Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks

[Deleted]

[Jackmoves]

Not because I'm braindwashed as you put it, or afraid. Quite the contrary actually. I want my country to have its fingers deep into the computer networks of every other country on the planet. I want the NSA to gather intelligence like it is.

Thats fine but it's also quite despicable. Now I'm not saying they do this but NSA can basically conduct industrial espionage via Google and Microsofts cloud services by monitoring email that includes some of the largest and most high profile companies around the world, thankfully relatively few large corporations in my country have opened up its internal and external e-mail for the US intelligence from what I can tell by a quick look around.

I did look over the 100 largest Swedish companies btw, and among those whose e-mail system is wide open to NSA you will find companies like Preem and St1 (formerly Shell), Sapa Group, but primarily SSAB, Electrolux, SKF and Volvo Cars.

Microsoft cloud services dominate, where all but SKF and Sapa opened up their communications system that way. SKF and Sapa are using Google's Postini spam filter, which may not make them equally exposed as others as it is hopefully only used for external mail. What lies behind the spam filter I'll leave unsaid.

Now I don't know what the mission is for NSA, it might just be to look for terrorists, but it can also involve providing American industry valuable intelligence. So if you communicate information worth protecting and are operating in an industry where you got american competitors they may actually have an unfair advantage.

Especially sales organizations in other countries may be exposed to the NSA and they also have smaller contractors and consultancies that might expose important information if they in turn use cloud services that NSA monitors.

I find the possibility of that, regardless of them doing it or not quite troubling.

[cubby]

Endangered our freedom and security: Snowden.

If he did something so great, why is he hiding? Why can't he stop lying about his history and the story of how/why he did it? The simple facts are that Snowden released classified documents regarding the United States' spying capability and threatened the security of this nation.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 03:29 PM ----------

Thats fine but it's also quite despicable.

You seem to contradict yourself in the first sentence - something that is fine is also despicable? How/why is it despicable?

[vaeevictiss]

There is tons of grey in the 4th amendment when it comes to electronic data. By in large this is the same data that these companies legally sell and profit is the only reason that they collect it. Having spent 20 years in the Air Force and am now in the Air Force Civil Service holding a security clearence now for almost 3 decades I am well aware that millitary members should not follow unlawful orders. But you had better be prepared to defend your reasoning and there is a chain of command and the JAG as official methods to refute these orders.

oh i know full well of the JAG lol. When i was in (Air Force also). Word made it to my first shirt that i was keeping my firearm in my dorm room. I fought the hell out of it because on most bases they have an armory where you would keep privately owned weapons. Well i was on a little, barely known base in San Antonio, TX by the name of Brooks...and we had no armory. Also, I was able to fight due to the fact that people living in base housing were able to keep their firearms. I was in almost 4 years at that time and a SrA. I simply stated, that it was bullshit that someone fresh out of tech school that married someone 2 weeks after he met her (if you were in 20 years you know im not bullshitting on that lol) and can now live in base housing, is somehow more responsible than me.

Well long story short they still gave me an Article 15, but i got to keep my rank. They would not allow me to test for staff sergeant although, so i just took it upon myself to decide 4 years was enough for me. I did a tour in a combat zone so i can at least say i did my part. I ended up getting a great job due to my training and for that would easily say i would do it all over. It just is not a place for me with all the authority and lack of rights.

thank you for putting in 20 tho. My dad is retired army.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 11:31 AM ----------

Endangered our freedom and security: Snowden.

If he did something so great, why is he hiding? Why can't he stop lying about his history and the story of how/why he did it? The simple facts are that Snowden released classified documents regarding the United States' spying capability and threatened the security of this nation.[COLOR="red"]

because the government has killed people for a lot less.

[Jackmoves]

You seem to contradict yourself in the first sentence. How/why is it despicable?

I think the rest of my post explains why it's wrong.
It's fine that he has that opinion, it's not fine that they do what they do.

[Srg56]

If you're against this guy, you're saying watergate shouldn't have happened. If you're saying that, you're either ignorant, a shill, or extremely dumb. That's all there is to be said here. Educate yourself:
http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/c...leaks-Ellsberg

[cubby]

I think the rest of my post explains why it's wrong.

Not really, I read it once, then read it again after your post re mine. The U.S. has the best spy agency in the world. You already stated you don't know what the mission of the NSA is, so how exactly can you then lay judgement on something you admittedly know nothing about?

(apologies if I'm sounding like a dick, I don't mean to be - just really curious about people who thing Snowden did something other than treason)

[skitzin]

So what enemy did Snowden aid or comfort exactly? The shadows and phantoms of what might have been domestic terrorists that may or may not actually be there?

[cubby]

If you're against this guy, you're saying watergate shouldn't have happened. If you're saying that, you're either ignorant, a shill, or extremely dumb. That's all there is to be said here. Educate yourself:
http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/c...leaks-Ellsberg

You couldn't be more wrong. Reading some post doesn't begin to explain how misaligned your understanding of what Snowden did is. Do you even understand the difference between what Snowden did and what Watergate was?

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 03:36 PM ----------

because the government has killed people for a lot less.

But I thought he didn't do anything wrong . . . . Why should he be worried?

[Kujako]

If you're against this guy, you're saying watergate shouldn't have happened. If you're saying that, you're either ignorant, a shill, or extremely dumb. That's all there is to be said here. Educate yourself:
http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/c...leaks-Ellsberg

Here's the thing. Watergate, etc, where illegal (granted, they wouldn't have been today). I am on this guys side because he is drawing attention to what the current laws allow. But he is not a whistle blower since there are no whistles to be blown. The best way to get bad laws repealed is to publicly enforce them. So the bad news is, he needs to go to jail. What he did is illegal under the current laws (and could perhaps even be treason). If he wants to be a "hero" he needs to stop running and take what's coming. That's how civil disobedience works. Gandhi didn't run away, jail time is an important part of the process. If he gets away with it, then nothing will change.

[Jackmoves]

Not really, I read it once, then read it again after your post re mine. The U.S. has the best spy agency in the world. You already stated you don't know what the mission of the NSA is, so how exactly can you then lay judgement on something you admittedly know nothing about?

(apologies if I'm sounding like a dick, I don't mean to be - just really curious about people who thing Snowden did something other than treason)

Why should I or anyone els trust an american intelligence agency? They have no obligation to serve my country or any other country but the USA.

[Landin55]

If you're against this guy, you're saying watergate shouldn't have happened. If you're saying that, you're either ignorant, a shill, or extremely dumb. That's all there is to be said here. Educate yourself:
http://www.dancarlin.com//disp.php/c...leaks-Ellsberg

Pffft whatever. This guy is just another douche ready to sell any information he got. He just lets people like you protect him. If he did have any real dangerous info he would sell it to the highest bidder in a heart beat. He doesn't care about me, you, innocents, America, the world. Just his paycheck.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 03:42 PM ----------

Why should I or anyone els trust an american intelligence agency? They have no obligation to serve my country or any other country but the USA.

Then don't, but don't trust Snowden cause some people are trying to make him a living martyr.

[Kujako]

To add to the problem, Snowden could simply be wrong (honestly mistaken or otherwise).

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/22750...h-ec-officials

It's easy to believe him, since I just assumed such things where happening as soon as the ink on the patriot act was dry, but I have not seen much in the way of evidence to back up his claims that he could order wiretaps on anyone as a low level NSA intelligence operative with only three months employment under his belt.

[Jackmoves]

Then don't, but don't trust Snowden cause some people are trying to make him a living martyr.

I don't really give a fuck about Snowden.

[cubby]

I don't really give a fuck about Snowden.

You certainly seem to be defending him. He's a traitor, and should be tried as such.

---------- Post added 2013-06-14 at 03:54 PM ----------

To add to the problem, Snowden could simply be wrong (honestly mistaken or otherwise).

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/22750...h-ec-officials

It's easy to believe him, since I just assumed such things where happening as soon as the ink on the patriot act was dry, but I have not seen much in the way of evidence to back up his claims that he could order wiretaps on anyone as a low level NSA intelligence operative with only three months employment under his belt.

The other thing is that he is, basically, lying about most of what he claims. However, he also released a lot of highly classified data, and revealed intelligence gathering methods, which is the reason he needs to come back and face up to his actions.

[Deleted]

They do it to keep you safe, so Boston Marathon doesn't get bombed. Ooh wait :P

[vaeevictiss]

Plain and simple, i dont think what he did was wrong. Nor do i think he is a hero or martyr. He saw something he believed was illegal/unconstitutional and reported it...done. Granted it was reported on a pretty large scale. But of course they will make him out to be the bad guy.

[ringpriest]

Not really, I read it once, then read it again after your post re mine. The U.S. has the best spy agency in the world. You already stated you don't know what the mission of the NSA is, so how exactly can you then lay judgement on something you admittedly know nothing about?

(apologies if I'm sounding like a dick, I don't mean to be - just really curious about people who thing Snowden did something other than treason)

Because, even if what he did was wrong, it isn't treason. Treason is defined in the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." Period. That's it. When you say that leaking information is treason, you're demonstrating your ignorance. (And don't even try to go down the road of claiming some ill-definied enemy like "terrorists" might find the information he released useful. Al-Qaeda finds drone strikes a useful recruiting tool - that doesn't make the drone program treasonous. And criticism of the President lets terrorists portray the American government in a negative light, but that doesn't make the GOP traitors either.)

And just as an aside, if leaking is somehow treason, why hasn't Obama (or any previous administation) seen fit to pursue any of the numerous "off-the-record" leaks by politicians and their staffers?

[oblivionx]

Heh... regardless of what you think of Snowden, agree or disagree.

He certainly picked the one place to go where he can't be taken out by a drone or renditioned.

It's not cowardly to not want to be assassinated or kidnapped, it's not like he went somewhere without an extradition treaty. He went somewhere he can't be touched unless thru a court system.

[Deleted]

Kinda off topic... but the sounds he makes when he talks are driving me crazy. Why would you put a god damn microphone INSIDE HIS FUCKING SALIVARY GLANDS?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!