Theramore was a fair target.

[Dreknar20]

Varian: "Hey, I'm here alone with just these adventurers. There is no army here". (Actually the truth)
.

Cept all those footmen, the High priestess of the Night elves and those seemingly impassible defenses the players set up

[DeicideUH]

Wait wait wait. so Theremore was HELPING THE NIGHT ELVES? and you think we arent justified in attacking a city ACTIVELY helping our enemies? you alliance are so funny LOL

Typical Horde logic:

"How DARE the Alliance help their own allies when we attack them? Don't they see our war is totally justified, and that they are evil by opposing us, so it's justified to kill them all?"

[StationaryHawk]

Fair target, ofc it was. Tho they killed every chance for peace by doing so. Thus proving how bloodthirsty and stupid the orcs are.

And to bring in the Kirin Tor in the fight as active participants are also stupid. But hey, even the horde understand how stupid the orcs are. Its just the orcs themselves who dont see it.

It's war. If both sides didn't attack each other for the sake of a potential peace, they'd already be at peace.

[Dreknar20]

If the Alliance got another Lothar, .

Technically Metzen wants Varian to be a "Lothar like character"

---------- Post added 2013-05-28 at 03:50 AM ----------

Don't they see our war is totally justified, and that they are evil by opposing us, so it's justified to kill them all?"

because its not like all armies and all sides everywhere belive they are right
Everyone believs they have right, justice, and God on their side

[DeicideUH]

It's war. If both sides didn't attack each other for the sake of a potential peace, they'd already be at peace.

It's not the Alliance who's invading Horde lands. It's the opposite. Ashenvalle, Hillsbrad, Gilneas...

Or are you saying that the Alliance should just let the Horde have whatever it wants?

because its not like all armies and all sides everywhere belive they are right
Everyone believs they have right, justice, and God on their side

Considering that the Alliance was mostly defending itself and its lands since the start, it's hard to say they were wrong this time.

[Chireru93]

well, maybe it's because Garrosh didn't just kill them, he erased them from existence. from every other universe, every fabric of time and space, theramore and everyone and everything hit by that bomb has been erased forever. their souls even, are gone.

I think that's why people say the route Garrosh took was unfair. A regular huge nuke that simply killed, that's one thing, erasing people from existence is another.

and yeah, I'm horde myself.

[Shampro]

I always giggle when people forget that the Alliance was actually meaning to attack and laying siege to the gate that leads to Thunder Bluff, yes of all people, Tauren. Also Theramore was indeed a fair target, the problem is the way it was executed, which no matter how much people want to argue, Its brilliant. Unfair? Yes for sure, Smart as a strategy or pin point? Ofcourse, but its not the Horde's way, its never been. Thus this is why Garrosh is about to gets his doors knocked down soon.

Also, I Always laugh a little when I see people say that Orcs/(Garrosh) are/is dumb, you've got to be kidding me, dont let your feelings get in the way of actually noticing how cunning and how much strategy Garrosh puts into his Attacks (I.E Theramore). I will say this every time, Garrosh as a Warlord or General, is simply brilliant and has a lot going on, as a Warchief? Working with other representatives? NOT a chance. And has been like this since the VERY start. It has only scaleted.

[Dreknar20]

well, maybe it's because Garrosh didn't just kill them, he erased them from existence. from every other universe, every fabric of time and space, theramore and everyone and everything hit by that bomb has been erased forever. their souls even, are gone.
.

if the mana bomb itself it so terrible why are the Sunreavers and Kiron Tor throwing them at each other?

[DeicideUH]

I always giggle when people forget that the Alliance was actually meaning to attack and laying siege to the gate that leads to Thunder Bluff, yes of all people, Tauren.

Citing that without context is unfair. The Alliance was making a path throught the Barrens. They destroyed Taurajo because it was harboring attacking parties. They besieged Mul'gore because it was sending attacking parties.

if Alliance had any intention of attacking Mul'gore, they would not give time for the Taurens to build the gates in the first place. They'd advance towards it instead of continuing the road to Ashenvalle.

And BTW, people either forget or don't know that, but without Jaina or Theramore the taurens would have no Thunderbluff for themselves. It would be under control of the Grimtotem. Anduin even invited the Tauren into the Alliance, but Baine refused. Jaina then gave Baine money so he could buy weapons to retake Thunderbluff.

[FenrisUy]

Turning that argument on its head, you could just as easily say Orgrimmar was a strategic post very close to Ashenvale. It's been used to attack the Alliance on many occasions. Let's nuke it, shall we?

I don't understand, are you saying that Orgrimmar is not a valid military target? It sure is. Same with all the ally capitals and forts.

[yetgdhfgh]

Citing that without context is unfair. The Alliance was making a path throught the Barrens. They destroyed Taurajo because it was harboring attacking parties. They besieged Mul'gore because it was sending attacking parties.

if Alliance had any intention of attacking Mul'gore, they would not give time for the Taurens to build the gates in the first place. They'd advance towards it instead of continuing the road to Ashenvalle.

And BTW, people either forget or don't know that, but without Jaina or Theramore the taurens would have no Thunderbluff for themselves. It would be under control of the Grimtotem. Anduin even invited the Tauren into the Alliance, but Baine refused. Jaina then gave Baine money so he could buy weapons to retake Thunderbluff.

Why are there siege ballistas firing at the gates of Mulgure? Are they just firing at the wall for target practise?

No they want to fucking invade the place cause if they can destroy TB Orgrimmar would be surrounded without there tauren allies for help

[FenrisUy]

He wasn't giving them time for civilians to be evacuated. He was waiting long enough for a large majority of the Alliance fleet and prestigious members of the Kirin Tor to show up.

Yeah, those poor neutral Kirin Tor members that were there just defending an alliance city from an attack. If they are neutral, they will behave like Argent Crusade and don't help or attack any side. Not being there protecting an alliance city.

[Orcbert]

I think the Alliance are mad they were outsmarted by Garrosh. Lets face it, as far as Military deception goes that was a fairly slick maneuver to wipe out a large portion of high end military. I was as surprised as most that Garrosh used a deft move instead of screaming 'For Honor' and bashing his face into Theramore's walls.

[Shampro]

Turning that argument on its head, you could just as easily say Orgrimmar was a strategic post very close to Ashenvale. It's been used to attack the Alliance on many occasions. Let's nuke it, shall we?

Ofcourse it is, the thing is, what the hell will you take from Durotar? Desert cactus? Dont forget that this is what this war is about in Kalimdor, resources.

[Aquamonkey]

People often debate whether Stonetalon Garrosh and MoP Garrosh are the same Warchief. Is there something afoot?
How so? He never ordered nukes wasted on civilian targets and still wouldn't.

It didn't seem he cared if Theramore had civs in ToW.
Theramore completely a military target, more so when the civs have chance to escape. (Source)

[yetgdhfgh]

People often debate whether Stonetalon Garrosh and MoP Garrosh are the same Warchief. Is there something afoot?
How so? He never ordered nukes wasted on civilian targets and still wouldn't.

It didn't seem he cared if Theramore had civs in ToW.
Theramore completely a military target, more so when the civs have chance to escape. (Source)

Straight from the horses mouth

Theramore was a stunning horde victory and a miltary masterstroke

[DeicideUH]

Why are there siege ballistas firing at the gates of Mulgure? Are they just firing at the wall for target practise?

No they want to fucking invade the place cause if they can destroy TB Orgrimmar would be surrounded without there tauren allies for help

Or they are just making pressure to make sure the tauren stay there.

And in Tides of War, the Tauren were able to easily get out of the gate and murder the few Alliance forces there in order to join the siege of Theramore.

There's not even the faintest hint in the whole storyline that the Alliance ever planned to actually attack Mul'gore.

Ofcourse it is, the thing is, what the hell will you take from Durotar? Desert cactus? Dont forget that this is what this war is about in Kalimdor, resources.

For the Horde it may be. For the Alliance, it's a war to defend their lands

[Dreknar20]

Ofcourse it is, the thing is, what the hell will you take from Durotar? Desert cactus? Dont forget that this is what this war is about in Kalimdor, resources.

Alliance dont need anything, they already have more resources than the Horde, in terms of better lands
They just need to eliminate the Horde so it dsnt bother them again

[FenrisUy]

It's not the Alliance who's invading Horde lands. It's the opposite. Ashenvalle, Hillsbrad, Gilneas...

Or are you saying that the Alliance should just let the Horde have whatever it wants?



Considering that the Alliance was mostly defending itself and its lands since the start, it's hard to say they were wrong this time.

Gilneas was not Alliance lands.

Also, Alliance is building a fort in Durotar next to the Echo Isles, if that is not encroaching into Horde territory I don't know what is.

[Dairyking101]

God, I laugh people that only want World of Lovecraft.... like really this expac was about Horde Vs Alliance... best way to win... kill the other before they kill you even if you have to use dodgy tactics.