Ghostcrawler: "Hunter's Eyes of the Beast was 'bloat'"

[melodramocracy]

Silencing shot/wyvern sting could be combined to sleep out of combat/silence in combat perhaps.

But then you lose the cc aspect of WS. Noooooooo :P

Scare beast I question if anyone ever uses that anymore.

Still useful in PvP here and there.

I'm expecting Aspects to be removed entirely any patch now. They already removed any real point to having them.

Personally, I thought aspects should have been reworked to be defensive skills.
Monkey - improved dodge/parry
Nature - improved nature resist
Have an improved arcane resist perhaps, frost or fire, etc. Make it so you swap situationally rather than just "run fast" and "more dps"

But the aspects are apparently considered bloat too, so figure they'll remove another fact of hunter identity.

In the end, players will get what they're asking for and we'll have about 4 buttons in our rotation and a handful of situational abilities. Then the hunter class will be labeled as "boring" with "not enough skills/choices in combat."

I wouldn't mind another few aspects, or Nature to come back new and improved somehow. Monkey and fox could have been better, but at least both tried to make you make decisions in-game, which was never a bad thing.

I don't think we need less buttons, really. If there's anything to NOT borrow from GW2, it's the number of combat skills

[xanzul]

Repeat rotations. Perform. Obey. Creativity will not be tolerated.

Seriously? Because it is impossible to have fun be creative with the existing hunter abilities and glyphs we have now. Right. Ok then.

[Gimlix]

Argh i forgot about that ability!
Now i do wish to let it return, or atleast as a glyph!

[vindicatorx]

I honestly used it once I think I pretty much didn't know it was gone till you guys mentioned it. I don't care if it comes back or not

[xanzul]

Calling random stuff bloat is one of Ghostcrawler's really annoying justifications for taking stuff out the game, but it's not nearly as annoying as him telling me what is fun and isn't. He will taking Levitate off my priest next because it doesn't do anything except allow me to have a little fun (and occasionally save my life from a nasty shaman at lumber mill) because it's "bloat".

And putting words in GC's mouth is one of the most annoying traits of mindless QQers.

[xanzul]

No, really I don't. Both are largely useless spells with small windows of having some utility but were largely used by players to just muck about. Most importantly, both were spells that you could either have on your action bar or not and not effect your DPS/healing performance one iota. See the difference? I don't.

It is irrelevant that players can choose not to put this on their action bars the entire point is that GC is looking at hunters as a whole whereas the QQers are being myopic as usual and only looking at this one singular ability.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 02:51 PM ----------

I see. So basically, the only reason to play WoW now is to have the highest DPS? I thought it was to have fun? Eyes of the Beast was fun, which is the whole point. They were silly to remove it for no reason. You're right, it added nothing for those who didn't care for it, but it didn't remove anything either. It was beneficial for people who did care and have fun with it.


People should learn to care less for their massive DPS-peen and more for the actual enjoyment they get out of a game. It's a game, a hobby; not a sport.

Again lets not pretend there are no fun abilities left in game. There is more to the hunter class than this one singular ability and this irrational focus on it suddenly is rather suspicious. Seriously how many of you even gave this ability a second thought much less actually used it regularly? I can't help but think this is whining for the sake of whining.

[Peacemoon]

Different opinions are different. Imagine that. While you may disagree with GC's reasoning his opinion is just as valid as yours.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 02:16 PM ----------



There is plenty of justification for it and let's not pretend there aren't significantly more fun abilities like this than there are that have been removed. Hunters were not defined by this ability and I seriously don't even understand what the big deal is when the class already has more than enough fun abilities and plays distinctly differently from the other classes. Seems as though people are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find something to complain about.

The problem with GC is he throws around terms and doesn't given any precise definition of them, such as 'bloat'. Realise it works in his favour to leave such terms ambiguous because then he can pick and choose as to where they apply with little ability for us to scrutinize the decision making process. We can all guess what bloat is about, but if EotB falls under that category, then a lot of fun and nifty class skills will be up for the chop as well.

Now you've said you don't understand why people cared so strongly about EotB, well feel free to indulge in reading this thread because there are plenty of examples. As others have said, no one has bemoaned the culling of certain hunter aspects, which is what I would call 'real bloat'.

[xanzul]

What the fucks the point of Mind Vision then? Everybody loved Eyes of the Beast. There wasn't a single reasonable reason to remove it.

Again different opinions are different. While you may disagree GC did give a reasonable argument as to why it was removed.

[Peacemoon]

It is irrelevant that players can choose not to put this on their action bars the entire point is that GC is looking at hunters as a whole whereas the QQers are being myopic as usual and only looking at this one singular ability.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 02:51 PM ----------



Again lets not pretend there are no fun abilities left in game. There is more to the hunter class than this one singular ability and this irrational focus on it suddenly is rather suspicious. Seriously how many of you even gave this ability a second thought much less actually used it regularly? I can't help but think this is whining for the sake of whining.

Disagreeing with GC does not make people 'QQers'...is this the level of debate we're having, come on...

Why don't you tell us why you think removing Eyes of the Beast from the Hunter class was such a worthwhile thing for the Devs to do? And how effective it has been at removing Hunter bloat?

[xanzul]

I agree with the OP. I don't want to see fun unique stuff from each class get removed as "bloat"

And yet this isn't actually happening. More fun abilities and glyphs have been added to the game since Mop went live than there are that have been removed. The sky isn't falling.

[Urti]

No but it still took up UI space for a skill that never got used.

What was its use? The only thing mentioned was larking around in cities, is that truly it?

Exploration comes to mind pretty quick. I remember lots of people using it on flying pets to scout around areas normally inaccesable. Also I seem to remember something about using it with eagle eye.

[xanzul]

ghostcrawler always talks about stuff he has no clue about how is he even still in his job of lead systems guy i do not know for what he has done to wow over the years and his poor descisions he should have been fired many years ago

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:11 PM ----------

why not just remove everything from the game thats fun change all the armor to bussiness suits and just amke the game staring at blizz shares, blizzard waant all our money and also suck all the fun out of wow while there at it

Blizzard is hiring. Why don't you apply and show them how its done?

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 02:59 PM ----------

This shows once again that Blizzard does not deserve to decide the fate of the universe Warcraft ... they only serve to betray the followers of their games and themselves...

Yes to the return of the Hunter's Eyes of the Beast ability! Immediately!

With all due respect Blizzard has every right to make decisions for their own game. Unless you become a majority shareholder of ATVI you don't get to call the shots.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:00 PM ----------

So what if there's bloat? Does every skill need to be purely practical and healing/DPS/etc related? Why can't there be a few fun, largely cosmetic skills?

Am I missing something here? Did the removal of this one single ability also remove all the other fun abilities?

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:02 PM ----------

GC and friends have a very clear view on anything that doesn't directly apply to PVE or PVP content. They aren't even making April Fools jokes anymore because it's a waste of time to develop. This kind of attitude depresses me.

"It's not useful, REMOVE IT"

I could make a list of fun spells and effects that had no impact on gameplay that were removed and I miss if I wanted to.

The latest casualty was path of blossoms.

GC and the developers aren't responsible for web content so give it a fucking rest already. As for removing fun abilities again it needs to be pointed out more fun abilities have been added to the game than have been removed.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:06 PM ----------

Why does it need to have some kind of decent use? Remember when games were fun, and developers gave you things that made it more fun?

Well lets just thrown in dozens of fun spells for every class. I mean it is fun right? It can't possibly hurt the game right?

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:07 PM ----------

Just because it wasn't fun for you doesn't mean they should remove the ability all together. Lots of people found it fun, some people would even say useful in certain circumstances. The point is that its an ability that didn't do anything for Hunters but it also didn't hurt us. You could use it or not. It didn't have to sit in your UI and could be completely ignored like Feed Pet is ignored by most people today. Its like Mind Vision on a priest or Far Sight, or any of those useless glyph abilities like Confession.

They should bring it back as a minor glyph; hopefully exactly like it use to be and not a gimped version where you have to be at a certain range from your pet to use it. If they plan on bringing it back with a Mind Control nerf in range, then I wont care.

And just because it was fun for you doesn't mean they should keep it. It goes both ways.

[Prokne]

When they had the class discussions on the Blizzard forums during the MoP beta they asked what abilities we dont use as hunters and other things like rotation and quality of life. Im pretty sure most people said they never use the nature protect aspect, feed pet, eagle eye and eyes of the beast. They took out 2 of those and for some reason left eagle eye and feed pet, probably for the "I love pets" RP hunters(which is what eyes was good for too).

The problem is that they added even more abilities than they took away and the ones they took away we never used. And now they are thinking of cutting signature abilities like rapid fire and readiness. They should tone down all the new crap they added like the T5 talents. That tier needs a passive option like a no pet talent. I could also do without stampede. There are too many things that screw up your pet and having a huge portion of our burst and subsequently our dps because its crap when we arent using CDs is very annoying.

I would be satisfied if they made stampede a bm only ability and rapid fire/readiness mm only abilities. Survival can have readiness too, its not hard to use. Add in a pet free talent and a lot of the PvE bloat is gone.

[xanzul]

The problem with GC is he throws around terms and doesn't given any precise definition of them, such as 'bloat'. Realise it works in his favour to leave such terms ambiguous because then he can pick and choose as to where they apply with little ability for us to scrutinize the decision making process. We can all guess what bloat is about, but if EotB falls under that category, then a lot of fun and nifty class skills will be up for the chop as well.

Now you've said you don't understand why people cared so strongly about EotB, well feel free to indulge in reading this thread because there are plenty of examples. As others have said, no one has bemoaned the culling of certain hunter aspects, which is what I would call 'real bloat'.

Again GC didn't use the term bloat, a player did. Take it up with him.

---------- Post added 2013-04-11 at 03:11 PM ----------

Disagreeing with GC does not make people 'QQers'...is this the level of debate we're having, come on...

Why don't you tell us why you think removing Eyes of the Beast from the Hunter class was such a worthwhile thing for the Devs to do? And how effective it has been at removing Hunter bloat?

Disagreement isn't QQing you are right on that but what is QQing is seeing GC say something and immediately start throwing temper tantrums and refusing to acknowledge he provided a reasonable argument for the change.

[Faerilea]

I have fond memories of hiding in a bush in WSG while using that spell. It was hilarious

[Crym]

"Bloat" should never be used to describe an ability that would never be used when reaction time matters.

[Kantoro]

You can keep it if you can think of a single decent use for it.

Hunters have way too many skills to use as it is, its a hot key nightmare.

See this comment is dumb. Just becuz a skill isn't part of a dps rotation does not make it bloat. If you don't wanna put it on your hotbar then fucking don't.

[Faroth]

But then you lose the cc aspect of WS. Noooooooo :P

Yeah, and come to think of it, aren't wyvern and silencing on the same tier, so it's a "one or the other" so that was probably a bad example.

Still useful in PvP here and there.

Thought that might be the case, but probably can be argued it's not a necessity to keep, though it's also one you only need up if you particularly find it useful, so probably not true bloat.

I wouldn't mind another few aspects, or Nature to come back new and improved somehow. Monkey and fox could have been better, but at least both tried to make you make decisions in-game, which was never a bad thing.

I don't think we need less buttons, really. If there's anything to NOT borrow from GW2, it's the number of combat skills

I agree. WoW does have a lot and can feel a little overwhelming, but having a lot of abilities that don't frequently need to be used or are optional isn't necessarily bad.
I got bored with only 2 primary abilities in GW2 and 2 being somewhat situational.

[Sillicis]

Eye of Killrog, not a DPS increase either. Remove from the game.
Healers dont do damage either, bloat and remove from the game.

I want my eyes of the beast back!
/beg

[TJ]

That spell was awesome fun, removing it was stupid. I mean seriously, it wasn't doing any harm, why remove it?