Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Glorious Leader]

High minded? They want to keep the players who aren't arrogant babies who quit at the first sign of a challenge but keep the players who have endeared through the worst and are still here.

"Primarily from the east" could mean 51% they didn't give you a hard and fast number so you can dismiss that. Unless you want to accept the lie of course. They have nerfed the hell out of normal tot. Horridon got his 2nd (?3rd) nerf this week. Again high minded ARROGANT snobbery. Keep holding your noses up at those players.

[isadorr]

Because you confuse skill with time spent. Only MMOs get that mix-up.

You realize that raiding guilds spend far less time raiding than the average guilds? The raiding that bad/casual guilds do all through the tier while guilds that are done take months off and only log on to mess with the AH or gear a alt for fun. We do content far faster and finish it months ahead of others yet you still try to use the time spent card? Bad's never stop at their sorry excuses for their failure at a simple game that children often play better than they do. Any other excuse you would like to use? While bad players wipe all tier and never clear heroics I dont play Wow at all, so try to come up with something new please.

[Ronduwil]

That's a really sad stat if it's true. 65% play mmos solo? Hopefully there are more variables in that stat he didn't mention. If not, what's the point of mmos at this point even?

Expensive always-online DRM.

Sadly that was my first thought too.

People like options. I enjoy being able to play with a bunch of my friends, but if they all have other commitments or are unable to maintain their subscriptions I also like having something else to do while they're away. Why does it always have to be one or the other? Just because your'e part of a persistent world doesn't mean that your experience has to be tied to everyone else's for the entirety of your game play.

[Glorious Leader]

Alternatives pale in comparison to LFR and what you had in cata and wrath because of? Stating your sentence in different ways doesn't really explain anything at all. In MoP, there are so many more alternatives than dungeons yet they pale to endless dungeon grind in some way according to you. Mist is not engaging to casuals even though Blizzard has created many more ways to engage them because all of those ways pales in some mysterious way?

My guess is that you mean the rewards are not good enough but I don't want to guess what's in your mind. So please explain why do you consider MoP's alternatives pale in comparison to LFR and what you had (crafting and endless dungeon grind).

because I could buy tier pieces from valor
because I could cap valor in 7 dungeons
because the valor gear wasn't hidden behind reputation requirements

They haven't created any method that SERIOUSLY engages casuals. They've thrown "content" at them but hidden all the progression behind lfr and the other systems that had progression behind them (say dailies in 5.0) were casual unfriendly and basically just grinds without ends. I'll give them credit this situation is better now than it was in 5.0. It is however not as good as it was in cataclysm or in wotlk.

[Osmeric]

I think you would leave rather frustrated after seeing so many of your posts about difficulty and the majority in the game. I think you would be in a for a big suprise as the developers get a much bigger say than you realize in the design in the game unless they all lie at this dinner which is very transparent.

I could believe that the developers might idly think that most people could do the content if they "really tried". This is of course not a falsifiable belief, since most people never will "really try" (and if they do try and fail, the developers can just say they weren't "really trying" enough.)

The actual stats show that most players will never do hard content. And that's all that really matters. The developers surely recognize that, in practice, normal and above raid modes are beyond the difficulty level that most players consider acceptable for their game experiences.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:50 PM ----------

That would also not surprise me if they were lying to you. They probably have a good idea who attends this sort of function and likely tailor the event ahead of time.

That's a more plausible explanation.

[isadorr]

"Primarily from the east" could mean 51% they didn't give you a hard and fast number so you can dismiss that. Unless you want to accept the lie of course. They have nerfed the hell out of normal tot. Horridon got his 2nd (?3rd) nerf this week. Again high minded ARROGANT snobbery. Keep holding your noses up at those players.

Wouldn't it be more honest to talk about your failure at the game and take responsibility instead of attempting to act as if you are the speaker for bad players? Again you want to reward bad players for being bad. Imagine how crazy it would be if there were less people like you and the bad's became better players then more would be laughing 'saying i cant believe i thought normal was hard'. I let a friend come along on the alt run just so he could get his full clear as his casual guild was horrible and after the run he said the same thing, i cant believe how easy this content is.

[Destruktion]

As a healer, that was pretty much the only thing I could do without having to commit a significant chunk of my time on a regular basis. Dailies don't require healers. Scenarios don't require healers. Brawler's guild isn't healer friendly. If I want to do Pet Battles I'll just play through the many Pokemon games that we have for our Game Cube, Wii, GB Advance, and DS. I won't have to pay $15 a month to play those. What's left for me? LFR (pseudo-raiding) and raiding. If you think LFR is an exciting activity for casuals think again. Your perception of a victory for casuals only applies if LFR was in response to casuals' demand for access to raiding. However, since it was actually a booby prize to compensate for the fact that most of the focus nowadays is on putting out raids it's not really a victory.

Maybe this is an excuse to have more world group content like there used to be. You could have quest chains and dailies that actually require a healer present to complete.

Maybe someone should start a new thread on this.

I'm sure the devs at Blizzard have thought long and hard on this. It's a tough problem, and I'm not at all sure it even has a solution.

Classic WoW had a near-perfect balance of all types of content. There was plenty to do endgame if you didn't raid. Why Blizzard migrated away from that model still makes no sense to me.

If that is truly the attitude they are bringing to the design, Morhaime has been remiss in not handing them pink slips. They are not being paid six figure salaries to reward skill, they are being paid to bring in money.

But I don't think that's the attitude they have, or at least not anymore. These days, I think they've resigned themselves to trying to get the majority any way they can, but they also (and this is hurting them) want to cater to the top 10% with hard raids. I don't think these goals are all that compatible, though.

It's a conundrum, to be sure. I think part of it is that the encounter team likes to design tough encounters. I can't imagine it's any more fun for them to just design easier encounters because that's all the majority can handle. Imagine if you were asked to stop designing board games like Twilight Imperium and start designing board games like Candy Land because the latter were selling much better.

Mists isn't a serious attempt to engage them.

That is complete bullshit, and you know it.

[Ronduwil]

While bad players wipe all tier and never clear heroics I dont play Wow at all, so try to come up with something new please.

You're not making a strong business case for why Blizzard should focus on generating difficult content here.

[Aquamonkey]

People like options. I enjoy being able to play with a bunch of my friends, but if they all have other commitments or are unable to maintain their subscriptions I also like having something else to do while they're away. Why does it always have to be one or the other? Just because your'e part of a persistent world doesn't mean that your experience has to be tied to everyone else's for the entirety of your game play.

That's not what the Wild Star people are saying. It's not that 65% play occasionally with other people, they play solo. For them, it might as well be an offline game.

[Glorious Leader]

Wouldn't it be more honest to talk about your failure at the game and take responsibility instead of attempting to act as if you are the speaker for bad players? Again you want to reward bad players for being bad. Imagine how crazy it would be if there were less people like you and the bad's became better players then more would be laughing 'saying i cant believe i thought normal was hard'. I let a friend come along on the alt run just so he could get his full clear as his casual guild was horrible and after the run he said the same thing, i cant believe how easy this content is.

My "failure" at the game isn't the issue here. I'm 12/12 normal. What would be more honest is if you were to come right out and admit that the goal behind your posts is to shift the burden of responsibility from the developers ( who are entirely 100% at fault) to the players as a means of disempowering and disenfranchizing them. Now I get that you don't care if those players all leave but I 'm sure they do to an extent (they want to have fun) and the bean counters really running the show at activision blizzard really do as well. It's very convenient and easy for you to sit there and yes be high minded and snobbish and hold your nose up at the filthy casual player base and then take their money to make the content you love. It's very ENTITLED of you.

[isadorr]

I could believe that the developers might idly think that most people could do the content if they "really tried". This is of course not a falsifiable belief, since most people never will "really try" (and if they do try and fail, the developers can just say they weren't "really trying" enough.)

The actual stats show that most players will never do hard content. And that's all that really matters. The developers surely recognize that, in practice, normal and above raid modes are beyond the difficulty level that most players consider acceptable for their game experiences.

---------- Post added 2013-06-28 at 09:50 PM ----------



That's a more plausible explanation.

They added Flex raiding for the bad players just so they don't have to nerf normal content which shows they don't think Normal is too difficult for the average player. Flex raiding just proves that there are a lot of really bad players that need pre-nerfed NORMAL content just to possibly clear the content before the next tier. The best part is that Flex rewards 536 ilvl and normal is 553ivl so what do Flex players do after clearing normal mode Flex? They are going to jump the 17ilvls to Normal mode or 566 for heroic modes? It is just there to quiet the whining even if it is only temporary.

Now you go as far as saying Blizzard employees are lying because it doesn't fit your agenda that they believe the game on Normal mode isn't difficult. So hundreds of people at this event all lie which is interesting as many casual players were rather pissed off when they asked about casual game play and difficulty, i guess they only lie to certain marked people.

[Glorious Leader]

Now you go as far as saying Blizzard employees are lying because it doesn't fit your agenda that they believe the game on Normal mode isn't difficult. So hundreds of people at this event all lie which is interesting as many casual players were rather pissed off when they asked about casual game play and difficulty, i guess they only lie to certain marked people.

Like any good politician or political group they play to their audience. Happens all the time. They all tow the party line which changes given the crowd your with. Politics 101 baby.

[Tomana]

You realize that raiding guilds spend far less time raiding than the average guilds? The raiding that bad/casual guilds do all through the tier while guilds that are done take months off and only log on to mess with the AH or gear a alt for fun. We do content far faster and finish it months ahead of others yet you still try to use the time spent card?

Right, because there are only good raiders and bad raiders in WoW. There is no such thing as non-raiders. Oh but wait! There is!!!
It's simple: in any raid guild, you have serious time commitments. Yes, the time spent is not a linear function of the guild level. But there is a minimum time commitment. And a lot of people cannot (or no longer can, in my case) afford it. Is it so complicated to understand?

[isadorr]

You're not making a strong business case for why Blizzard should focus on generating difficult content here.

Different levels of play is going to lead to different levels of completion just as not everyone is entitled to see all of the content. Just because some struggle on Normal mode doesnt mean that it is too hard, it means people have been hand fed too long. 30% nerfs in DS and ICC making people feel like good raiders then struggling through T14 because there was no nerfs to carry them to Tot where again they didnt do well without nerfs. Blizzard knows they can't keep up the model of nerfing content to that level so they are making FLEX raids for them while leaving Normal mode (average) and Heroic modes alone.

[Floopa]

I love how Osermic and 'Glorious Leader' are on a crusade to make this game even more of a joke than it is at the moment. Hint: this game isn't hard. Pressing Q/E/W (stafe L/strafe R/move forward for me) for 2 seconds every 15-20 seconds is by no means difficult.

[isadorr]

Like any good politician or political group they play to their audience. Happens all the time. They all tow the party line which changes given the crowd your with. Politics 101 baby.

Shouldn't they be catering the casual if they are the majority though, wouldn't that in fact be more 'votes' than the minority?

[wow2011]

because I could buy tier pieces from valor
because I could cap valor in 7 dungeons
because the valor gear wasn't hidden behind reputation requirements

They haven't created any method that SERIOUSLY engages casuals. They've thrown "content" at them but hidden all the progression behind lfr and the other systems that had progression behind them (say dailies in 5.0) were hideously uncasual friendly and basically just grinds without ends. I'll give them credit this situation is better now than it was in 5.0. It is however not as good as it was in cataclysm or in wotlk.

Ok, so we have arrived at a more tangible reason for why you consider casual character progression is bad. You do not like the fact that the casual character progression isn't efficient enough and not rewarding enough. You feel that tier pieces are the real character progression while ilvl progression isn't real. I guess the same can be assumed for legendary quest.

I guess this is another discussion on its own and I won't be making comment about it in this thread. Though I want to quickly say that this still doesn't "prove" or "imply" Blizzard doesn't care about casuals and caters to hardcores. They prob don't know that there is a group of players that consider dps/healing/survival increase and ilvl increase as fake character progression while legendary questline + tier pieces as the real progression.

Lastly, a quick qusetion, would you think MoP is good if Blizzard let players get tier pieces and finish legendary quest from doing dailies, pet battles, 5man, scenario, barren, etc?

[Osmeric]

They added Flex raiding for the bad players just so they don't have to nerf normal content which shows they don't think Normal is too difficult for the average player.

It, of course, shows no such thing, since way less than 50% of players are doing normal mode raids now. The average player is 0/12 normal mode in ToT.

Are you using the usual hardcore statistical ad hominem and excluding from consideration those who you think are bad? If so, of course "average" can be raised to any level you want, just by cooking the data enough.

[isadorr]

I love how Osermic and 'Glorious Leader' are on a crusade to make this game even more of a joke than it is at the moment. Hint: this game isn't hard. Pressing Q/E/W (stafe L/strafe R/move forward for me) for 2 seconds every 15-20 seconds is by no means difficult.

Amazing that some people can't do that and don't want to accept that so they look so spread the blame to someone else. It really isn't difficult but to say that a human brain is incapable of doing that is sad to even say but seems to be the case for some on here.

[Tomana]

Shouldn't they be catering the casual if they are the majority though, wouldn't that in fact be more 'votes' than the minority?

That's because WoW devs are too "nerdy" and need to be slapped by their finance boss sometimes. Business as usual, common in a lot of companies.