Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Phasma]

And you get those obstacles in heroic mode if you're after the challenge. Like it or not, story is a fairly big part of at least some video games these days. I do think that LFR is too easy, but I have no problem with what flex raid is sounding like, a step between faceroll lfr and normal modes.

Soon, WoW will be nothing more than an interactive version of YouTube based around the Warcraft universe (if it isn't already). Is that what you want? It saddens me to think people don't want to use their brains to have fun. That's what RPGs are all about! Playing a character. Being a hero. Overcoming all obstacles when they seemed impossible to overcome. I guess people that enjoy an "interactive movie" type of game will never fully understand the fun of chilling out in a raid group, talking to friends while wiping to a boss, and then, when they finally defeat that boss, the screams of joy that follow. It's unreal how amazing that feeling is. If you haven't experienced it, then I'm truly sorry.

[Buu]

Erhm because they don't get to see it? Really as simple as that; they feel left out and they pay the same amount of money.

Not even that. The DEVELOPERS THEMSELVES were pissed to see their hard and complicated work being ignored by 99% of their players.
Based on this dissatisfaction, executives started to worry about people leaving due to lack of content, since the part of the game that was receiving the most investment wasn't being played for most.
Lastly the whinning about mounts was promptly reversed after the protodrakes fiasco in WotLK, because it was about to mess the meta-achievements HARD if they kept doing it. Besides as said there is a very elegant solution:

Right now Blizzard has a fine solution to exclusize content, at least with respect to raid mounts. We get a 100% drop on the final boss during current progression, and then a reduced 1 or so % drop chance when the content is trivialized. This preserves the rarity of the mount (for some time) while still giving people motivation to do older content. And to be perfectly honest, if it weren't for raid mounts I wouldn't be raiding.

[Grocalis]

Correct. I just don't understand why people think they are entitled to see content for not trying. How is that fun at all? If you want story, read a book. A video game is suppose to have obstacles. That's part of the fun.

And who says we are "not trying"? The whole point of difficulty levels is for a person to tune his experience to his level of play. To some people, LFR is the cap of skill they want to pursue, and in other cases, that is Normal, or Heroic.

Videos games are not always just about obstacles. I don't play Super Mario on the Wii because it's hard, I play it because it's fun and relaxing. When I get on HALO, and decide to play Single Player, I can pick Easy, Normal, Hard, or Legendary. Same content, but some easier then others. Guess what, most pick Normal or Easy, because not everyone plays for the difficulty itself.

[Dreknar20]

Like it or not, story is a fairly big part of at least some video games these days. I do think that LFR is too easy for the level of loot it gives, but I have no problem with what flex raid is sounding like, a step between faceroll lfr and normal modes.

Beyond cutscenes, raids themselves dont really give much "story", Lei Shen screaming "I am the Thunder King!" dsnt contribute much to the lore.
Hell, the dungeon journal has more info in terms of lore than the actual raid

[Florena]

Soon, WoW will be nothing more than an interactive version of YouTube based around the Warcraft universe (if it isn't already). Is that what you want? It saddens me to think people don't want to use their brains to have fun. That's what RPGs are all about! Playing a character. Being a hero. Overcoming all obstacles when they seemed impossible to overcome. I guess people that enjoy an "interactive movie" type of game will never fully understand the fun of chilling out in a raid group, talking to friends while wiping to a boss, and then, when they finally defeat that boss, the screams of joy that follow. It's unreal how amazing that feeling is. If you haven't experienced it, then I'm truly sorry.

I have. Been raiding since Naxxramas (wrath version) and enjoy it, though my guild's hit a bit of a snag with throne of thunder. I enjoy normal mode much more than lfr. But that doesn't mean everyone does. Or that everyone has the time/skill to clear normal raids. And I think everyone should be able to see the ends of these stories, because the raid stories are tied into the zones and dungeons and scenarios now that come before them. I don't enjoy lfr personally, but just because I don't like it and prefer normal modes doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist, or that people with less time/skill than me shouldn't get to see the conclusion to the stories they see built up in quests etc.

[Phasma]

And who says we are "not trying"? The whole point of difficulty levels is for a person to tune his experience to his level of play. To some people, LFR is the cap of skill they want to pursue, and in other cases, that is Normal, or Heroic.

Videos games are not always just about obstacles. I don't play Super Mario on the Wii because it's hard, I play it because it's fun and relaxing. When I get on HALO, and decide to play Single Player, I can pick Easy, Normal, Hard, or Legendary. Same content, but some easier then others. Guess what, most pick Normal or Easy, because not everyone plays for the difficulty itself.

To some of us, the content is the reward. So, when we complete LFR, that's 90% of our fun taken away. The only fun we get to see is the final boss they put in heroic modes and there is absolutely no reward for defeating it other than loot.

[Dreknar20]

To some of us, the content is the reward. So, when we complete LFR, that's 90% of our fun taken away.

Imagine that, once upon a time just the simple act of doing the raid, seeing the bosses and environments, was a reward/accomplishment in itself

[Grocalis]

To some of us, the content is the reward. So, when someone does LFR and completes the raid, that's 90% of our fun taken away. The only fun we get to see is the final boss they put in heroic modes.

So what you are telling me, is you DON'T play for difficulty, you play for prestige.

Imagine that, once upon a time just the simple act of doing the raid, seeing the bosses and environments, was a reward/accomplishment in itself

And to some of us, it still is. It's only those that can't feel special unless they get exclusive content that whine about the content itself no longer feeling rewarding.

[Dreknar20]

So what you are telling me, is you DON'T play for difficulty, you play for prestige.

they go hand in hand
The higher difficulty means less people can accomplish it, means higher glory/prestige for those that can

[Grocalis]

they go hand in hand
The higher difficulty means less people can accomplish it, means higher glory/prestige for those that can

Exactly, which has nothing to do with the content itself. If you play for difficulty, you will do Heroic Raids regardless of LFR players dealing with a watered down version. Those that only actually want prestige will argue the content itself needs to be exclusive.

[Phasma]

So what you are telling me, is you DON'T play for difficulty, you play for prestige.



And to some of us, it still is. It's only those that can't feel special unless they get exclusive content that whine about the content itself no longer feeling rewarding.

Prestige is a bonus, but that isn't the fun of it all. That's the end result of the fun. The fun is doing the encounters without being able to see all of them in the same run. LFR and Normal modes completely ruin that.

[Grocalis]

Prestige is a bonus, but that isn't the fun of it all. That's the end result of the fun. The fun is doing the encounters without being able to see all of them in the same run. LFR and Normal completely ruin that.

Then why do you actually care? Only do heroic raids, then you won't have to see what happens in LFR and Normal. You will see the content as you deem the best. Why remove content from other players, if all you want is difficulty? Why does them doing the same content take away 90% of your fun if it's not about prestige?

[Phasma]

Then why do you actually care? Only do heroic raids, then you won't have to see what happens in LFR and Normal. You will see the content as you deem the best. Why remove content from other players, if all you want is difficulty? Why does them doing the same content take away 90% of your fun if it's not about prestige?

I wish it was like that, but that's the flaw of the game, unfortunately. You have to gear up for heroic raids in order to do them! Also, who is foolish enough to take the hard route when the easy route is right in front of them? It takes away the fun because experiencing the content for the first time is more fun than repeating it.

[Dreknar20]

And to some of us, it still is.

An accomplishment is hardly an accomplishment if everyone has also it

---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 06:22 AM ----------

You have to gear up for heroic raids in order to do them! Also, who is foolish enough to take the hard route when the easy route is right in front of them? It takes away the fun because experiencing the content for the first time is more fun than repeating it.

Something I think Lore said, players will take the easiest route, even if they fucking hate themsleves for doing so in the process

[darkwarrior42]

Eh. More like "Here's a book. Anyone can read it to see the last chapter, but you have to actually read it."

In this analogy, LFR is the equivalent of book companies publishing 'LFBooks' that only have the last page printed for people who don't have the time to read the book to experience it. The irony being that they could have just flipped to the last page of a normal book if they wanted, via YouTube.

Actually, a better analogy would be that raids are dense, thick tomes with a great deal of detail that are very difficult to understand. LFR would be the movie based on the book. Flex mode would be an annotated version of the book with some vocabulary swaps to make it easier to understand. Normal mode books might have the notes and annotations, but no vocabulary swaps so you still have to understand a higher level of language. Heroic mode books would have no notes or annotations, and only those capable of fully understanding every reference, every metaphor, and every difficult word can actually read the book and get anything out of it.

Which means your argument is that difficult books should never have movies made about them, and shouldn't have annotated editions to help people understand. Either you can read and fully comprehend to book, or you have no right to know the story.

[Grocalis]

I wish it was like that, but that's the flaw of the game, unfortunately. You have to gear up for heroic raids in order to do them! Also, who is foolish enough to take the hard route when the easy route is right in front of them?

Do you? Get a decent guild and use those skills you supposedly have.

Let me be honest here. There is reason people take the easy route. Most people don't care about difficulty. People that do care about difficulty, just do Heroic Raids and don't care about what the LFR players are doing.

Those that argue exclusivity care more about the ego, because they don't feel the content itself is "worth it" unless someone else is being left out.

An accomplishment is hardly an accomplishment if everyone has also it

Depends on what is being accomplished. This is a video game, not the Olympics. When I get an achievement, or a mount, or a interesting pet, or reach exalted with a faction, I feel accomplished. I don't give a damn if every person in the world also owns my Amber Scorpion that I ride, I will enjoy riding it all the same.

[darkwarrior42]

I wish it was like that, but that's the flaw of the game, unfortunately. You have to gear up for heroic raids in order to do them! Also, who is foolish enough to take the hard route when the easy route is right in front of them? It takes away the fun because experiencing the content for the first time is more fun than repeating it.

If that's your opinion, the problem is you. Is the point of a challenge the thrill of overcoming a difficult encounter? Or is it that you can brag about your accomplishments to people who haven't been able to complete it?

Statements like "Also, who is foolish enough to take the hard route when the easy route is right in front of them?" strongly imply you see no difference between completing something at the easy difficulty level, and completing it at the hardest. If that's the case, you clearly don't play for challenge, so heroic modes aren't for you, because you clearly don't care about the challenge of completion.

If I had my way, all difficulties of raid would give the exact same ilvl gear, with higher levels of difficulty giving gear that is more visually impressive. No gearing up for heroics, no overgearing normal, just a question of skill. If you're skilled enough to do heroic, great. If you need to do normal a few times to practice and get some gear first, go for it, but at the end of the day if you're not good enough, you just can't complete heroic. Of course, everyone can complete LFR... but that does not diminish the accomplishment of those who complete heroic.

[Frogged]

Actually, a better analogy would be that raids are dense, thick tomes with a great deal of detail that are very difficult to understand. LFR would be the movie based on the book. Flex mode would be an annotated version of the book with some vocabulary swaps to make it easier to understand. Normal mode books might have the notes and annotations, but no vocabulary swaps so you still have to understand a higher level of language. Heroic mode books would have no notes or annotations, and only those capable of fully understanding every reference, every metaphor, and every difficult word can actually read the book and get anything out of it.

Which means your argument is that difficult books should never have movies made about them, and shouldn't have annotated editions to help people understand. Either you can read and fully comprehend to book, or you have no right to know the story.

Your analogy doesn't work. Heroic mode does have annotations. DBM, guides, the Dungeon Journal, etc. Additionally, you do have a right to know the story. From YouTube. Nothing is stopping anyone from experiencing the story. That's where your movie adaptation analogy falls short. It already happens. All of these things already happen, and what LFR does is after all of these annotations, movie versions, and various other things come into play, players still complain to the author until they take the original book and simplify it to a level which is suitable for everyone.

I'm saying somewhere, somehow, that original book needs to exist. You can argue that it does through Heroic Modes, but I would argue that I bought a book which has a summary full of spoilers on the first page, spends the next 30 pages with a more detailed summary, and then finally starts the book on page 32. And I can't skip the first 31 pages. I have to do LFR for bosses I've missed in the normal raid to get Titan Runestones. I physically have to complete Normal mode before stepping into Heroic Mode.

I say, leave the movie adaptations to YouTube. Leave the annotations to addons/DJ. After all this, present the raid as it was meant to be presented. And let me be perfectly clear, aside from being forced into Normal mode once, I have no qualms with Flex Mode or Normal Mode. I actually enjoy these difficulties because they ease players into raiding and some may eventually make their way to my recruitment page. I was asking for an Easy Mode like Flex before it had been announced.

It's LFR that kills things. It's a great tool to have and should remain in the game, but should not be part of the progression path, ever. It shouldn't have any loot rewards or have any incentive to go there for any reason other than to see bosses with your own eyes, so to speak.

[Phasma]

Do you? Get a decent guild and use those skills you supposedly have.

Let me be honest here. There is reason people take the easy route. Most people don't care about difficulty. People that do care about difficulty, just do Heroic Raids and don't care about what the LFR players are doing.

Those that argue exclusivity care more about the ego, because they don't feel the content itself is "worth it" unless someone else is being left out.

Look, I'm not an elitist jerk. All I'm saying is that I'd rather not see all of the content in less time than it took to create. You receive loot that everyone else has as a reward, anyway. Where is the fun in that? I'm not seeing it.

[Grocalis]

Look, I'm not an elitist jerk. All I'm saying is that I'd rather not see all of the content in less time than it took to create. You receive loot that everyone else has as a reward, anyway. Where is the fun? I'm not seeing it.

And I am not seeing why myself having the same loot as everyone else matters to me.