Gay marriage voted down in Oklahoma

[Itisamuh]

Just less than 6 months ago it was "the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law" and that was it. I don't see the reason to change the meaning of a word or anything just because a small group of people think they deserve the same word. Keep the tax breaks, be equal, name it something else, that isn't separate but equal, that's just equal.

Edit: This thread is already going the same "I'm for gay marriage, therefore you're wrong no matter if you think we deserve the same rights or completely disagree with us we're going to argue with you and call you a bad person who hates gay people" route so I'm gone. Enjoy bickering, everyone, that's going to change everything and everyone's mind.

I'm with this person. If it has to be recognized at all (I'm not convinced it does, but whatever) then name it something else.

Even if you're pro gay though, there's no reason to be upset here. Democracy was at work, and the voting didn't go your way this time.

[MaximusRex]

84-0 interesting. I wonder who even proposed it if it had no support.

The vote for was as an affirmation of DOMA, that marriage is between 1 man and one woman. 12 legislators walked out instead of voting as a form a protest.

[Themius]

Not to be too whiny about it, but that's one thing that sure seems a lot easier for women.

It is lol. I have gotten into plenty an arguments with gays and straights about bisexuals, usually the focus is always on the men, rarely the women.

[gunner_recall]

It will take a few decades for somewhere like Oklahoma to crawl out of the deep religious roots it has to even be accepting of such state-wide. That and other parts of the Bible-belt make me face palm sometimes.

As someone from Oklahoma, I'm going to tell you that no, you're wrong.

Our politicians are a different story but the actual people here? I can tell you that 9/10 support gay marriage. Maybe you should think before you lump everyone into one group.

[Elegiac]

I'm with this person. If it has to be recognized at all (I'm not convinced it does, but whatever) then name it something else.

Even if you're pro gay though, there's no reason to be upset here. Democracy was at work, and the voting didn't go your way this time.

So if we decided to vote away your protection from cruel and unusual punishment, you'd be perfectly alright with that, yes?

[Shynra]

I suppose you've sorted throughout all of the ''garbage'' and therefore you had sources to back your claims, but it seems like you don't.

You're the one who said it's a garbage notion that it is a choice, so you know, it'd only be logical for YOU to prove it why it is garbage.
Asking for a simple study on it isn't much, is it?

as I said, it's not that I even doubt you, I just want a compelling argument.

---------- Post added 2013-04-23 at 11:45 PM ----------



It does because that's exactly what it is.

Read this: http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigene..._homosexuality

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratern...al_orientation

And this: http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-g...old-hypothesis

It is a fallacy to assume that just because a genetic explanation has not been definitively found, it has to be a choice. Start with the articles on epigenetics. If you want more, google for them.

[RaoBurning]

Just less than 6 months ago it was "the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law" and that was it. I don't see the reason to change the meaning of a word or anything just because a small group of people think they deserve the same word. Keep the tax breaks, be equal, name it something else, that isn't separate but equal, that's just equal.

Edit: This thread is already going the same "I'm for gay marriage, therefore you're wrong no matter if you think we deserve the same rights or completely disagree with us we're going to argue with you and call you a bad person who hates gay people" route so I'm gone. Enjoy bickering, everyone, that's going to change everything and everyone's mind.

You can have all the water you want, as long as it's not from my fountain.

Am I doin' it right?

[Anjerith]

It will take a few decades for somewhere like Oklahoma to crawl out of the deep religious roots it has to even be accepting of such state-wide. That and other parts of the Bible-belt make me face palm sometimes.

This is moronic, there are PLENTY of gays in Oklahoma. Just because the elected officials of the majority do not mindlessly follow along with an idea does not mean that you should throw "dah dats deh bahble belt" mentality labels all over the state.

If it wasn't passed, it wasn't passed. It has nothing to do with the location of the state. Oklahoma City is about 20 minutes from me, and I will easily pass at least three gay bars in under thirty minutes. Just because the idea of Gay Marriage isn't happening doesn't mean that you can't be perfectly fine living your lifestyle out there.

[Rommon64]

So if we decided to vote away your protection from cruel and unusual punishment, you'd be perfectly alright with that, yes?

As long as you call it something different :P

[zito]

I'm with this person. If it has to be recognized at all (I'm not convinced it does, but whatever) then name it something else.

If it is named something else but means the exactly the same thing as marriage then by default it is marriage.

Making the whole thing redundant.

[smelltheglove]

As someone from Oklahoma, I'm going to tell you that no, you're wrong.

Our politicians are a different story but the actual people here? I can tell you that 9/10 support gay marriage. Maybe you should think before you lump everyone into one group.

9/10 in your neighborhood or the state? if you say state im calling bullshit - ive been there plenty. havent met a single person around ada that supported gay marriage, gonna go out on a limb and say they arent just a freak pocket of gay haters

[Belize]

So, I'm the same as a large group of people that had a blind hatred for people of a different race because I don't agree with it? I don't hate gay people, I'm not homophobic (That means scared of gays, definitely not scared of them) and I think they deserve a civil union that gives them the same tax breaks and everything, I just don't want it to be called "marriage" is all. They're still equal to me and I have no hard feelings toward them, I just don't agree with the wording.

Yeah, because in the end, who freaking cares what the wording is, since they're not getting their rights to be "other word than married" married. Doesn't matter why you're against it, you're still against them being MARRIED. We're not going to invent another word just because it upsets some people, that's pretty derogatory.

Might be an extreme example, but it'd be like saying "I don't care if African Americans get their rights, I just don't like them being referred to as people. We should make up a synonym for people just for them". Doesn't make everyone happy at all.

[Trassk]

I say to people who use political power to prevent equality for gays the same thing I would to those who worked to prevnt equality to black people 40 years before. You may think what you do is based on rational thought, but what you do is though irrational means.

And yes, you are the same class of people that stood outside political offices and protested to black people's right to marry or vote. Your exactly the same.

[Sam the Wiser]

9/10 in your neighborhood or the state? if you say state im calling bullshit - ive been there plenty. havent met a single person around ada that supported gay marriage, gonna go out on a limb and say they arent just a freak pocket of gay haters

This is the internet...statistical information shouldn't be taken to serious.

[belfpala]

There isn't a coherent argument against gay marriage that would stand up to constitutional scrutiny other than, "I don't like it."

Any argument that has its basis completely in "I don't like it" is suspect.

[smelltheglove]

This is the internet...statistical information shouldn't be taken to serious.

yeah, i know, lol. id just appreciate more realistic numbers. at least TRY to make it sound good

[MaximusRex]

I'm with this person. If it has to be recognized at all (I'm not convinced it does, but whatever) then name it something else.

Even if you're pro gay though, there's no reason to be upset here. Democracy was at work, and the voting didn't go your way this time.

SCOTUS has already ruled separate but equal isn't. This is why we don't have segregation anymore. And "democracy in action" is a terrible excuse for violation of ones rights. Slavery was democracy in action, as was segregation, Jim Crow Laws, bans on interracial marriage, and I'm sure plenty of other wonderful things we hopefully all find repugnant today.

[Trassk]

There isn't a coherent argument against gay marriage other than, "I don't like it."

Any argument that has its basis completely in "I don't like it" is suspect.

Thats all this is. What could be a system to allow two people to legally find happiness together, is prevented just because some people don't understand it, don't rationalize it, and so want to prevent these people having the same rights they take for granted.

[Rukentuts]

Um, chadwix, your MPR link doesn't work. I also don't see any of this MN shit on the Star Trib.

Please stop posting lies about my state, kthx.

[Shynra]

I say to people who use political power to prevent equality for gays the same thing I would to those who worked to prevnt equality to black people 40 years before. You may think what you do is based on rational thought, but what you do is though irrational means.

And yes, you are the same class of people that stood outside political offices and protested to black people's right to marry or vote. Your exactly the same.

Indeed.

Denying homosexuals the same rights that others enjoy because of their inborn nature (because that is what homosexuality is) is no different than denying them to colored folks.

Also, I fail to see why 'choice' is often made out to be a relevant factor. Even if somebody should choose to be gay, they should still be able to enjoy the same rights as everyone else.