Why is Exclusive content a bad thing to some people?

[Scathbais]

Dont be such a pretentious fool.

You didnt even argue any of my points you just insulted me in a roundabout way. Games are designed to have challenges you eventually overcome, giving everyone everything without putting in any time or effort isnt fun or rewarding, infact you might as well go on a private server if you want everything for free.

Thankfully the game is made by Blizzard and evidently they do share my sentiment if HC modes are still in the game, and still causing massive challenges to the playerbase.

Lastly people already do enjoy WoW, theres enough for them to enjoy, HC raiding is for those that want to be challenged, as such they deserve a little something extra for putting in the effort, not only that but they pave the way for other not so good players to follow. By creating guides, strategies and recording their progress.

Go reread your post that I quoted. You didn't make any arguments at all, just stated your opinions. I can't argue with opinions. All I can do is point out that they are only opinions. Don't pretend that your cursing and rambling was anything remotely approaching a valid argument.

No one is arguing against heroic content. The reward of heroic content is....heroic gear and heroic achievements and often guaranteed mount drops on the last boss. What you are complaining about and arguing against is others getting different rewards for doing non-heroic content. (and by different I mean non-heroic gear and non-heroic achieves).

We all just wonder why you are bothering? It doesn't impact you in any way, shape or form. Worrying about what others are getting/doing is about as worthless as this entire thread and every thread like this one.

---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 03:32 PM ----------

Please tell me how it's a challenge when people can literally do nothing while on /follow and still get through LFD and LFR.

Why do you care? How does it impact you? Don't do LFR then.

[Tomana]

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford
Some people don't know what they want until they've been given a taste.

I disagree. Some people are more competitive by default while others are not.

If you bothered to read, I also said "or that the game even offers it." People looking for a challenge can level cap, clear all content, and feel like they've seen everything without ever being challenged.

I wasn't aware of the fact that heroic raids were not challenging. Maybe I missed the memo.

[Aquamonkey]

Why do you care? How does it impact you? Don't do LFR then.

It's toxic to the game and negatively impacts my progression on alts when people don't carry their weight. I'm not saying they have to top the meters, but they should contribute as much as they are able.

---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 12:39 PM ----------

I disagree. Some people are more competitive by default while others are not.

I said some. My statement is not mutually exclusive with yours.

I wasn't aware of the fact that heroic raids were not challenging. Maybe I missed the memo.

I missed the sign at the front of LFR saying, "This is just the easy-mode version. If you want a challenge, seek heroics."

[Taurenburger]

While I think it is only fair that people who pay as much get to enjoy the same content. On the other hand, it is not fair to make the content such way that you don't even have to be good to see it.

Back in the days (Classic and to a lesser extent TBC), I couldn't get into a lot of content, but I was content with it. I enjoyed playing whatever I was playing, whether it were dungeons, lower raids or battlegrounds. These days, it just doesn't work that way anymore and thus I think it's only fair that everyone gets to see every piece of content (whether the raid is heroic/normal/LFR doesn't matter, as content-wise it's the same).

[The Glitch]

It's toxic to the game and negatively impacts my progression on alts when people don't carry their weight. I'm not saying they have to top the meters, but they should contribute as much as they can.

I find LFR fun, and somewhat challenging when new, I carry my weight and have made some friends through it, LFR has hada positive impact on the way people play the game.

Opinions.

If Heroic raiding and normal raiding is so fun, why then are people not doing it? Why then do they choose a mode that offers worse rewards? Could it be because alot of people don't find scheduled raiding fun? Maybe it's too competitive or intense for them? Maybe they find it hard to find a guild on their realm, but like their realm? Maybe they aren't able to schedule raid due to their real life time schedules?

LFR has let more people participate in end game content since its inception, that ever before. It might not be fun for you, but well you know, you enjoy your heroics, keep doing those and leave LFR for those that do enjoy it and want to do it.

Sorry your alts dislike it so much, but you choose to level alts, and put them through LFR, so you either grin and bear it, or go make a pug and take em through normals or make alt raids with your guild?

[Aquamonkey]

I find LFR fun, and somewhat challenging when new, I carry my weight and have made some friends through it, LFR has hada positive impact on the way people play the game.

Opinions.

If Heroic raiding and normal raiding is so fun, why then are people not doing it? Why then do they choose a mode that offers worse rewards? Could it be because alot of people don't find scheduled raiding fun? Maybe it's too competitive or intense for them? Maybe they find it hard to find a guild on their realm, but like their realm? Maybe they aren't able to schedule raid due to their real life time schedules?

LFR has let more people participate in end game content since its inception, that ever before. It might not be fun for you, but well you know, you enjoy your heroics, keep doing those and leave LFR for those that do enjoy it and want to do it.

Sorry your alts dislike it so much, but you choose to level alts, and put them through LFR, so you either grin and bear it, or go make a pug and take em through normals or make alt raids with your guild?

I'm not saying LFR is toxic. I'm saying that giving people the ability to AFK through multiplayer content is toxic. And people keep spewing BS that it doesn't affect anyone else.

[The Glitch]

I'm not saying LFR is toxic. I'm saying that giving people the ability to AFK through multiplayer content is toxic. And people keep spewing BS that it doesn't affect anyone else.

I must have been really lucky, cause in every LFR run I've been in, I think I can count on one hand the amount of players that have been AFK through a whole run, sure some don't perhaps do as much as others, but I'm fine with that, so long as I'm having fun, and am playing well, and the bosses die, then whats the issue?

I find that people that maybe aren't as skilled or are just not playing to their best, make for a mroe interesting run for me personally, because It gives me a bit more of a challenge, to pick up someone elses slack. So again so long as the bosses die, what does it matter?

[Aquamonkey]

I must have been really lucky, cause in every LFR run I've been in, I think I can count on one hand the amount of players that have been AFK through a whole run, sure some don't perhaps do as much as others, but I'm fine with that, so long as I'm having fun, and am playing well, and the bosses die, then whats the issue?

I find that people that maybe aren't as skilled or are just not playing to their best, make for a mroe interesting run for me personally, because It gives me a bit more of a challenge, to pick up someone elses slack. So again so long as the bosses die, what does it matter?

People getting through content by leeching only encourages others to leech. To pretend that it doesn't affect other people in multiplayer is ludicrous.

[taheen74]

The storyline is what the warcraft books are about. The story is supposed to give the setting and background for the gaming experience, the game isn't supposed to be an interactive book for the story.

Yeah....no...that's not how that works and shouldn't be how that works. That's like telling me to go read the book to see how FF7 ended.

What's the point of making raids if you are going to tell people "To be continued but you have to buy the book..."?

[The Glitch]

People don't like leechers and to pretend that it doesn't affect other people in multiplayer is ludicrous.

I know people don't like leechers, but what I find silly is, why let it bother you if the boss dies, sure if your wiping continuously over and over because some folks aren't pulling their weight, then ask them to fix it, if they don't kick them.

There are ways to deal with them, is it a perfect system? No, but it can work. But you can't go join LFR easy mode, and then complain about people that may genuinely just not be as skilled at the game as you (seeing as that is the mode made specifically for them), if it annoys you so much, then easy mode is obviously not a place you should be.

[LeperHerring]

Yeah....no...that's not how that works and shouldn't be how that works. That's like telling me to go read the book to see how FF7 ended.

It's exactly how it works and should work.

[Kaleredar]

Under the old system, when raiders wanted to get a leg up and fill in gaps in their gear with "lesser" content, they'd go do previous tiers; not the same exact bosses with smaller numbers. Variety is the spice of life. Blizzard combined 10/25 into the same lockout and difficulty because they didn't want people doing the same bosses multiple times a week and getting burned out. Now they're making a 3rd difficulty and 3rd lockout.

People might not like dailies, but at least it's different than doing the same bosses 3 times a week.

This falls apart when the fact that previous tier's raiding gear is better is STILL better than current-tier LFR gear.

So if you want to gear up, you and your guild can run through older tiers of content.

But people don't, because LFR is faster. And whatever is faster automatically becomes the only "viable" avenue of progress, regardless of whether it's the only way or not.

Here's an example: BWL. Say your guild got stuck on Razorgore the Untamed, the first boss. Since LFR did not exist back then, there was no way to bypass him to see the other bosses or even the environment beyond him.

So then, like I said, you just preferred people to just not see it at all? Because a vast, vast majority of people did not, and a vast, vast majority of developer time went into making these things.

[Aquamonkey]

I know people don't like leechers, but what I find silly is, why let it bother you if the boss dies, sure if your wiping continuously over and over because some folks aren't pulling their weight, then ask them to fix it, if they don't kick them.

There are ways to deal with them, is it a perfect system? No, but it can work. But you can't go join LFR easy mode, and then complain about people that may genuinely just not be as skilled at the game as you (seeing as that is the mode made specifically for them), if it annoys you so much, then easy mode is obviously not a place you should be.

I don't go into LFR expecting everyone to do 100k dps. I go into LFR expecting that people play as best as they are able. But when the system allows people to coast on other people's coattails, they don't have any reason to play to their best.

---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 01:10 PM ----------

This falls apart when the fact that previous tier's raiding gear is better is STILL better than current-tier LFR gear.

So if you want to gear up, you and your guild can run through older tiers of content.

But people don't, because LFR is faster. And whatever is faster automatically becomes the only "viable" avenue of progress, regardless of whether it's the only way or not.

Not when you consider set bonuses and trinkets (RPPM says hello). You also didn't consider people who only do normal mode. Current tier LFR > previous tier normal.

[taheen74]

It's exactly how it works and should work.

Then please, show me one WoW book that actually completely ended a raid's storyline.


I have all day...

Arthas doesn't count because that only started the in game storyline and was back story anyways.

[The Glitch]

I don't go into LFR expecting everyone to do 100k dps. I go into LFR expecting that people play as best as they are able. But when the system allows people to coast on other people's coattails, they don't have any reason to play to their best.

And as I said, ask them to fix it, or kick them. I just personally don't find the point in causing a big fuss about 1 or 2 folks being arses. Sure it's not great that they can fanny about and be rewarded the same as those of us in there doing our best, but as I said before, so long as the boss dies, I know I did my best, and can come away from the experience knowing that, then what does it matter?

Now I could see it as an issue, if you were the only one doing anything and the other 24 folks were fannying about. However when does that actually happen? Have you had groups where more than 1-3 people have literally been AFK the whole thing (not including those that are lower on the damage boards etc, that can be puely down to them just not being as skilled and therefore not really the issue)

Have you had lots of LFR runs where you don't complete the wing at all and the groups break up (not including when its just a new tier out , wipes and groups breaking is expected till folks learn) Have you had lots of LFR groups wiping continuously on the same boss for more than say 3 attempts?

Because honestly, I have run LFR every week since it opened in MOP , and have had one time when the group broke up (was early morning hardly anyone on, took over 2 hours to get a group and one of the tanks left as soon as we entered which caused us to sit for 30 mins waiting on another tank, causing the group to break)
I've also only had maybe max of 3 wipes on any of the bosses in all wings. Apart from Lei Shen, which on the first day, our group had 9 wipes before killing him, the group was fab, supportive and friendly, everyone doing their hardest.

I can only go on what my experiences are, but sometimes I feel like some of the stuff mentioned is extremely exaggerated, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just feel like it doesn't happen as often as folks like to make out.

[DrSteveBrule]

But people don't, because LFR is faster. And whatever is faster automatically becomes the only "viable" avenue of progress, regardless of whether it's the only way or not.

We have a winner. Now I'm curious why the fuck you still think LFR should be in the game?
A lot of people will take option A if it's easier and there's not a significant amount of difference between option B for all it's difficulty.

The majority of players really can't be bothered to gem right, pick their talents correctly, reforge properly or even perform their rotation to acceptable levels.
THOSE are the players that shouldn't be beating bosses and unfortunately that's almost anyone who just started the game.

So yes, a lot of people at this point in time aren't able to do that but that's the point.
We all start that way until we get better.
We put time in, we get better.
We get better our rewards get better.

Longevity for subscriptions = $$$

Now you have new players who don't know dick about shit.
There's little reason to player better.
You start bad, you end bad.

No need to stick around for long, later fellas, CoD21, GW44, Halo 13 are out.

Short subs = bad for $$$

[Tomana]

The majority of players really can't be bothered to gem right, pick their talents correctly, reforge properly or even perform their rotation to acceptable levels.
THOSE are the players that shouldn't be beating bosses and unfortunately that's almost anyone who just started the game.

So basically, you want to leave the huge majority of players out in the cold? And you think that they will swallow that and not cancel their subs to play another game?

[Jaylock]

I know people don't like leechers, but what I find silly is, why let it bother you if the boss dies, sure if your wiping continuously over and over because some folks aren't pulling their weight, then ask them to fix it, if they don't kick them.

There are ways to deal with them, is it a perfect system? No, but it can work. But you can't go join LFR easy mode, and then complain about people that may genuinely just not be as skilled at the game as you (seeing as that is the mode made specifically for them), if it annoys you so much, then easy mode is obviously not a place you should be.

This is a complete sidenote to everything you said but...

What movie is that cartoon girl from that is in your avatar and signature?

[Aquamonkey]

This is a complete sidenote to everything you said but...

What movie is that cartoon girl from that is in your avatar and signature?

Wreck-it Ralph

---------- Post added 2013-06-09 at 02:01 PM ----------

Have you had lots of LFR runs where you don't complete the wing at all and the groups break up (not including when its just a new tier out , wipes and groups breaking is expected till folks learn) Have you had lots of LFR groups wiping continuously on the same boss for more than say 3 attempts?

Why doesn't it count when a wing first comes out? It just makes it more obvious when people aren't pulling their weight because the margin is smaller. People fall under more scrutiny when things don't run as smoothly.

Then of course there's Determination. If people aren't up to the already low bar of LFR, there's no need to grow and play better. Blizzard will lower the bar even further.

[DrSteveBrule]

So basically, you want to leave the huge majority of players out in the cold? And you think that they will swallow that and not cancel their subs to play another game?

Yes, because no one here is fucking baby sitting them.

The door to the nice warm house is OPEN... just walk inside.
Oh, is walking too time consuming? You don't want to break a sweat? Freeze your ass off then, don't make me move the house to you.