Holy mother 10man nerf

[Deleted]

i can only bow to that post Dasani. Well written.

I think people should try and get better instead of asking the game to be less hard

[Dazzy]

The bottom line is, most people complaining in this thread have never touched heroic content (until 4 tiers later).

Everyone that did not need the nerfs is past all those bosses anyways. Anyone beating their heads against them, should have killed faster or gotten more organized.

[schmearcampain]

Sry the thing you linked is bullshit, over simplification : sure there are more mechanics as a whole, but you as a player don't need to know all of them.
On horridon for example, you just focus on your individual task and all is fine :

healers watch triple punture and dispell
dps nuke : bigg ad > small add > boss
tank : tank boss in front of door, bubble to clear stacks / swap at each door.
that. is. it.

Don't forget about assigning interrupts on the various poison dotters at door 2.
What to do/where to lead Horridon when you're charged.
Assigning which healers are responsible for dispelling at each door.
Deciding who is best able to spend 10 seconds channeling the orb.
Which tank can best handle which adds at each door.

etc. etc.

Look at your sig. Server first warlock? you can't see that maybe you're not the best person to even discuss what "normal" players should be capable of?

[Blacksmith Hammer Time]

My problem with this is that this is a problem exclusive to MMOs in general. If you buy Dark Souls, do you write a sternly worded letter to Namco demanding that the will of the people is for the game to be dumbed down? You play a hard game, you need to improve if you can't beat it. You don't need to be a master of the game to progress here.

Its the old fable of education that if a class is failing, its the teacher's fault

[Agony099]

The bottom line is, most people complaining in this thread have never touched heroic content (until 4 tiers later).

Everyone that did not need the nerfs is past all those bosses anyways. Anyone beating their heads against them, should have killed faster or gotten more organized.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ all of this

[Deleted]

So because i raid heroics i should have absolutely no input on anything else ?
The point is, the raiders in this thread who couldn't down horridon refuse to farm the gear / items / rep required
Some have beaten ToT in 490 gear, but they are very good players. average players will not manage that.

No, i don't think ToT normals should be clearable by totally casual players playing 2-4 hours per week and still in 489 gear. I think those players got LFR (which takes about that amount of time). I think they should try and improve themselves instead of asking the game to be toned down

[Blacksmith Hammer Time]

So because i raid heroics i should have absolutely no input on anything else ?
The point is, the raiders in this thread who couldn't down horridon refuse to farm the gear / items / rep required
Some have beaten ToT in 490 gear, but they are very good players. average players will not manage that.

No, i don't think ToT normals should be clearable by totally casual players playing 2-4 hours per week and still in 489 gear. I think those players got LFR (which takes about that amount of time). I think they should try and improve themselves instead of asking the game to be toned down

Or just stick to scenarios.

Warning; If you don't have anything to constructive to contribute to the thread, don't post. (Sonnillon)

[Deleted]

Or that, yes, heroic scenarios on the way, which are gonna be REALLY HURRRRRD guise !
But they will probably also refuse to farm scenarios, and just enter ToT and have their face melted again

[fhenrer]

I'm glad at least Eiffel remembers what LFR is for.

[Deleted]

Christ. Did you even read what I wrote? RAMPAGE ISN'T THE ISSUE. Our disc priest will power word barrier the first one. I'll aura mastery the second. Monk cooldowns (zen med? can't remember what he uses) will use the third. By then power word barrier will be back up. WE KNOW HOW TO FUCKING RAID. In fact that's exacly why we dismissed the blue strat because it's to much movement to much dps loss.

Being really spread out MAKES RAID HEALING INCREDIBLY TOUGH. Especially when the stupid fucking green shit on the ground HITS YOU ANYWAY even if you avoid it. Telling people to put cinders on the outside is great if they can get there fast enough before the debuff kills them and the edges are usually where the boss is facing and if anybody gets breathed on IT'S GOOD FUCKING GAME. Christ.

Heroic Bethilac was an easier fight. It's infuriating to be told the most basic raid tactics by people on this forum when I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS on all kinds of difficulties and all at levels of play. The problem with MEG is that it's all fucking easy until the 5th or 6th head then it becomes overwhelming like everything else in this instance. It's just to BUSY. I need to be able to actually stop and hardcast. Or I should go lvl a druid or resto shaman. I would kill for Spirtual Guidance.

Dude, i'm trying to help you because we killed it last week and our guild seem similar, and you're being agressive and refuse my help. Chill the f*** out, I was just trying to help you, jeez you seems frustrated, go punch a bag or something .
We killed it in 6 tries, i'd hardly say its a tough boss..

EDIT : Totally agree with Dasani, well said sir.

[fhenrer]

Another thing that I think has been failed to be mentioned is the fact that this tier of encounters has been designed to be mechanic check fights and not as heavy of a gear/dps check fights. If the fights are really getting to enrage your DPS are really doing things wrong. If you cant keep tanks and players alive until enrage again your healers are doing things wrong or your DPS are taking unneeded damage.

[Deleted]

My problem with this is that this is a problem exclusive to MMOs in general. If you buy Dark Souls, do you write a sternly worded letter to Namco demanding that the will of the people is for the game to be dumbed down? You play a hard game, you need to improve if you can't beat it. You don't need to be a master of the game to progress here.

Its the old fable of education that if a class is failing, its the teacher's fault

I think it has more to do with the subscription model.

If you want people to pay again next month, this month had better be playable.

When this month isn't playable, next month and the month after look to be in jeopardy and so the business and the designers bend to the feeedback they get from their customers. Even then, some MMO's don't respond in this way and rigidly stick to their original design schema - those MMO's don't have 10 million players though.

As for dark souls, if dark souls was a sub based MMO which had people play it at one difficulty level for 7 years and then ramped it up so they could no longer take part, you'd better believe there'd be QQ, and rightly so.

[Blacksmith Hammer Time]

I think it has more to do with the subscription model.

If you want people to pay again next month, this month had better be playable.

When this month isn't playable, next month and the month after look to be in jeopardy and so the business and the designers bend to the feeedback they get from their customers. Even then, some MMO's don't respond in this way and rigidly stick to their original design schema - those MMO's don't have 10 million players though.

As for dark souls, if dark souls was a sub based MMO which had people play it at one difficulty level for 7 years and then ramped it up so they could no longer take part, you'd better believe there'd be QQ, and rightly so.

Wrong, the game is playable. There is easily accessible pvp, scenarios, dungeons, challenge modes, and LFR for you. You are choosing to tackle the harder content. That makes you responsible for making sure you are skilled enough and that you surround yourself with people skilled enough. Nothing should give you the impression that normal mode raiding is for everybody. This is a mindset borne about over the past two expansions by quickening nerfs and easier skill thresholds.

And just to be clear, I don't think its a bad thing that they've made normal modes so easy. But people like you keep coming back and saying, "No, it has to be easier". And easier. And easier. That is literally what dungeons are: easy raids.

[fhenrer]

Injin if we're going to talk about subs then I hope you realize the majority of players DO NOT RAID NORMALS. So the majority of players are not affected at all by this. Its a small chunk that raids and a smaller chunk still that needed these nerfs. Also, the difficulty hasn't been ramped up that much.

[Blacksmith Hammer Time]

Injin if we're going to talk about subs then I hope you realize the majority of players DO NOT RAID NORMALS. So the majority of players are not affected at all by this. Its a small chunk that raids and a smaller chunk still that needed these nerfs. Also, the difficulty hasn't been ramped up that much.

Also, he should take note that sub numbers reached their pinnacle in this game during the end of BC -- Which is the hardest raiding tier this game has ever had. No group walked in and was like, "KALECGOS? NO PROB"

[Deleted]

Wrong, the game is playable. There is easily accessible pvp, scenarios, dungeons, challenge modes, and LFR for you. You are choosing to tackle the harder content. That makes you responsible for making sure you are skilled enough and that you surround yourself with people skilled enough. Nothing should give you the impression that normal mode raiding is for everybody. This is a mindset borne about over the past two expansions by quickening nerfs and easier skill thresholds.

I'm doing the content and enjoying it tremendously.

Currently at durumu, he will go down tomorrow and then onwards and upwards. My experience isn't relevent to this discussion, neither is yours. What matters is the 75% failure rate on boss 2 of 12 in the raider population at large.

The game isn't playable for the current playerbase. Blizzard either needs to nerf it (to keep subs up) or to teach people how to play as they level.

No one is saying that raiding should be for everyone, but raiding should definitely be for the people who have historically been raiding.

[Deleted]

Do you think people demanding the dumbing down of normals hasn't affected the difficulty of heroics? There's always a couple 'gimme' heroics now, god forbid the game alienate normal raids trying to dip their toes into heroics when they're not ready. Back the McDonalds ballpit with ye

There has been heroic loot pinata bosses since heroics got introduced, every tier has had them.

It's the same for any other kind of game, no game starts with it's most difficult challenge at the start, it goes from easy to hard.

[Deleted]

Also, he should take note that sub numbers reached their pinnacle in this game during the end of BC -- Which is the hardest raiding tier this game has ever had. No group walked in and was like, "KALECGOS? NO PROB"

Different times - in TBC 50% of players never even dinged 70. That's all been changed - since cata everyone gets rushed to endgame asap and then they need to be kept amused to keep the money rolling in.

[fhenrer]

Injin you are still ignoring the fact that the majority of the current player base has NOT even raided normals...

[Blacksmith Hammer Time]

I'm doing the content and enjoying it tremendously.

Currently at durumu, he will go down tomorrow and then onwards and upwards. My experience isn't relevent to this discussion, neither is yours. What matters is the 75% failure rate on boss 2 of 12 in the raider population at large.

The game isn't playable for the current playerbase. Blizzard either needs to nerf it (to keep subs up) or to teach people how to play as they level.

No one is saying that raiding should be for everyone, but raiding should definitely be for the people who have historically been raiding.

Those 75% of people need to research their classes a little bit. There is a percentage of elitist people who are amazing and raiders in general shouldn't be held to that standard, but they are not all of that 25%. These normal modes are not incredibly hard. The game does not need to be made easier elsewise those 75% will be the 75% again next tier.