SoI and Attonement

[nerfproof]

If you pick Solace and Insanity to replace Holy Fire will the new spell work with Attonement?

[roflwaffle]

it states in the spell that it atonement heals ...

[blargh312]

It's actually not Atonement healing, it does its own heal called Power Word: Solace but it's the same healing you'd get from Holy Fire Atonement.

[isuridedes]

As blargh312 clarified; the spell itself does not interact with Atonement in any fashion. What it DOES do though, is replicate the effects of Atonement. This allows it to operate the same for Holy and Discipline Priests. If you're thinking of picking it up for the mana benefits though, I believe that the Shadowfiend talent is still mathematically superior.

[Deleted]

If you're thinking of picking it up for the mana benefits though, I believe that the Shadowfiend talent is still mathematically superior.

Used close to cd, solace yields more mana than mindbender, since you regain shadowfiend. It is more fiddly and sometimes using it on cd might be annoying, but methematically, it is better mana regen.

[Noradin]

Used close to cd, solace yields more mana than mindbender, since you regain shadowfiend. It is more fiddly and sometimes using it on cd might be annoying, but methematically, it is better mana regen.

This assumes you would use Holy Fire close to on CD for its healing and damage if you were not to take SoI. Which is resonable, since you should do so as long as there is anything to heal and/or damage around outside of possible short periods of time where you are overwhelmed by AoE damage.
Just to give an explanation on why SoI is more efficent in terms of mana than mindbender, since this part is easily missed in calculations.

[Deleted]

Worth mentioning that Solace is significantly better than mindbender if you use it properly (every 10 sec), and that you need to delay it by huge amounts (we're talking close to 10 seconds, each cast) for mindbender to pull ahead. Solace is really the only viable option for disc right now (for holy it's a bit more interesting).

[jason1975]

Worth mentioning that Solace is significantly better than mindbender if you use it properly (every 10 sec), and that you need to delay it by huge amounts (we're talking close to 10 seconds, each cast) for mindbender to pull ahead. Solace is really the only viable option for disc right now (for holy it's a bit more interesting).

While this is correct, I'm finding the restore mana cycle to be a bit difficult to work with in my 10 man. With mindbender, I'm used to a nice chunk of mana coming back to me every minute. With Solace, it's more of a steady dribble.

Thus for big burst healing cycles, it can feel like I'm running near empty at times. Also, since I heal with a Holy priest, I feel like I'm missing out on a chunk of mana when she drops HoH (I usually drop my mindbender at the same time).

I've bounced back and forth between Mindbender and Solace. Even though Solace may give some extra mana, I've decided to stick with Mindbender because I feel like I have greater control over the ebb and flow of my mana during burst healing periods. (As in . . CD's, AA, burst burst burst burst burst, drop mindbender, burst burst, back to mana neutral healing pattern). Note I'm not doing HC modes.

EDIT: Could be that I feel like I'm swimming in mana for the beginning period of most fights (so it devalues Solace and shadowfiend because they'd just produce mana beyond the 300k cap), then as the later phases go on the damage gets significantly higher/faster. That's where I feel like I love my mindbender. It could be that I need to move some of my spirit to Int, but then I feel like I'm starving at the end of the fight. So I use mindbender instead and it seems to work out really well.

[Deleted]

I understand what you are feeling, but that's just you not being used to the way solace works. It will provide you with more mana in every fight, period. Even if you chain HoH's with every mindbender that doesn't bring it close to solace, and if we're just talking one HoH it benefits solace more (since one sf>one mb). That being said, if you are just doing normals you'll be fine either way (hell, you could probably do all hcs with mindbender as well, just means that you need a little more spirit/gear), but be aware of the fact that you are gimping yourself.

EDIT: Could be that I feel like I'm swimming in mana for the beginning period of most fights (so it devalues Solace and shadowfiend because they'd just produce mana beyond the 300k cap), then as the later phases go on the damage gets significantly higher/faster. That's where I feel like I love my mindbender. It could be that I need to move some of my spirit to Int, but then I feel like I'm starving at the end of the fight. So I use mindbender instead and it seems to work out really well.

Still doesn't matter, once your mana bar moves below 100% solace is superior to mindbender (unless you for lulz decided to pop your sf at 100% mana, which doesn't make any sense).

[Darkener]

They really need to get rid of the "facing" requirement that Solace has. It's hard enough to pop it every 10 seconds as it is without you having to also be facing the boss/target.

[Deleted]

They really need to get rid of the "facing" requirement that Solace has. It's hard enough to pop it every 10 seconds as it is without you having to also be facing the boss/target.

Don't see a reason why you wouldn't be facing the boss, as disc a big chunk of your healing is atonement which requires you to be facing it the entire time. And if you're holy I don't think Solace is worth it, but even so you should always face the boss tbh.

[rdellarocco]

If you were asking about the smite glyph, yes it does. The dot does increase the dmg from smite. It's the best option because it takes out the mana tax of Holy Fire. It is less dps than mindbender, but like they said, mathematically more mana. I would recommend using it. Even with healing with a holy priest (2 priests in a raid? O.o) it would yield more mana. I 100% understand about getting used to it, but honestly once you do, it's well worth it. I didn't like it at first, but once I got used to it, its really nice.

[blargh312]

While this is correct, I'm finding the restore mana cycle to be a bit difficult to work with in my 10 man. With mindbender, I'm used to a nice chunk of mana coming back to me every minute. With Solace, it's more of a steady dribble.

Thus for big burst healing cycles, it can feel like I'm running near empty at times. Also, since I heal with a Holy priest, I feel like I'm missing out on a chunk of mana when she drops HoH (I usually drop my mindbender at the same time).

I've bounced back and forth between Mindbender and Solace. Even though Solace may give some extra mana, I've decided to stick with Mindbender because I feel like I have greater control over the ebb and flow of my mana during burst healing periods. (As in . . CD's, AA, burst burst burst burst burst, drop mindbender, burst burst, back to mana neutral healing pattern). Note I'm not doing HC modes.

EDIT: Could be that I feel like I'm swimming in mana for the beginning period of most fights (so it devalues Solace and shadowfiend because they'd just produce mana beyond the 300k cap), then as the later phases go on the damage gets significantly higher/faster. That's where I feel like I love my mindbender. It could be that I need to move some of my spirit to Int, but then I feel like I'm starving at the end of the fight. So I use mindbender instead and it seems to work out really well.

Everything in this post seems completely backward. Fiend should be better for mana in burst healing phases as it returns a bigger chunk of mana, and using solace + fiend correctly would allow you start moving out of spirit and into other stats more easily than mindbender would. Honestly it just sounds like you need to learn to time your fiend better.

[zoefschildpad]

How does this work? Just reading the talents solace restores 6% mana every minute when used on cooldown, mindbender seems to restore about 20% Am I reading things wrong? How do the maths work here?

[Deleted]

How does this work? Just reading the talents solace restores 6% mana every minute when used on cooldown, mindbender seems to restore about 20% Am I reading things wrong? How do the maths work here?

As disc holy fire is a spell that is used on cooldown, a spell that costs 5.4k mana. With Solace instead of spending that 5.4k mana you gain 3k mana, so you actually save/gain 8.4k mana in total, 8.4k x 5 (realistic situation) every minute. Also, when dropping mindbender you get shadowfiend in it's place.

Sorry for the bad attempts at math but what I'm getting at is that you need to take the mana cost of HF in consideration, and also that you get shadowfiend instead.

[zoefschildpad]

As disc holy fire is a spell that is used on cooldown, a spell that costs 5.4k mana. With Solace instead of spending that 5.4k mana you gain 3k mana, so you actually save/gain 8.4k mana in total, 8.4k x 5 (realistic situation) every minute. Also, when dropping manabender you get shadowfiend in it's place.

Sorry for the bad attempts at math but what I'm getting at is that you need to take the mana cost of HF in consideration, and also that you get shadowfiend instead.

Aaah, I hadn't thought of that, thanks.
I'll let our disc priest know, cause I think I may have talked him out of taking the talent last raid...