Healers are Un-Killable

[Aeluron Lightsong]

^This.

All the preaching about interrupts and CC is mostly crap. Yes, it will help, but it blatantly obvious that healers are OP at the moment.

No not that. Healers aren't as godly as you imply them to be. Funny thing is CC is very much out of control then say lol healers.

Yeah, battle fatigue also does not effect mana regain. Healers get their overall healing nerfed in pvp with the debuff, but they still maintain OP mana regain. You can go 45min in a 2v1 match against a healer and he will still be full mana.

You're not supposed to solo a healer. They won't be able to heal effectively if one dps can kill them.

[Goundin]

Healers are not meant to be soloed in PvP. Why? Because if one person could kill them that quickly, what's the point of even bringing a healer to a BG? Stop trying to be an Elitist and learn to work with a team. Your group is meant to work together, not be going around saying, "You all suck cause I can kill a healer myself, worship me." That would ruin the game.

[Deleted]

If you can't kill healers you're probably not very good at this game. Healers can easily be taken down in 1v1. If you're having problems killing healers it's not because, "healerz op amg" it's that you either suck or you are being cc'd by the healers buddies.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 07:26 PM ----------

a healer can kill a dps eventually but certain dps classes has fk all chance to kill a healer and you can preach all that shit about cc and interrupts forever and wont make 1 bit of difference so all should reroll healers until they fix there broke game

Rofl, bro you need to learn to play. If you're getting killed by a healer 1v1 you're hella bad.

[sandmoth12]

Your strawman argument does not hold water. One dps should not be able to kill a healer. Why not? Because if just one dps's output is enough to kill them, then that healer's throughput is not enough to keep a 3v3 or 5v5 team alive during normal play.

The same goes for your thought on the healer running oom in 10 minutes under the pressure of one, solitary, dps. That sort of sustainability would be pathetic in a 5v5 team, and not much better in 3v3.

Big deal? So you would have to peel dpsers off the healer in 3v3 and 5v5 which sounds like how a match should go. I healer shouldn't be able to just tank people indefinitely.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Big deal? So you would have to peel dpsers off the healer in 3v3 and 5v5 which sounds like how a match should go. I healer shouldn't be able to just tank people indefinitely.

They can't if you're smart about it. Healers can't actually tank people indefinitely. If you're not ccing and or focus firing on them, then they will stay alive.

[sandmoth12]

simple. because if I can outdps a disc priest's healing 1v1, while they are at 100% mana, then theoretically that healer would not be able to keep a single dps up in health either. healing would be come absolutley worthless in every aspect of pvp.

honestly though, 1v1 you -can- kill a healer "eventually". as in when they oom. if you can't keep pressure on a healer long enough for them to oom then you're probably just not playing very well in the first place. my warrior that is in half pvp gear half questing gear, most of his pvp gear being crafted dreadful, can still apply pressure onto a healer to make them use quite a bit of mana.

No, heals can still be very powerful as long as they still run oom eventually. There is a possible design were a healer can keep 2-3 people up, but still eventually oom to a single dps. It all has to do with mana regain not how much they heal for.

[Deleted]

If you can't kill healers you're probably not very good at this game. Healers can easily be taken down in 1v1. If you're having problems killing healers it's not because, "healerz op amg" it's that you either suck or you are being cc'd by the healers buddies.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 07:26 PM ----------



Rofl, bro you need to learn to play. If you're getting killed by a healer 1v1 you're hella bad.

I agree with the "healer can kill a dps" part. But a healer vs. a dps in an Arena can easily kite you to infinity (Resto Druids), while just keeping their hots up at the same time. Anyhow, PvP isn't balanced around 1v1 or 2v2, so in a 3v3 scenario I think it's fair enough that a dps isn't able to just nuke a healer down. And while some dps classes can do just that via insane burst, the classes who can't often have other abilities as superior CC that sorta balance it out.

[Locruid]

Blizz has said time and again that they balance healers according to 3v3.

With that said they obviously dont balance below 85 cause I took my 84 MW out for a spin and was killed in a Pally stun by a pally. Had a 79 Boomkin damn near one shot my 79 resto druid. They passed Battle Fatigue to low levels but only gave the resilience changes to high levels (My 84 doesn't have it)

[Poodles]

However, even with the band aid fix and healing debuffs from certain classes, it still takes 3 to 4 geared players to bring down a single healer in a BG. Blizz really needs to go back to the drawing board and completely rework healing in pvp.

Considering PvP is balanced around arenas with 5v5, using 3-4 people to down a healer is tuned correctly. It's not like the healer is going to kill you so there's nothing to complain about...

[sandmoth12]

Healers are not meant to be soloed in PvP. Why? Because if one person could kill them that quickly, what's the point of even bringing a healer to a BG? Stop trying to be an Elitist and learn to work with a team. Your group is meant to work together, not be going around saying, "You all suck cause I can kill a healer myself, worship me." That would ruin the game.

6-10min of beating on a single person to kill him is not a short time in pvp. And if you let me beat on a healer that long with peeling for him, then he probably deserves to die.

[Nophixia]

Big deal? So you would have to peel dpsers off the healer in 3v3 and 5v5 which sounds like how a match should go. I healer shouldn't be able to just tank people indefinitely.

The point is that they can't tank people indefinitely. You need peels as a healer in a 3v3 match. I think you are either just not very capable of playing your class right or not geared enough if you cannot kill a healer with 1/2 extra dps helping you.

[Deleted]

6-10min of beating on a single person to kill him is not a short time in pvp. And if you let me beat on a healer that long with peeling for him, then he probably deserves to die.

If you're in 3v3 and you can't chain CC a healer then you deserve to have long matches.

[Luxeley]

Forget about healers for a second. In some way - that's how they are intended to be. How about warlocks? They're even less killable. The problem seems to be that Blizzard nerfed PVP pwr a little much. I notice I can still take chunks of health out of other classes at almost the same pace, but finishing off a warlock is next to impossible with all their absorbs.

[sandmoth12]

Forget about healers for a second. In some way - that's how they are intended to be. How about warlocks? They're even less killable. The problem seems to be that Blizzard nerfed PVP pwr a little much. I notice I can still take chunks of health out of other classes at almost the same pace, but finishing off a warlock is next to impossible with all their absorbs.

Agree it's bullcrap.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Agree it's bullcrap.

It's not bull crap. You seem to not be able to defend your own points and defer to others. If Healers can't even survive against one DPS, how the heck are they going to be able to heal people in a BG or heck in a 3v3 and 5v5?

[Stevegasm]

If you can't kill healers you're probably not very good at this game. Healers can easily be taken down in 1v1. If you're having problems killing healers it's not because, "healerz op amg" it's that you either suck or you are being cc'd by the healers buddies.

As scathing as this is, I would have to say, Therionn is pretty much right here. I only hit 90 a couple days a go on my druid. Have four piece of the Valor gear (got it quickly thanks to points saved up from Cata). Though I was a very skilled healer before, I'm not all that great at it now (been off the game too long, pretty rusty and all that). I can hold my own against most players 1vs1, and hold off respectably 2vs1. I can still get shredded apart if it's 1vs1 and other player is good. I might last half a minute tops, and that's only because I'm burning my survival cooldowns. I'll last a little longer if I have access to IBF, Monk Last Stand (don't know the real name), or Deterrence.

The differences I've noticed:
-Bad Players: They just damage and snare me, maybe an interrupt, maybe some CC. I last forever and never really get in danger of dying because I'm kiting them. Not only that, but I can keep the rest of the group up quite easily. I rarely have to burn survival cooldowns, if ever.
-Average: A little better than above, except I stand to go OOM after a while, and I must be a little more careful. I usually end the fight with everything on cooldown. Another teammate around me might be dead by the time a skirmish is over.
-Good Players: No one else is getting heals because I'm too busy trying to keep myself up. I spend a bulk of my time silenced, interrupted, or CCed, and I'm always snared. It's probably because I'm not that good anymore, but even as a druid, I have trouble keeping good players off me, when back in TBC, it was pretty easy. If I'm lucky I might be able to get a non instant cast off. At this point, it only takes one good player to lock me down, if two good players are on me, I'll be dead in under ten seconds.

[gobnobbla]

Same, me (frost dk) and my warrior partner (fury) (both in full malevolent + tyrannical) went against a resto druid and unholy dk. We killed the dk through separation but my warrior friend died. We both thought I'd be able to kill that druid considering he only had 350k health but boy were we wrong. It was in the new tiger arena and that druid would either displacer beast, prowl, insta cyclone + manual cyclone, tauren stomp, shapeshifting to either break chains of ice or to gain speed + distance, playing hide and seek with pillars, and yeahhh dat kiting. In the end time we ran out of time and it was a waste of time... Also the healer had a lv 85 trinket...I SAW THOSE DEMON LORD PROCS...lil blue tauren resto druid..

[sandmoth12]

It's not bull crap. You seem to not be able to defend your own points and defer to others. If Healers can't even survive against one DPS, how the heck are they going to be able to heal people in a BG or heck in a 3v3 and 5v5?

I said in one of my previous posts that you can design healers to be able to keep 2-3 people up at once, but also eventually run oom to a single dps. That's how they should be designed. Strong heals so can keep multiple people up including themselves, but those heals should cost a fair amount of mana.

[Raugnaut]

If you just blow all cooldowns and mindlessly attack them, you are gonna fail. However, if you skillfully get them inside an interupt/stun combo, and then burst em down inside that 10 second window, you get a healer kill.

[sandmoth12]

As scathing as this is, I would have to say, Therionn is pretty much right here. I only hit 90 a couple days a go on my druid. Have four piece of the Valor gear (got it quickly thanks to points saved up from Cata). Though I was a very skilled healer before, I'm not all that great at it now (been off the game too long, pretty rusty and all that). I can hold my own against most players 1vs1, and hold off respectably 2vs1. I can still get shredded apart if it's 1vs1 and other player is good. I might last half a minute tops, and that's only because I'm burning my survival cooldowns. I'll last a little longer if I have access to IBF, Monk Last Stand (don't know the real name), or Deterrence.

The differences I've noticed:
-Bad Players: They just damage and snare me, maybe an interrupt, maybe some CC. I last forever and never really get in danger of dying because I'm kiting them. Not only that, but I can keep the rest of the group up quite easily. I rarely have to burn survival cooldowns, if ever.
-Average: A little better than above, except I stand to go OOM after a while, and I must be a little more careful. I usually end the fight with everything on cooldown. Another teammate around me might be dead by the time a skirmish is over.
-Good Players: No one else is getting heals because I'm too busy trying to keep myself up. I spend a bulk of my time silenced, interrupted, or CCed, and I'm always snared. It's probably because I'm not that good anymore, but even as a druid, I have trouble keeping good players off me, when back in TBC, it was pretty easy. If I'm lucky I might be able to get a non instant cast off. At this point, it only takes one good player to lock me down, if two good players are on me, I'll be dead in under ten seconds.

Please spare me with the good player/bad player and CC/interrupt speech.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 10:16 PM ----------

If you just blow all cooldowns and mindlessly attack them, you are gonna fail. However, if you skillfully get them inside an interupt/stun combo, and then burst em down inside that 10 second window, you get a healer kill.

Here we go... Blah blah blah interrupt bla blah blah CC. Those excuses get old man. Look it is not a matter of CC and interrupts in my eyes. I see healers as overpowered and unkillable at the moment plain and simple. And I won't listen to the usual dribble about CC and interrupts.