Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Deleted]

Oh those are all facts i'm sure, they just aren't relevant facts as to why their was an overall subscriber loss. Once again if I unsubbed from wow and wrote in the crying little peon box "fairies made me do it" would you as a developer take that stated reason seriously? It was a fact that I wrote that shit out. Wether or not it was a fact in real life or a fact in so far as my actual reason for unsubbing is another matter entirely.


I'm sure everything you said is true. I'm positive however that overall it isn't relevant, just like I'm positive the fairy tales being touted as conventional or popular wisdom aren't relevant.

Ok ur welcome to totally change your argument and backtrack on your assessment of facts.... ill allow u to do that.

But your childish bullshit to compare well defined and relevant arguemnts to fairytales is laughable... it just shows that u actually dont have any coherent argument against it. Its easier for u to throw insults than to discuss. So far u havent given 1 reason why this subject of exclusivity is not a factor in why people r unsubbing... against myself who has listed several reasons (the facts above) why it is.

If u actually spent the time read what other people write instead of assuming other posters r all 'wrong' and 'blow hards' then u will see my point was that its a factor which deserves to be discussed when discussing recent sub losses. If u think it isnt then ur extremely beyond help.

The recent decline in subs is for many reasons, some reasons more relevant than others. But theyre ALL RELEVANT.

Im sure u have your own opinion on why the subs r dropping at an alarming rate, or maybe u dont think theyre declining at all. Either way, your hostility to others discussing the sub losses and their precursors shows u must have a bulletproof explanation right?

[TheBigPapi]

What did you people do before LFR? Obviously you enjoyed the game or you wouldn't still be playing, so what kept you playing if you couldn't raid?

This is 1 fact that is completely ignored by most people who defend LFR Point is, its easier now with free loot. Rather than admit that they were having fun for years before LFR, people just get defensive about it.

[Glorious Leader]

Ok ur welcome to totally change your argument and backtrack on your assessment of facts.... ill allow u to do that.

But your childish bullshit to compare well defined and relevant arguemnts to fairytales is laughable... it just shows that u actually dont have any coherent argument against it. Its easier for u to throw insults than to discuss. So far u havent given 1 reason why this subject of exclusivity is not a factor in why people r unsubbing... against myself who has listed several reasons (the facts above) why it is.

If u actually spent the time read what other people write instead of assuming other posters r all 'wrong' and 'blow hards' then u will see my point was that its a factor which deserves to be discussed when discussing recent sub losses. If u think it isnt then ur extremely beyond help.

The recent decline in subs is for many reasons, some reasons more relevant than others. But theyre ALL RELEVANT.

Im sure u have your own opinion on why the subs r dropping at an alarming rate, or maybe u dont think theyre declining at all. Either way, your hostility to others discussing the sub losses and their precursors shows u must have a bulletproof explanation right?

They are not relevant in the slightest. They are about as relevant as the tooth fairy. Now you may not agree with that opinion but surely my opinion on this matter is relevant isn't it? It's a good thing you people aren't robots. Your heads may explode.

[Deleted]

They are not relevant in the slightest. They are about as relevant as the tooth fairy. Now you may not agree with that opinion but surely my opinion on this matter is relevant isn't it? It's a good thing you people aren't robots. Your heads may explode.

And we r all still waiting for your bulletproof explanation to explain the subs losses... along with facts ofc.

Your childish insults just hide your weak opinions.

[Glorious Leader]

And we r all still waiting for your bulletproof explanation to explain the subs losses... along with facts ofc.

Your childish insults just hide your weak opinions.

Here's a fact. It's currently raining outside my house. Subs have dropped.

The who have about as much to do with each other as your "facts" do.

I can give my anecdotal experience based on the "facts" of me asking people I know why they left. They left because their progression at 90 was severly hampered and gated. RNG is no fun and neither are dailies.

[Deleted]

Here's a fact. It's currently raining outside my house. Subs have dropped.

The who have about as much to do with each other as your "facts" do.

I can give my anecdotal experience based on the "facts" of me asking people I know why they left. They left because their progression at 90 was severly hampered and gated. RNG is no fun and neither are dailies.

Just as we all thought... u have no opinions or anything meaningful to add to this discussion.

Ur simply a troll who is just abusing everyone on this thread.

Congrats.

[Destruktion]

I can give my anecdotal experience based on the "facts" of me asking people I know why they left. They left because their progression at 90 was severly hampered and gated. RNG is no fun and neither are dailies.

Fact: RNG has always been at the core of success in this game and indeed all MMORPGs.
Fact: Repeatable content has been a staple of WoW since the beginning. The difference between now and then is the type of repeatable content that is most prominent.
Opinion: Players who do not enjoy RNG and repeatable content should not play MMORPGs.

[TheBigPapi]

You're making the most common logical fallacy on Earth "post hoc ergo propter hoc". Look it up.
Also, numbers don't lie when read by a competent person. Somehow I doubt your competence on the subject.

Since we're making assumptions, I'm going to go ahead and do the same. I take it you;re an angry housewife who has been corrected in game about how you are in fact quite bad at it and rejected from many guilds or pugs. How does that sound? By your logic, since you aren't very "competent" at this game then perhaps you should refrain from speaking about it. There, aren't we glad we did this? Man I'm glad these types of discussions turn into pissing matches.

[Glorious Leader]

Fact: RNG has always been at the core of success in this game and indeed all MMORPGs.
Fact: Repeatable content has been a staple of WoW since the beginning. The difference between now and then is the type of repeatable content that is most prominent.
Opinion: Players who do not enjoy RNG and repeatable content should not play MMORPGs.

No it hasn't. The core and success of this game ahs always been character progression. In vanilla and tbc for casual players this was mostly thorugh the lvling process. Now that that is no longer the case anymore they soon find out at lvl that that smooth progression they enjoyed from 1-90 comes to a grinding halt and their is no alternative. They log in for what limited time they can log in for and get nothing out of it. Even in the past they would potentially get a level and talent point. Well that all went out he fucking window..

Your opinion is all well and good and I hope people leave in droves over it. The developers unforuntaely cannot simple accept people leaving or shouldn't accept it just because you have a fetish or happen to think that "mmos" stand for this or that. WoW has always been less mmo than every other mmo anyway and was designed as such from the get go. They could call it super adventure happy time for all I fucking care.

[TheBigPapi]

And here that spurious moralizing rears its ugly head again. It may be fair to do that. It may also be a fail game design.

Considering the game was far more successful when it was being designed this way, I wouldnt say its such a fail design.

[Grocalis]

Considering the game was far more successful when it was being designed this way, I wouldnt say its such a fail design.

That assumes it was due to the design it was successful, rather then in-spite of said design. WOTLK was the top of the crop when it came to the games success, and it was when things were at the most convenient for casuals. One of the reasons Cataclysm and MoP are not doing so well was due to a reduction of convenience. LFR will not made up for all the other errors Blizzard has made in the casual game.

[Glorious Leader]

That assumes it was due to the design it was successful, rather then in-spite of said design. WOTLK was the top of the crop when it came to the games success, and it was when things were at the most convenient for casuals. One of the reasons Cataclysm and MoP are not doing so well was due to a reduction of convenience. LFR will not made up for all the other errors Blizzard has made in the casual game.

That's a bingo.

[Tomana]

Since we're making assumptions, I'm going to go ahead and do the same. I take it you;re an angry housewife who has been corrected in game about how you are in fact quite bad at it and rejected from many guilds or pugs. How does that sound? By your logic, since you aren't very "competent" at this game then perhaps you should refrain from speaking about it. There, aren't we glad we did this? Man I'm glad these types of discussions turn into pissing matches.

Now you're making another (informal) fallacy called "ad hominem". Soon we'll make it through the whole list.
Also, I've cleared all BC and LK raiding content while it was relevant, so "how you are in fact quite bad" is rather hilarious.

[therealbowser]

TBC kept people in the game because there was more to do. Right now, Blizzard has a nice little path for you to follow. They didn't really have one in TBC, you made your own path. And that's a big thing I miss that we lost somewhere down the line. Besides that, Karazhan was amazing, and the heroics were decent progression.

Still, this was years ago. The game changes as does its community. This kind of stuff doesn't stay the same forever. TBC quality is below the level of quality we want now, and that's not unreasonable. When TBC first released, people were ecstatic about the amount of quests you were able to do. Questing in Hellfire Peninsula was amazing after dealing with vanilla questing. But today? TBC content is looked at as outdated and boring. This alone should tell you something.

Personally, I think TBC was this game's best years, but I don't want it back. It's too old-fashioned now, but at the time, it was amazing. No rose-tinted glasses here.

As for exclusivity, I don't know what to tell you. They basically did what you are saying. Mimiron's head is now a ludicrously rare drop, where as it was dropping 100% of the time previously. It's also ludicrously expensive on the black market if you go there for it. They are obtainable... but only barely. They are harder to get now than they were during their actual content in TBC, and that's saying something. This is a good thing, and I think that's fine.

Now you whining about there being content only for the 1% is a load of garbage. Sorry but this crap doesn't fly. This is the one thing I hated about TBC and the one thing I am glad is gone. Everyone deserves to be able to enjoy this content. WotLK did it adaquately, late Cataclysm/Pandaria has/is doing it much better. Here's my question to you, once you get unsuspended, OP... why is it such a big issue that there be 'exclusive content' for heroic raiders beyond what they already have? A bonus boss here and there and achievements and rewards are fine, but an entire raid progression just for them? Are you serious? This is freaking archaic, only done to make you feel good about yourself and pretend to have some vain power over other players, provided you even are a heroic raider (which I extremely highly doubt).

[Tomana]

TBC kept people in the game because there was more to do.

Sentences like that leave me rather perplexed. What could you do in BC that you can't do in MOP? Except skirmishes, nothing.
BC had dailies, 5-mans, BGs, arena and raids just like MOP does.

[Deleted]

That assumes it was due to the design it was successful, rather then in-spite of said design. WOTLK was the top of the crop when it came to the games success, and it was when things were at the most convenient for casuals. One of the reasons Cataclysm and MoP are not doing so well was due to a reduction of convenience. LFR will not made up for all the other errors Blizzard has made in the casual game.

Most would argue that Wrath was the turning point of making the game accessible to casuals and thats expanded into MoP.. That makes MoP the most casual friendly expansion, not Wrath.

[Glorious Leader]

Most would argue that Wrath was the turning point of making the game accessible to casuals and thats expanded into MoP.. That makes MoP the most casual friendly expansion, not Wrath.

If you actually believe this I've got some swamp land for sale at a bargain price...

Mists is the LEAST casual friendly expansion and subsequently casuals were not engaged.

[Deathgoose]

And we r all still waiting for your bulletproof explanation to explain the subs losses... along with facts ofc.

Your childish insults just hide your weak opinions.

The same can easily be said about you. Unless you have the hard data from every customer that left and all of those reasons state "Content not exclusive enough" then you have not properly demonstrated causality.

And listing your opinion and that of every single person on MMO-C that says the same thing? What does that amount to, ~1000 people? 2000? How many subs did they lose in the posting? Something like 1.3 million? I'll be generous and say that 5000 MMO-C posters agree that the reason they left is "lack of exclusive content".

5000 out of 1.3million is 0.384% of the people that left. You'd have to increase your anecdotal examples to 13000 separate examples just to hit 1% of the amount of lost subs, and even then, ~1% can be reasonably dismissed as a statistical anamoly.

Now, you can offer your theories, absolutely. But you can not declare your theory any more based in fact than the next guy without the raw data that no one in this discussion has.

[Tomana]

Most would argue that Wrath was the turning point of making the game accessible to casuals and thats expanded into MoP.. That makes MoP the most casual friendly expansion, not Wrath.

From the time commitment point of view, it's not. There is a lot of content and doing even part of it takes a lot of time. In particular, splitting 5-mans and rep and making VPs taking longer to build up did not improve the "casual friendly" side of MOP.

[Deleted]

If you actually believe this I've got some swamp land for sale at a bargain price...

Mists is the LEAST casual friendly expansion and subsequently casuals were not engaged.

Now u have proven loud and clear just how clueless ur lol

LFD and LFR were the 2 biggest additions to the game which were purely to cater for the casuals. U can add every other queing system in the game to that. All queing either added in Wrath or later.

Pet battles, transmogging, cross-realm functionality, Black Market AH... all casual friendly additions.

U can also add the reduction of grind, simplification of crafting, simplification of talent trees also to moving the game towards casuals.

Anything added to the game which means u can do stuff solo without socialising with others is generally what caters to casuals. If u dont have to join a guild to get it done then its pretty much casual content.

methinks u have fallen into the trap of believing that casual additions to the game r purely raid related.