Destruction Warlock trinket question..

[Deleted]

Whit trinket is better for Destruction warlock http://www.wowhead.com/item=95772 or http://www.wowhead.com/item=96455/breath-of-the-hydra#. ??

[Surutcra]

502 vs. 535 is not a fair fight !

[Deleted]

Cha-ye's its easier to make better use of its proc window than it is hydra

[Surutcra]

Cha-ye's its easier to make better use of its proc window than it is hydra

True, but again 502 vs. 535 is a no-match.

[Deleted]

Im assuming he means the same item level, and idd as surutcra says it would be a no brainer with the item level diff.

[Shodan30]

Why is hydra considered so great for distro anyway? we dont get a higher proc rate chance as destro then we do as affliction on the trinket, so with only immolate giving you a chance to trigger it, it seems like it would be less then optimal. Does RoF count as a periodic spell for the trigger chance?

[Deleted]

RoF counts as a periodic spell.

[Alarinth]

Why is hydra considered so great for distro anyway? we dont get a higher proc rate chance as destro then we do as affliction on the trinket, so with only immolate giving you a chance to trigger it, it seems like it would be less then optimal. Does RoF count as a periodic spell for the trigger chance?

RoF isn't a periodic debuff on the target as agony, immolate or the sort - think of it like hellfire. It is a buff that updates dynamically, which is why it won't retain the 100% crit rate when you cast it at the last second of UVLS.

As for the Hydra question.. It's duration is 20 seconds, which means you'll spend maybe 30% of it with chaos bolts, then the rest with reapplying rain of fire, immolates, incinerates and other non-significant stuff. And when those 20 seconds are over, you're most likely stuck a long while until the next proc. With Cha-Ye's, you'll statistically use more of the buffs uptime for chaos bolts, ie. it is a little more fluid. You can make better use of the proc since you're given more time to regenerate embers between. That's what I'm thinking anyway, and should just be taken as anecdotal ramblings.

[Deleted]

alarinth, i think what shodan30 was asking was if RoF counts as periodic dmg for procing breath of the hydra and from what ive read, it does idd count as periodic dmg and can proc hydra.

i would say the BotH proc is much more useful as it will allow you to build up embers AND still get some chaos bolts off due to it being a 20 sec proc, the cha-ye proc is only 10 sec if you're out of embers, it will rarely allow you to regen enough embers for you to cast a chaos bolt and let alone 2. also math supports BotH being better as long as you are below 30% crit, at 30%(technically its 29,87%) crit the two trinkets are equal and over cha-ye will be better or rather have a bigger uptime than BotH atleast for destro, for afflic and demo botH reigns supreme as locks shun crit for BotH(breath of the hydra) specs in favor of mastery and haste.

[Brusalk]

alarinth, i think what shodan30 was asking was if RoF counts as periodic dmg for procing breath of the hydra and from what ive read, it does idd count as periodic dmg and can proc hydra.

i would say the BotH proc is much more useful as it will allow you to build up embers AND still get some chaos bolts off due to it being a 20 sec proc, the cha-ye proc is only 10 sec if you're out of embers, it will rarely allow you to regen enough embers for you to cast a chaos bolt and let alone 2. also math supports BotH being better as long as you are below 30% crit, at 30%(technically its 29,87%) crit the two trinkets are equal and over cha-ye will be better or rather have a bigger uptime than BotH atleast for destro, for afflic and demo botH reigns supreme as locks shun crit for BotH(breath of the hydra) specs in favor of mastery and haste.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that with a temp crit CD, bad-streak-protection will make it more likely for Chayes to proc during DS,

[Last Starfighter]

DFO or GTFO

[xskarma]

DFO or GTFO

That's a very, very long time ago, and most people will have no idea what you mean. It's Wushoolay's Final Choice these days. A more constructive (understandble) post next time please.

[Rayaleith]

So, one guy says the RoF cannot proc BotH while the other says it can. Which one is the correct answer. Even if RoF procs it, with a heavy mastery build (aka very low haste --> bad for RPPM), is it a trinket to consider at all? (am talking about BotH and destro)

[Deleted]

RoF can proc damage over time effects.

Those 2 trinkets each has certain advantages. For example, with Breath of the Hydra, you can delay its proc by letting your immolate wear off and not casting rof. As all your other damage as destro is single target, you can then decide when to apply those 2 and it generally procs pretty early. As an example, you could not use rain/immolate outside pools on first boss hc, which should give you more trinket uptime in the pools and less outside pools.

As others have posted, cha'ye has a half duration but double the proc chance coefficient**, which is an advantage, because even if hydra's proc catches you with almost full embers, you can cast 4 chaos bolts in about 10 seconds with a bit of haste, not to mention backdrafts, or a meta proc. After that you just spend time gathering embers so you can cast 1 or 2 more chaos bolts. When it comes to shadowburns, this discussion is even more in favor of cha'ye.

**Even though the proc coefficient of cha'ye is double the proc coefficient of hydra, cha'ye has an additional coefficient based on crit chance: 0.8085*(1+SpellCritChance).
This means that in order to see exactly double the procs for cha'ye (compared to hydra), your crit chance should be 23.69% crit (in other words that coefficient should equal 1). If you have less than that, cha'ye's chance to proc will be lower, and if you have more than that, the chance to proc will be higher. This is why cha'ye is a formidable trinket for mages, who can easily reach over 50-60% crit chance, as they reforge and gem all into crit (and have 1.2 more crit on top of that). I am not sure if raid buffs apply to this extra coefficient of cha'ye, since haste raid buffs do not count towards RPPM proc chance system.

So the answear isn't clear. I suppose "whatever is higher itemlevel" or "whichever drops first" are ok answears in this case. Don't fight with a mage over cha'ye though, unless you want to be a jerk. If you already have both with the same itemlevel, check your crit chance, if it is much lower than 23.69%, just go for hydra (ex: 15% crit chance means 0.929 for cha'ye's crit coefficient, which means 7% less uptime compared to hydra).

[Rayaleith]

Thanks for your answer.

So... Hydra is a so and so trinket for destruction with heavy mastery. That does not leave so many choices. The one from council and lei shen's. lei shen's seems again so and so for destruction (but good to have for demo off spec). That means that a heave mastery destruction lock should go for council's and hydra ( I did not include VP one since there is no heroic version).

So, the other 2 specs have it much easier with trinkets.

[Hexotic]

A good guideline for lock trinkets is the icy veins post on the issue. It is not perfect, but its definitely a great place to see the ups and downs, and the math behind it all.
http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topi...lock-trinkets/

[Deleted]

a question lei shen vs cha both lfr which one is a winner for destruction=)?

[Brusalk]

a question lei shen vs cha both lfr which one is a winner for destruction=)?

Cha-yes for sure.

[walp]

I don't get it why people like Wushoolay.
As a destro you can use it for 2 powerful chaos bolts + 1 powerful immolate. While Hydra gives you 4-5 chaos bolts and 2 fulltime buffed immolates.
I'd go with Hydra+ChaYe or Hydra+Vision.

[Brusalk]

I don't get it why people like Wushoolay.
As a destro you can use it for 2 powerful chaos bolts + 1 powerful immolate. While Hydra gives you 4-5 chaos bolts and 2 fulltime buffed immolates.
I'd go with Hydra+ChaYe or Hydra+Vision.

I use Wush/BotH. In many, many of the fights in ToT I can easily dump embers during both BotH procs and Wush > 7 stack procs.