Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview

[Dreknar20]

"Item lvl between normal and raid finder"
Fucking serious? So now I have to run both this on top of normal/heroic progression?
And they just fixed not being compelled to run lfr........

[starkey]

Im now a flexi casual raider i love it.

[link_991]

I love that they perfectly predicted everyone's reaction being either "That's it?" or "That's Fantastic!"

[Dreary]

Interesting... although curious to see how the heck a raid leader know what roles he needs with flexible groups.

For 10 man you need 2 tanks 3 heals and 5 dps
What do you need for 12 man? 15 man? 20 man?

Seems like a lot of complexity/confusion to understand how many additional healers, dps you need to be successful with flexible sizes between 10 and 25

Actually since the difficulty scales linearly, after 10-man you would add 1 healer for every 4 non-heals. Just keep the same proportion it is in 10-man. Sooo..

15 man = 2 tanks, 3 heals, 10 dps...
20 man = 2 tanks, 4 heals, 14 dps...

11 man you use 2 heals..
12 man you use 2 heals..
13 man you use 3 heals..
14 man you use 3 heals..
etc..

[Seefer]

This is a pretty good idea but I can't help but feel it's accomplishing what LFR tried to accomplish but in a much better way. It's a great way for the PuGs and the social players to get to see the raid content.

However, I think 4 difficulty levels is too many. This thing is like LFR but way better in every way. It has all the strengths of the accessibility - especially with it being "flexible and cross server". However, it also doesn't let people play like utter crap and escape all social responsibility.

This is what LFR should have been, and I applaud it for that reason alone. LFR needs to be axed, though. It was pretty bad.

I agree with this whore heartedly.

[Deleted]

If you are progressing normal/heroic this thing is not for you, just move along and let casuals have their fun.

[Xjev]

Awesome Idea, while keeping heroic level of difficulty for hardcore, normals for normal raiders who want progress, this mode for normal raiders who just want to down bosses, and LFR for ppl who wanna solo. Everyone should be happy now. Good job Blizzard.

[araine]

This will hopefully end up being the new "normal" mode raid it looks very promising to address the issues that is hurting the average casual guild right now.

[VanishO2]

Fair enough if LFR ruined the game that much i totally missed it, ive always had a stabile raiding envoirment. And i only do LFR on my alts, it has its place atm. I would say there are things missing more then saying lfr is a failure. But yea i think its here our thoughts are seperated.
And yea there IS a difference about bitching (you were bitching) and giving constructive feedback.

You dont work at blizzard, you dont know shit about how this will evolve or have an impact on the game so stop acting like it.
The overall negative energy just makes me puke sometimes. Jesus see some positive things.

Raiding has evovled, if its cause blizzard made normals hard ot whatever it doesnt matter. Clearly this is game changing if it ends up beeing like

LFR
Normal Flexible
Heroic Flexible

as its probably might end up in the next expansion. It will open up a whole new dynamic to raiding.

Dynamic is usually good when a game is dropping in subs.

Sorry, it wasn't bitching, because if it was, it would be no more, no less than you. Were you bitching?

Unfortunatelly, this isn't the right place for constructive feedback, since this isn't Blizzard foruns, so yes... it's just discussing about it.

I also do LFR on my alts since I don't want to bother with pugging things just for an alt (I don't get pissed because another guy has better gear on his, let's say, monk, than I have on my monk alt, but clearly tons of players do get), but unfortunatelly had to run LFR on my main a few times for the extra legendary quest item drops (and thankfully they made it shared drop later. And you can bet some ppl complained that they now don't have the freedom of choice to run both LFR and Normal/Heroic for extra quest items) or the final set piece for a stupid OP set bonus because everyone else asked for it "dude, that set bonus could really help, it's OP and it would be one less rolling on it when it drops, could you try to get it from LFR please?". Sure I could just go asshole mode "no, screw you all". But... anyway.

The game now is even faster than before. So you can't just sit there waiting for a drop in normal/heroic if the next content is almost out there. And if you don't care about killing boss X or Y before it's over, then why even care about after finishing the story in LFR or anything else? You're lying to yourself if you're stepping into normals or even heroics and saying you have the same mentality of a guy who just log, do a few pew pew here and there between dailies, random bgs and lfr and logoff.

The game is old. Ppl do get tired after 7 years. MMO genre as a whole is going down. Trying any crazy idea isn't going to bring players back to gold times. One thing that wotlk taught us and you can be damn sure it's right is that getting burn out is one of the fastest ways to get ppl leaving the game.

[PenguinChan]

If you are progressing normal/heroic this thing is not for you, just move along and let casuals have their fun.

Why does a player who is progressing through normal or heroic need not apply to these raids?

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Here comes the raging from people who for some odd reason suffer from an imaginary OCD that feel pressured to do all raid difficulties on one toon. It's a game. Not a job. Got enough complaints from players who feel they have to constantly grind dailies because of an imaginary gun to their heads.

[araine]

I don't understand how this even serves a purpose. Adding one more member to the group causing a sacrifice of several ilvls isn't really worth it. People will just bring 10 or 25 anyway.

Not among those guilds that are brickwalled and stuck in ToT right now.

[Vlarkin]

See I HATE this. Because even though it does not force people to do both, it mentally causes people to think they have to do both 10m and 25m to contend. I will not be returning for 5.4

[VanishO2]

If you are progressing normal/heroic this thing is not for you, just move along and let casuals have their fun.

But normal/heroic ppl saying for casuals (let's be fair, baddies, because casual ppl can do a lot, causal is about time avaiable, not lack of skill) to move along from normal/raid because it's not for them was "OMG YOU !%$%$% ELITISTS!!""

Sry, but this can involve normal/heroic players in so many ways that you can't imagine. Blizzard messed with LFR more than once because it interfered with normal/heroic raiding even on a world 1st competition level (to the point of guilds getting caught exploiting it), why would something still way easier than normal, totally flexible (rá! lol) and with better loot than LFR (and their share of afkraiders and determination stacks) wouldn't interfere???

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 03:34 AM ----------

Here comes the raging from people who for some odd reason suffer from an imaginary OCD that feel pressured to do all raid difficulties on one toon. It's a game. Not a job. Got enough complaints from players who feel they have to constantly grind dailies because of an imaginary gun to their heads.

And the rage from ppl for some odd reason suffer from an imaginary OCD that feel pressured to get more and more ilvl instead of being happy with their share of the game...

See... any trolling can go both ways...

[Xjev]

Actually since the difficulty scales linearly, after 10-man you would add 1 healer for every 4 non-heals. Just keep the same proportion it is in 10-man. Sooo..

15 man = 2 tanks, 3 heals, 10 dps...
20 man = 2 tanks, 4 heals, 14 dps...

11 man you use 2 heals..
12 man you use 2 heals..
13 man you use 3 heals..
14 man you use 3 heals..
etc..

Well since difficulty is gonna be almost faceroll, it wont really matter, bring on whatever you have lol

[Eurytos]

"Item lvl between normal and raid finder"
Fucking serious? So now I have to run both this on top of normal/heroic progression?
And they just fixed not being compelled to run lfr........

why would you have to?

[araine]

Needs to share a lockout with raid finder, I'd gouge my eyes out with a melon baller if I was obligated to do both retard modes just for the gear for a shot at normal.

Disappointed it doesn't support group sizes smaller than 10. Adding more lukewarm bodies isn't always hard, and speaking as someone who's already finished CMs, I want something I can do with the 4 people I like and not a ton of garbage pugs I keep on btag through stockholm syndrome.

If you feel you need the gear from both these to have a shoot at normal, here is a hint it isnt gear holding you back just as it isnt gear holding mom and pop guilds back in ToT right now. One is a case of L2P better and the other is a case of this content isnt tuned for us.

[RoKPaNda]

But normal/heroic ppl saying for casuals (let's be fair, baddies, because casual ppl can do a lot, causal is about time avaiable, not lack of skill) to move along from normal/raid because it's not for them was "OMG YOU !%$%$% ELITISTS!!""

Sry, but this can involve normal/heroic players in so many ways that you can't imagine. Blizzard messed with LFR more than once because it interfered with normal/heroic raiding even on a world 1st competition level (to the point of guilds getting caught exploiting it), why would something still way easier than normal, totally flexible (rá! lol) and with better loot than LFR (and their share of afkraiders and determination stacks) wouldn't interfere???

---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 03:34 AM ----------



And the rage from ppl for some odd reason suffer from an imaginary OCD that feel pressured to get more and more ilvl instead of being happy with their share of the game...

See... any trolling can go both ways...

See you're the one that doesn't get it. If your guild forces you to run LFR then your guild is straight up abusing you and you need to find a new guild. If you're in one of the best guilds in the world and racing for first, that's one thing. That itty bitty miniscule chance of getting the one or two pieces that are better than your normal mode previous tier stuff in your weakest slots may make a slight difference. For everyone else it really doesn't matter, at all. There is absolutely zero reason outside of abuse or funzies for a normal/heroic raider to do LFR. If you do it because it's fun, then great. If you do it because your guild says you have to and you don't enjoy it, then you're in an abusive relationship with your guild. That's really all there is to it.

The only exception to this is if you're in a guild that's not done with ToT yet and you still need Wrathion items from bosses. That is/was kind of shitty. LFR, and in the future Flex mode raiding though? Totally fine.

[Tybudd33]

Nice idea, but the difficulty adjustment doesn't make any sense w/o taking ilvl into consideration. Invite friends with all blues and greens with with 11 of them or 25 = wipefest. If LFR is a lower difficulty, and ilvl boundaries are set. So where is the logic in this???

[Doombringer]

Option overload.

I don't know, it seems almost as if there's too many variants to raiding now... too many 'tiers' of items. There's going to be a mess of sorta-upgrades and side-grades, and the people at Mr. Robot are probably going to go insane now...

Maybe this is how "Normal" raiding should eventually be, scalable between 10 and 25. Then LFR would be your introductory level. Right now, it's looking messy... LFR 25, Normal 10, Hardcore 10, Normal 25, Hardcore 25, and Flexi 10-through-25...