first trys on lei shen normal

[Deleted]

so am atm in a mastery build as destruction, should i build it more for singeltarget?

[Alarinth]

It's a little sub-optimal, but if your raids dps isn't a matter anyway, you can just leave it as is to help out on the ball lightnings and any other adds spawning. Shouldn't make any big difference anwyay.

[ZakAtack]

It's a primarily single target fight, as you are only AoEing the Ball Lightning really and that's not til after first transition (if you're doing the fight right anyways). You might want to put some Mastery into Haste, don't want those Chaos Bolt to take too long to cast, but it's not going to make a huge difference like Alarinth said. Unless you're hitting Enrage at 1%, you'll be fine with the Mastery build.

[Deleted]

we actualy ended up killing him just as raiding time was over also got trinket.<3

[Brusalk]

You might want to put some Mastery into Haste, don't want those Chaos Bolt to take too long to cast

No. No. No. No. No.

If you are going mastery, go mastery. If you are going haste, go haste. If you are going crit, go crit.

Don't do some middle-ground.

[Maalus]

No. No. No. No. No.

If you are going mastery, go mastery. If you are going haste, go haste. If you are going crit, go crit.

Don't do some middle-ground.

Could you elaborate? I've been using a reforge set that gets haste up to around 5800, and then balances crit and mastery (only 509 ilvl) and I've gotten pretty decent results. Are you saying that if there's adds, go full mastery, ignore everything else, and if it's ST, go either full haste or crit? It's not beneficial to try and balance them?

[Micke]

No. No. No. No. No.

If you are going mastery, go mastery. If you are going haste, go haste. If you are going crit, go crit.

Don't do some middle-ground.

This statement requires more context to make sense.

[Brusalk]

Could you elaborate? I've been using a reforge set that gets haste up to around 5800, and then balances crit and mastery (only 509 ilvl) and I've gotten pretty decent results. Are you saying that if there's adds, go full mastery, ignore everything else, and if it's ST, go either full haste or crit? It's not beneficial to try and balance them?

I'm saying that if you are going Sac w/ Mastery, you shouldn't lose Mastery to gain Haste. Mastery is the best stat for you, always.

I'm also saying that if you're going Sup and decided to go Haste/Crit, then you shouldn't lose Haste/Crit to get Mastery.


Being in a middle-ground means you're sacrificing your niche and best role to be a bit better at something you're not focused around.



That's not to say there's not a reason to run Mastery on a single target fight (IE Durumu HC with Ice Walls being a problem which needs quick and substantial AoE damage).

[Micke]

I'm saying that if you are going Sac w/ Mastery, you shouldn't lose Mastery to gain Haste. Mastery is the best stat for you, always.

I'm also saying that if you're going Sup and decided to go Haste/Crit, then you shouldn't lose Haste/Crit to get Mastery.


Being in a middle-ground means you're sacrificing your niche and best role to be a bit better at something you're not focused around.



That's not to say there's not a reason to run Mastery on a single target fight (IE Durumu HC with Ice Walls being a problem which needs quick and substantial AoE damage).

Being in a middle-ground also means you do not completely suck on any fight if you're not the kind of player that reforges per boss.

I say completely suck but honestly there is not a gamebreaking amount of difference.

[Brusalk]

Being in a middle-ground also means you do not completely suck on any fight if you're not the kind of player that reforges per boss.

I say completely suck but honestly there is not a gamebreaking amount of difference.

Gimping yourself 100% of the time is your decision.

That said I don't recommend anyone does it.

[Micke]

Gimping yourself 100% of the time is your decision.

That said I don't recommend anyone does it.

What matters is the degree of the "gimping".

The stats have different value depending the fight, even if two fights recommends stacking a single stat the difference between that stat and another can vary between them. And truthfully we cannot model all fights 100% correctly anyway via sim (not even single target), and educated guesses only goes so far. I'm pretty certain a fair few fights would work more optimal with a more middle-ground approach due to the fights nature (like durumu you probably would not want to ignore mastery completely for ice-walls, but running full mastery would decrease regular boss damage, lets say both pose an equal hinderance for a certain player?) In reality the stats are in a blur, and we see players making all different kinds of setups work well for them.

[Brusalk]

What matters is the degree of the "gimping".

The stats have different value depending the fight, even if two fights recommends stacking a single stat the difference between that stat and another can vary between them. And truthfully we cannot model all fights 100% correctly anyway via sim (not even single target), and educated guesses only goes so far. I'm pretty certain a fair few fights would work more optimal with a more middle-ground approach due to the fights nature (like durumu you probably would not want to ignore mastery completely for ice-walls, but running full mastery would decrease regular boss damage, lets say both pose an equal hinderance for a certain player?) In reality the stats are in a blur, and we see players making all different kinds of setups work well for them.

Well there's a difference in whether we're talking about specific encounters, and whether we are talking about theoretical situations. I'm talking about (and usually talk about) theoretical situations. Whereas it appears you prefer to talk about specific encounters.


Using your example, of course there's a reason to not go full one stat or the other.

[Deleted]

Second what Brusalk says here, guy knows his stuff^^

[Teye]

This statement requires more context to make sense.

It really only requires more reading to make sense. The link is right in his signature, after all.

[Deleted]

Second what Brusalk says here, guy knows his stuff^^

I agree.

Depending on your guild's dps, being mastery built should be fine. But if your guild is struggling you should probably go for a more single target heavy method. Mastery build is quite good, I guess, once the AOE starts going. But you still need to get to that part :P

[Greywardenn]

I don't get how anybody can argue with Brusalk,....the dude has multiple top ten (and world 1) logs,.....just take everything he says as fact lol.

[Micke]

It really only requires more reading to make sense. The link is right in his signature, after all.

I think my comment was valid.

I don't get how anybody can argue with Brusalk,....the dude has multiple top ten (and world 1) logs,.....just take everything he says as fact lol.

Thinking for yourself makes you not dependant on a single person to give you the answers.

[Brusalk]

I think my comment was valid.



Thinking for yourself makes you not dependant on a single person to give you the answers.

Your comments were perfectly valid, and I don't think disagreement == arguing. An intellegent discussion on stat-weights stemming from a disagreement is great.



Also, I really don't want anyone to take 100% of what I say as fact. I don't think that fosters a community of intellegent people who care about warlock theorycrafting. A prime example is that I didn't even think about the current Soul-Swap stuff for affliction. It's not exactly impossible for me to be wrong. I am human after all.

[Deleted]

honestly, it doesnt matter all that much on lei shen normal, it is as ppl say, mostly a single target fight with short periods of aoe and as such haste would be the optimal choice but with that said, mastery also do very well. it basically comes down to what you prefer. personally, i dont like too much haste as destro, coz i dont like the idea of having incinerates below 1 sec and with the VP trinket that tends to happen a lot, so i try to stay at around 5k haste and if i need more haste i have gear pieces with haste i can change to which i often tend to do on purely single target fights like jin'rohk but with that said, committing to 1 stat is always best and committing to mastery tends to be the best option unless you want reforge and regem all the time but at the end of the day, the only optimal way to gear is whatever the OP feels is best, as you cant rerally go wrong with the stats you feel is optimal for you.

[Bonkura]

I don't get how anybody can argue with Brusalk,....the dude has multiple top ten (and world 1) logs,.....just take everything he says as fact lol.

this kind of logic ruins theorycrafting. please stop