Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[DemSol]

"Instant" corruption from MG trigger Nightfall?

[Randall51]

Got a source for that?

I tested it on PTR with and without PvP 4pc

[sasofrass]

The more I read GCs twitter, the more afraid I am for the upcoming PTR notes.

:c

[Deleted]

"Instant" corruption from MG trigger Nightfall?

Yes, it does currently and there is no reason it shouldn't in 5.4.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...06592613330944

We have a dev watercooler / coffee article going up Monday with our intent behind many class changes in 5.4.

That should be interesting, can't wait :P

[Hatelocker]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...06592613330944

That should be interesting, can't wait :P

For you the topic would be regarding why there have been zero changes except for the RoF nerf which I do hope they cover. I had been expecting some mechanic changes to destro for 5.4 and am honestly surprised it has stayed untouched all of ptr. With it being this late into the PTR it seems quite plausible destro will get nothing more than some coefficient buffs.

[TheBGreene]

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...06592613330944

That should be interesting, can't wait :P

He also tweeted this right after:

"Shouldn't be anything that twitter followers haven't already read. "

Do not expect too much from it.

[Deleted]

He also tweeted this right after:

"Shouldn't be anything that twitter followers haven't already read. "

Do not expect too much from it.

Oh. There shouldn't be much about warlocks then, weird o_O

[TheBGreene]

Oh. There shouldn't be much about warlocks then, weird o_O

If I could get him to answer 1 thing, it would be what is the deal with the horrible trinkets....they are just so. horrible.

[Nerraw]

I honestly don't think Destruction is going to see a lot of changes other than ember-generation tweaks, which is why we haven't seen anything yet. It's purely a numbers thing.

[Deleted]

Eagerly awaiting this post on Monday.
It's gonna be full of 'we felt that' rather than any actual logic / empirical data

[Gohzerlock]

Eagerly awaiting this post on Monday.
It's gonna be full of 'we felt that' rather than any actual logic / empirical data

Probably "we feel that nerfing / butchering affliction and demonology will help bring the specs more balance and give warlocks the choice to play destruction as well since it's numbers dropped from RoF ember generation." "we also feel that hunters and disc priests need buffs in pvp because we thought 50% was a little low for comp/class representation." "also, we feel like mages need buffs because we buff them every tier."

[varren]

Watch them over buff Destro at the last possible moment and then hot nerf it the next day while Fire Mage goes un touched.

[sasofrass]

Watch them over buff Destro at the last possible moment and then hot nerf it the next day while Fire Mage goes un touched.

Can't say it'd be anything we haven't seen before

[Werst]

The way in which devs completely ignore destro's mechanics issues suggests a disturbing level of apathy on the devs part. Lack of haste scaling without RoF? Having the T16 set bonus scale inversely with ember generation? RNG on top of RNG for the other T16 set bonus? How many PTR's are we in and they haven't fixed demo's set bonus yet?

PVP is still a mess. I find it extremely hypocritical a 100K chaosbolt (in pvp w' CD's) is too much for a 3 sec cast w' a limited resource yet any mage can dump 4x instant auto crit pyro's into a target for 100K each with better survival/CC than the lock. Ele burst and hunter burst/pressure (let alone melee cleave) also wildly outpaces destro's burst so its not like mage is an outlier/isolated case. All the dev number tweaking/discussion ignored the most important issue being how easy that damage is to use in PVP. Devs have some philosophical hardon about a 3 sec cast feeling powerful and rewarding but its really just frustrating for both lock and victim. To prevent victim frustration its nerfed to hit like a bag of wet d***s. Sorry but juking an interrupt was cool a couple expansions ago...2x-3x interrupts, stun DR, silence DR, and a mix of other instant CC's that don't fall into the earlier list means a 3 sec cast may as well be a battle rez vs a team of similar MMR.

PVE I think it more likely destro will get next to nothing while it will be the new benchmark for aff and demo. Keep in mind that to the devs they can't nerf firemages based on the current near bis (say 550ilvl) due to hurting the avg joe at 500ilvl. Come 5.4 even LFR and flex raid heroes will have ilvls near the present bis so there isn't a bottom end to worry about while the top end will get even more wildly out of control. Look at how devs handle gosac. They nerf it based on the theoretical BiS when it would scale ahead of pets but only a fraction of players hit that point and none of them before progression is over. Have to nerf all based on the top theoretical. Mages get buffed based on the bottom with the top allowed to be OP. They also ignore things like almost no fight is pure single target and anytime you multidot gosac drops like a stone.

If you look at case history of every expac since wotlk mages have been the ranged gods for the final tier. The same final tiers that typically lasts longer than any other in the respective expansions. ICC was all mages and legendary arpen warriors. Cata was DTR firemages and legendary rogues. Based on what I've read I have every expectation history is about to repeat itself for a 3rd time.

What do locks have to look forward to? Well we have 1 trinket that doesn't suck for us. All of them pretty much don't interact with our pets. Our petless grimoire options keep getting nerfed based on the theoretical top leaving the bottom/majority underpowered. Fine for locks, mages are handled quite the opposite. Our present trinket options are nerfed so we are incentivized to use the new trinkets except they all favor every other caster quite a bit more. PVP looks to be more frustrating than ever.

[Deleted]

Present trinkets are not nerfed, they are way stronger on PTR than currently.

I don't think we have that much to complain about really. Two very competitive DPS specs that are both looking to be in good shape in 5.4 is more than any other class. So mages are nr 1 as usual, is it so bad to be the nr 2 ranged, with many extras (survivable, healthstone, gateway, great aoe, great burst)? I think not.

[Deleted]

Present trinkets are not nerfed, they are way stronger on PTR than currently.

I don't think we have that much to complain about really. Two very competitive DPS specs that are both looking to be in good shape in 5.4 is more than any other class. So mages are nr 1 as usual, is it so bad to be the nr 2 ranged, with many extras (survivable, healthstone, gateway, great aoe, great burst)? I think not.

i think that was his point that the new t16 trinkets are rather crappy for us after the nerfs, with the t15 looking quite a lot superior atleast until you can get warforged heroic versions of certain trinkets.

thing is, we're dps, we dont care about those extras. any dps worth their spot will gladly give up gateway since its highly situational at best or some survivability or healthstones for that top spot, if giving up healthstones or demonic circle would do that and the gain for giving up those 2 things were substantial enough i would would do it gladly.

[Deleted]

''Our present trinket options are nerfed so we are incentivized to use the new trinkets''

Very clear that he means t15 trinkets are bad, which is untrue.

Honestly if you want to pass your spot so you can bring 17 mages then good luck to you, there is absolutely nothing to indicate we won't have another amazing tier with 2 of our specs being in the top 5. Gateway is not a small thing at all, just look at the difference Lei Shen HC 25m between 0 or 3 gateways.

[sasofrass]

don't forget, GC said locks and mages are too high so expect nerfs to both classes

[Gohzerlock]

don't forget, GC said locks and mages are too high so expect nerfs to both classes

LOL he'll probably nerf destruction.