It's not Nostalgia.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I can't disagree with that because you're completely right. They made financial decisions that would reflect the unfortunate majority of their playerbase and it's done very well for them. Unfortunately that's left the people who sought out Warcraft for its MMORPG aspect feeling dissatisfied. We're on the same page there.

Thats the problem here. Thats why this thread exists. Because Blizzard turned their back on a type of gamer and player that probable helped them get to where they are. I love many of the changes they have made, but that doesn't mean all. I was a Pally in Vanilla. Only being allowed to buff and rez was pretty lame. I could tank some dungeons and 10 mans, which was fun enough. Class changes in general are great. Technical changes are great. But when the whole point of leveling is to "get through it as fast as possible with no bumps" .. you have to wonder how GOOD of a change that really is for the game.

[Otimus]

How is that raiding? It's completely different experience. Are you just being jealous that people can see the same dungeon without investing countless hours into it? Think about it this way: Blizzard themselves don't want to waste money designing content that most of their players won't be able to see.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:38 PM ----------



You just argued with me yourself 20 minutes ago that immersion is completely subjective! Oh, right, goldfish memory.

"Blizzard themselves don't want to waste money designing content that most of their players won't be able to see."

Blizzard has even outright freaking said that LFR makes it a whole lot easier to justify huge budgets for raids now. They've said what you've said, too.

Many people on this forum have repeated it. I've repeated. Over and over and over and over.

No matter WHAT you do, no one will listen.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How is that raiding? It's completely different experience. Are you just being jealous that people can see the same dungeon without investing countless hours into it? Think about it this way: Blizzard themselves don't want to waste money designing content that most of their players won't be able to see.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:38 PM ----------



You just argued with me yourself 20 minutes ago that immersion is completely subjective! Oh, right, goldfish memory.

Subjective =/= vague.

[namelessone]

Thats the problem here. Thats why this thread exists. Because Blizzard turned their back on a type of gamer and player that probable helped them get to where they are.

Uhhh, again, wrong. The kind of player who helped them get where they are (10 million subs) is CASUAL GAMER. Someone's mom. Someone's secretary. Someone who doesn't even know these forums exist. This is exactly why WoW is MILLIONS ahead of all other competition, because they don't appeal to the hardcore gamers. Never did. From the very beginning they pushed themselves as casual MMO.

EDIT: It's just that now they push a bit harder.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

"Blizzard themselves don't want to waste money designing content that most of their players won't be able to see."

Blizzard has even outright freaking said that LFR makes it a whole lot easier to justify huge budgets for raids now. They've said what you've said, too.

Many people on this forum have repeated it. I've repeated. Over and over and over and over.

No matter WHAT you do, no one will listen.

I don't get your point here. I haven;t read anything recently that has said "lfr should be taken out."

[Termak]

There has been many many nice changes to quality of life but the flying mounts and flightpoints almost everywhere have shrunk the world way too much and stopped almost all worldpvp

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Uhhh, again, wrong. The kind of player who helped them get where they are (10 million subs) is CASUAL GAMER. Someone's mom. Someone's secretary. Someone who doesn't even know these forums exist. This is exactly why WoW is MILLIONS ahead of all other competition, because they don't appeal to the hardcore gamers. Never did. From the very beginning they pushed themselves as casual MMO.

EDIT: It's just that now they push a bit harder.

I don't agree. I don't think many moms were playing during Vanilla. Even if there was 1 or a million moms, you can't prove what you said.

You're right, it was casual compared to EQ, and thats fine. But that doesn't mean every xpac should get more and more casual, more and more SOLO ARCADE.

Why play a multiplayer game if you don't want to play with others?

Whats even more ironic is how people in this thread say things like "you elitist hardocres need to get over it, Vanilla is gone" which implies the more hardcore players of Vanilla should get over how MoP currently is being ran.

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:50 PM ----------

Old talent trees:
YOU ARE SPECCED 51/9/1 AND NOT 51/10/0?!?? ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED?!?!? (The answer is yes.)

New talent trees:
Now it takes more than a calculator and basic math to figure out the best talent (if you even can).

I disagree, most talents have a "best of" even as Blizzard constantly buff and nerfs things. There are still many many many "must haves."

---------- Post added 2013-04-26 at 09:51 PM ----------

There has been many many nice changes to quality of life but the flying mounts and flightpoints almost everywhere have shrunk the world way too much and stopped almost all worldpvp

Agree. There are 3-4 FPs in Westfall? Really?

[Galbrei]

That picture with the happy group of friends and a dancing orc in front of a Meeting Stone reminds me of my maths book when I was a kid. It's cover showed people having fun with maths and yet, somehow I never had fun with maths...

[Osmeric]

You can still find raiders with no LK kill or Ulduar kill............dang near every raider has beaten the joke that is Dragon Soul.

But Cataclysm != T13.

[Morbownz]

Pointless trying to find common ground in this type of thread, but, I just can't help myself...

Would you prefer this MMORPG "Project Titan" to (assuming you raid) be more like MoP (LFR, Dailies, LFD, from 1 to level Cap in 1 day through easily forgettable quests built for speed and convenience) or would you prefer it to be more like Vanilla WoW and have the game blossom over the years until it suits the more casual player base and switches to convenience?

[Paulosio]

They also gave better rewards for effort in general. Sitting in Org and pushing QUEUE, then half assing your way through dungeons isn't effort in the slightest.[COLOR="red"]

Either was it effort to sit in Org while waiting for a summon to get to your dungeon which is exactly what most people used to do. I clearly remember in WOTLK before the dungeon finder was added that i'd often join a dungeon group as the 5th player and yet i'd always be the 1st to the dungeon and have to use the summoning stone to summon people.

I also remember playing in Vanilla dungeons when someone would either leave or be removed from the group part way through and then often having to wait over an hour to get moving again... Oh yes those were the days and I sure miss them. Hanging around spamming LFG chat (till it got removed and you actually had to travel all the way to a city to LFM) trying to find a player and then having to wait forever for them to arrive.... and in that time having all the dungeon trash respawn and have to reclear it. Ye the old days were so much better.

If you wanted to do a dungeon in the early hours pre dungeon finder your chances were virtually zero as it was impossible to find players to join.

I normally like to do things while i'm in a que. It allows me to get more done. After LFG chat was removed the only way of finding instance groups was to be in a city.... Now with the dungeon finder I can be doing my tiller's, questing, farming or whatever I choose while waiting for my dungeon. If some people choose to waste their time afking in cities while waiting for their ques then that's their problem and not the fault of the game or the developers.

[melodramocracy]

Time =/= effort. WoW used to give bigger rewards for time investment, that is true. Whether it's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion.

WoW still gives the big rewards for time investment, the catch is that Blizzard gets to meter that time out for you as they deem appropriate (see: rep, valor, honor, conquest point acquisition, etc). That may cloud some folks view of things.

[HeedmySpeed]

I always read that LFR is for the majority. The majority want it, it's staying.

Well I'm sorry but the majority isn't always right. Right now people are bitching left and right about LFR drops.
In game and the forums.
What the majority really want is loot on demand. If Blizzard gave in to this what do you think would happen? It's the same reason they're NOT giving in. Because they'll be left unsatisfied with their gear and clamor for more.

It's like a child who wants sweets and sugar all the time. If you let them have it they'll get sick, if you keep it from them they bitch and moan.

[melodramocracy]

And for the record, by definition of the word, what we're talking about here IS nostalgia.

The problem is that many associate nostalgia with a level of delusion, which is extremely inaccurate, because it implies that all new changes are, in fact, improvements (also incorrect).

You can extend this line of thinking far beyond video games as well.

[Monkiy]

Reminiscing about past content because you enjoyed it more than current content is nostalgia.

Being nostalgic about something doesn't invalidate your point or opinion.

/thread

[worsthitmanNa]

I always read that LFR is for the majority. The majority want it, it's staying.

Well I'm sorry but the majority isn't always right. Right now people are bitching left and right about LFR drops.
In game and the forums.
What the majority really want is loot on demand. If Blizzard gave in to this what do you think would happen? It's the same reason they're NOT giving in. Because they'll be left unsatisfied with their gear and clamor for more.

It's like a child who wants sweets and sugar all the time. If you let them have it they'll get sick, if you keep it from them they bitch and moan.

Maybe they just want those drops so they can stop doing mindless crap and have more free time to raid normal or player vs player. Gear should honestly come from a point system like conquest gear. It makes no sense that I could run ICC for 2 months but only get 1 upgrade. Which got me sat it was stupid.

[Monkiy]

Maybe they just want those drops so they can stop doing mindless crap and have more free time to raid normal or player vs player. Gear should honestly come from a point system like conquest gear. It makes no sense that I could run ICC for 2 months but only get 1 upgrade. Which got me sat it was stupid.

Unfortunately, that probably isn't how it'll go. Once they have all their drops they wont have anything to do anymore. That will lead to complaints about not having enough content, etc. Gearing needs to be a long term process, consisting of at least several weeks, otherwise it's trite and boring.

[Golden]

I always read that LFR is for the majority. The majority want it, it's staying.

Well I'm sorry but the majority isn't always right.

Apparently, Blizzard doesn't agree with you.

"Back in vanilla, a lot of our players were content just to level characters. just leveling was a huge commitment. In later expansions, even though players reached max level pretty quickly, they could still go back and level an alt. But even if you love alts, there are only so many you are willing to level before you're kind of done with it. LK brought achievements, which again provided some amount of content for a lot of players, but just adding new achievements only provides so much additional content. So in Cataclysm and MoP we decided to bring a lot of players into raiding, which is one of the most epic and rewarding experiences in WoW. It was a pretty successful endeavor." - Blizzard

[Duronos]

Apparently, Blizzard doesn't agree with you.

"Back in vanilla, a lot of our players were content just to level characters. just leveling was a huge commitment. In later expansions, even though players reached max level pretty quickly, they could still go back and level an alt. But even if you love alts, there are only so many you are willing to level before you're kind of done with it. LK brought achievements, which again provided some amount of content for a lot of players, but just adding new achievements only provides so much additional content. So in Cataclysm and MoP we decided to bring a lot of players into raiding, which is one of the most epic and rewarding experiences in WoW. It was a pretty successful endeavor." - Blizzard

Only reason Blizzard is saying that is because they have to agree with what they are doing to WoW. If they were to say "Yeah we know it sucks but aren't doing anything about it", then all hell would break loose, you can't say you disagree with your own moves as a business all the time. Whether Blizzard agrees or not that happens in a board room meeting.

[Deleted]

Only reason Blizzard is saying that is because they have to agree with what they are doing to WoW. If they were to say "Yeah we know it sucks but aren't doing anything about it", then all hell would break loose, you can't say you disagree with your own moves as a business all the time. Whether Blizzard agrees or not that happens in a board room meeting.

Who are you to say that what they say isn't the truth.

Whatever happen behinds the schemes, that is what is told and shown us so... until we are shown differently ( maybe you got proofs that the rest of the world doesn't ) that's what we can believe in.

IT : surprised this troll thread made by a troll is still open even after the OP has shown its true colors and got banned.