Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks

[Duronos]

I don't deal in anecdotal evidence, sorry.

Okay, you don't have too. I find a lot of media laughable, such as the Trayvon Martin case... It was just another court case and the media pushed it to be some kind of racist thing and now everyone is all uppity about it. I mean that's just blatantly obvious.

Who's to say Edward Snowden is not anecdotal evidence. All information in essence is anecdotal.

[Elegiac]

Okay, you don't have too. I find a lot of media laughable, such as the Trayvon Martin case... It was just another court case and the media pushed it to be some kind of racist thing and now everyone is all uppity about it. I mean that's just blatantly obvious.

I don't have to, and nobody that considers themselves intellectually genuine should either. While the media often has bias, it's a somewhat preferable option as long as you are an informed viewer.

[Duronos]

I have work so I'll leave you with ending not. You guys are just annoyed at the government just to be annoyed, the Surveillance program doesn't affect you nor has it ever really. Enjoy getting angry at your own government, I'd say they've done a pretty good job regarding defense. Not even the Japanese could get past Pearl Harbor, that was all they got and that was it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You guys are just annoyed at the government just to be annoyed

Assumption.

[Mayhem]

There isn't a law for that.

it´s in your constitution o_O but how would you know, you just tell what your parents told you... it´s late here, gn8

[Flower Milk]

I'm still baffled how people are annoyed about this... Snowden is a traitor and there is nothing else to be said. You think the government will stop a surveillance program like such, no they won't because it's a safety thing. If you guys want another terrorist attack like 9/11 then so be it but don't mourn over it and blame the damn government, you know this entire idea of, "Oh our rights our being taken from us", no they aren't, we are in a much better position than we were years ago. Try living as a black person back before the civil rights movement. We are treated far more "equally" than we were decades ago and to get pissed over some surveillance program that does us more good than bad... No fucking wonder this kind of thing was Top Secret, the general public can't handle it and that's why it was deemed Top Secret in the first place.

Jesus fucking Christ I need a sandwich.

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No I'm not, the fact that you are more likely to believe media? Really? They are all super biased, seriously try reading the same story but on different websites, there are many clear biases. I'd trust someone who directly works in the actual field than a media source any day but hey I'm just speaking out of my ass apparently.

They are not required, by law, to hand over information to prevent a terrorist attack. There was a government investigation into them after 9/11 because people came out to say they may have purposefully withheld intelligence that could have prevented 9/11.

The more bad things that happen, the more people think "We need NSA to keep us safe, they obviously need more power and funding to do so". That was believed as to what happened with 9/11, because right after that the Patriot Act was put into motion and NSA received billions of dollars in funding. What makes you think they will give up intelligence to prevent an attack now?

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Umm, you misunderstood. I never said she was part of the torture, that was a completely different subject. Read back through all my posts.

What I was saying was that she worked for NSA and said the surveillance program was even happening back in the 90's when she was working there.

When did your mom stop working for the NSA? Because after the Patriot Act/9/11 they are now allowed to by law do a lot more than before, and also they got a lot more funding/equipment/etc. That is what this whole Edward Snowden thing is about, people already knew that they were spying on American citizens, he was just the first current employee to release detailed information about it, the ones before were all ex-employees.

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There isn't a law for that. Also I just remembered, doesn't the Constitution state that the government's main job is to protect the country... As far as I'm aware, surveillance is key to that.

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If you were around other kids who's parents did the exact same thing, you'd heard the same kind of stuff all the time. Honestly they can't be prosecuted because I'm about to get Secret clearance which most likely goes onto Top Secret in the Airforce... Then I'll keep my mouth shut forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture#Municipal_law

As the United States Constitution recognizes customary international law, or the law of nations, the U.S. Alien Tort Claims Act also provides legal remedies for victims of torture in the United States. Specifically, the status of torturers under the law of the United States, as determined by a famous legal decision in 1980, Filártiga v. Peña-Irala, 630 F.2d 876 (1980), is that, "the torturer has become, like the pirate and the slave trader before him, hostis humani generis, an enemy of all mankind."

But we do. Not to mention, you know, the Geneva Conventions. Didn't you learn about that in high school History class?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Well my dad and I are pretty close, Mum doesn't work in the field anymore and that was never her area anyways. NSA is more about Surveillance. JSOC varies a lot, my dad was in Iraq and Afghanistan for 4 years.

My best friend's dad is SF in the Army and he heard a lot from his dad. I mean I was told about this a couple years ago, and I'm joining the Airforce soon where everyone who joins gets Secret clearance upon entry.

If your Dad is telling you all this stuff he had better make sure he has his passport at the ready and a ticket to Caracas, Venezuela booked because that is exactly what Snowden did, except your Dad didn't go to a newspaper.

[This name sucks]

If your Dad is telling you all this stuff he had better make sure he has his passport at the ready and a ticket to Caracas, Venezuela booked because that is exactly what Snowden did, except your Dad didn't go to a newspaper.

Don't worry, Prism has already recorded everything hes said. A hit squad has been sent to deal with the leaker. Can't have TWO snowdens running around.

[Elegiac]

Don't worry, Prism has already recorded everything hes said. A hit squad has been sent to deal with the leaker. Can't have TWO snowdens running around.

Personally, I wouldn't want people violating NDA's either.

[Duronos]

It's okay people, you can all believe that Mr. Snowden was a hero of the people. Well I'm really just trying to point out that he really isn't but you can believe he is.

[Bakis]

It's okay people, you can all believe that Mr. Snowden was a hero of the people. Well I'm really just trying to point out that he really isn't but you can believe he is.

Dont worry we believe your 'mom' at NSA and your 'friends' at NSA to know better than congressional hearings and the media.
I hope you excuse us for not trusting a murloc

[ringpriest]

Funny you mention that. Waterboarding is extremely effective, there are very few who can withstand that kind of torture.

No, it isn't. Not according to General Wesley Clark, who said,

During World War II, we trained interrogators to elicit voluntary information from our adversaries, and it worked. Today, the FBI is firm in its belief that proper interrogation doesn't require torture and that better information can be obtained without it.

Nor does the Senate think it's effective. As Senator John McCain said, when speaking about a report that condemned enhanced interrogation as ineffective,

“cruel” treatment of prisoners “is not only wrong in principle and a stain on our country’s conscience, but also an ineffective and unreliable means of gathering intelligence.”

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There isn't a law for that. Also I just remembered, doesn't the Constitution state that the government's main job is to protect the country... As far as I'm aware, surveillance is key to that.

The government's "main job" is not to "protect the country". It looks like you're referring to the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States, which reads,

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Perhaps in the future you should actually read documents before claiming they justify your ignorant worldview. PRISM and similar programs didn't stop any terrorist attacks attempted after 9/11. (And the FBI's endless parade of Potemkin plots doesn't count, either.)

[Mormolyce]

I'm still baffled how people are annoyed about this... Snowden is a traitor and there is nothing else to be said. You think the government will stop a surveillance program like such, no they won't because it's a safety thing. If you guys want another terrorist attack like 9/11 then so be it but don't mourn over it and blame the damn government, you know this entire idea of, "Oh our rights our being taken from us", no they aren't, we are in a much better position than we were years ago. Try living as a black person back before the civil rights movement. We are treated far more "equally" than we were decades ago and to get pissed over some surveillance program that does us more good than bad... No fucking wonder this kind of thing was Top Secret, the general public can't handle it and that's why it was deemed Top Secret in the first place.

You need me on that wall!!!!

The more we talk about this the more I'm convinced that treason shouldn't even be a crime anymore.

[Deleted]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it's really great!

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ize-94158.html

[Deleted]

If you were around other kids who's parents did the exact same thing, you'd heard the same kind of stuff all the time. Honestly they can't be prosecuted because I'm about to get Secret clearance which most likely goes onto Top Secret in the Airforce... Then I'll keep my mouth shut forever.

Even if it means working against something you know in your mind and heart to be wrong. So you won't choose the path Snowden did? Basicly if you swore an oath of loyalty and they ask you to kill puppies and kittens for no reason you would gladly do it? And if this had been put into system you wouldn't speak out against it?

[vawugz]

I have a really fast mind

I'm about to get top super secret clearance

My mum worked for NSA, my dad worked for James Bond and my uncle works at Nintendo

I just laugh so hard at biased media. Just trust me on this one

I've met 12 year olds in Counter-Strike with more tact than you. Hell, at this point it's believable you are an up and running replacement for Clapper. You already have the whole "just trust me but I can't really tell you" logic down.

[Skroe]

Hey look. It's one month later and Edward Snowden isn't even page one news at the Guardian anymore.

So much for that. I hope he enjoys permanent exile and a smile Russian apartment, where he'll be ironically closely monitored by internal security.

Really this couldn't have worked out much better. Exile in authoritarian-monitored obscurity is probably a better outcome for the NSA than a trial that'll turn into a ridiculous sideshow as everyone you'd expect from Michael Ratner to Sean Penn to Daniel Ellsberg makes a cameo. And the NSA gets to buckle down on potential leakers of this type and improve their security procedures, so their next-generation stuff doesn't suffer the same fate. Smart people learn from their mistakes, and the NSA is very, very smart.

All in all, Snowden blew it. No national conversation. No real lasting international effects. No cause. No movement in America. No nothing. He threw his life away for nothing. More than that actually.... he permanently fucked his life. Even if he came back to the US... even if by some miracle he were pardoned (something that'll never happen), no employer will ever hire him. He'll also likely be targeted for a massive civil lawsuit by Booz Allen for breach of contract wherever he ends up. People who can't keep secrets don't get jobs in the field he is interested in, end of story.

Back to Ars Technica for you, Eddie! That is, unless the lawsuit takes your laptop.

[Duronos]

I've met 12 year olds in Counter-Strike with more tact than you. Hell, at this point it's believable you are an up and running replacement for Clapper. You already have the whole "just trust me but I can't really tell you" logic down.

You umm, edited that.

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Even if it means working against something you know in your mind and heart to be wrong. So you won't choose the path Snowden did? Basicly if you swore an oath of loyalty and they ask you to kill puppies and kittens for no reason you would gladly do it? And if this had been put into system you wouldn't speak out against it?

Well, first of all your example is bad but that's besides the point. People that get that far are trusted individuals, if I was ever to get that kind of clearance then I would be entrusted to keep my mouth shut regarding it. Do you guys even know the kind of form you have to fill out for Top Secret? Ask any military friend you have, the actual form isn't Top Secret and they can tell you everything you have to do and how long it takes. What I also don't get, you believe everything that you want to believe, example:

A General says torture is ineffective. <--- You guys believe it because you want too, who's to say that's a secret of the US government, we don't know if he's telling the truth.

I'm not saying it is or isn't currently but I'm just pointing it out, media provides information but you have to be open and look at all possibilities. Who's to say that the General is just saying that for good PR? We don't know, hell the amount of stuff that is considered Secret to Top Secret is vast. Just keep your mind open. Maybe the General is right but there is also the possibility he was just saying it to look good in front of "The People".

[Mayhem]

Maybe the General is right but there is also the possibility he was just saying it to look good in front of "The People".

that makes absolut sense, what doesn´t make one good looking if not confirmation that the torture they´ve been doing was useless

[Duronos]

that makes absolut sense, what doesn´t make one good looking if not confirmation that the torture they´ve been doing was useless

Indeed it does, it is probably much better to say they never did torture in the first place. Though, there is one place where you sign a bunch of waivers to practice being tortured just in case the enemy does it which leads me to believe that torture is effective on many kinds of people (physical torture). Look up SERE school, basically Special Forces school for being treated like shit.