Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Grizelda]

I believe he was referring to crit damage (like skull banner) and not actual crit chance. That would make it 1000x less useful for demo (as doom would no longer always spawn an imp) but as you said it would certainly make it better for other classes/specs (i.e. destro). I think zumzum is just trying to get himself an buff with that comment.

Doesn't Soulfire benefit from increased crit chance like Chaosbolt?

[Jessicka]

lol

It's not a bad suggestion really, but it would suddenly make Demo players screwed over. I know what some people were/are willing to give up to get their hands on a UVLS and getting it snatched away would royally suck for them after giving up so much.

There's no good answer to this, even a status quo would suck for anyone forced into Demo at some point after 5.4 with no UVLS yet. So either way, with nerf/change/status quo there's going to be losers and some warlocks will need to scramble to get thier gear in order when it's decided.

Even a change to Doom/Imps would change the dynamic and force Demo players to rethink what they are doing. There really is no elegant way out, I think.

Doesn't really matter to be honest, start of a new tier you expect to replace everything anyway. "Suddenly" looking to replace UVLS wouldn't be weird, at all and not exactly a great hardship when the Shado Pan VP trinket is quite competitive anyway.

I certainly do feel it's something that needs addressing, being balanced around something so hard to obtain sucks. It was bad enough with the MWC which was a piece of cake to get hold of.

[Hatelocker]

Doesn't Soulfire benefit from increased crit chance like Chaosbolt?

It does but I am pretty sure chaos bolt scales better than soulfire does with crit damage (note- I don't have the numbers but chaos bolt has a higher DPET so I am assuming it does).

[Shadowygoodness]

They could change UVLS into 100% more crit damage for like 10 sec.
That could be more appealing to some specs

This definitely wasn't a subtle way of saying "I want super ultra hard hitting Chaos Bolts!!!!!111111" lol

[junn]

I have heard rumour about 2 things potentially coming.

-Old soul link making some sort of a reappearance. I think this relates to a comment GC/Holinka made on twitter.
-Potentially transferring some of our damage from MG back out to haunt/dots. This might have been before the KJC change to make MG castable while moving.

Anyone have further insight on either of these changes?

[Nicola]

It does but I am pretty sure chaos bolt scales better than soulfire does with crit damage (note- I don't have the numbers but chaos bolt has a higher DPET so I am assuming it does).

The scaling is equal, chaos bolt just scales a lot better with spell power (like trice as good)

[Szarala]

-Potentially transferring some of our damage from MG back out to haunt/dots. This might have been before the KJC change to make MG castable while moving.

They're going to have to do that -anyway-, otherwise KJC remains a "mandatory" talent for Aff, which was the whole point for changing it.

Honestly, if they're going to stick with the MG mechanic, mobile MG should be -baseline-, and they can just start over from scratch with KJC.

[Deleted]

The thing is with KjC and Affliction is that affliction has worst AoE , why would anyone play MF affliction when they can play destro or demo for better aoe damage.

[iru]

They need to make KJC baseline for all specs and think of a new talent... too bad that's probably something for the next expansion.

[Brusalk]

They need to make KJC baseline for all specs and think of a new talent... too bad that's probably something for the next expansion.

All of the level 90 changes are something for the next expansion (besides buffing the current AV).

[Count Zero]

Ugh, got my 600 epic cape after I'd already transferred my character to the PTR ... hadn't been on there in a few days so last night I get on and get my character all gemmed/enchanted/etc, then realized I didn't have the 600 epic cape and wouldn't be able to acquire the legendary version (assuming they put that on the PTR)

Anyway, tested out the Amplification trink with Afflic (since it had erased my Demo spec and I just hadn't bothered to fix my keybinds), and the burst is insane, but over a 5-minute test it did level back out a fair amount ... hard to tell how much was the ilvl bump from the new gears just itself and how much was from the trink (I kept my LFR UVLS for 2nd trink).

But, geezus, with meta gem + Amplification even my 530s or so lock had near 100% haste. I think it was 97%. 20 seconds on Amplification is nice, too, in the event of a UVLS proc ... can only imagine what a full-crit 100% haste Doom is gonna look like, especially if you can put two/three up on a multi-target fight ... oh man ...

[Lucidious]

I have heard rumour about 2 things potentially coming.

-Old soul link making some sort of a reappearance. I think this relates to a comment GC/Holinka made on twitter.
-Potentially transferring some of our damage from MG back out to haunt/dots. This might have been before the KJC change to make MG castable while moving.

Anyone have further insight on either of these changes?

I have heard these as well as the rumor of an AV rework and would like some sort of confirmation or a link as well.

[Shadowygoodness]

Looks like UVLS won't be nerfed/replaced according to the blue on the frontpage. Blizzard doesn't seem to have a problem with UVLS not being replaced next tier.

[Kagecamia]

How is it unintended? It's pretty clear to me that UVLS was designed for demo locks like RoRO was designed for WW monks.

Scorch wasn't intended for arcane....and look what happened to that.

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Looks like UVLS won't be nerfed/replaced according to the blue on the frontpage. Blizzard doesn't seem to have a problem with UVLS not being replaced next tier.

Um....do you have a link or anything to support this? I didn't see anything on the US front page of the forums.

In regards to that Twitter post, GC's response is so convoluted (as usual....) that I wouldn't know what to make of it.

[Ciremyk]

The thing is with KjC and Affliction is that affliction has worst AoE , why would anyone play MF affliction when they can play destro or demo for better aoe damage.

What ? SoC crit for 400k+ with Mannoroth fury, its actually the best aoe burst you can have with a warlock..

[Jessicka]

In regards to that Twitter post, GC's response is so convoluted (as usual....) that I wouldn't know what to make of it.

Ask question, guage responses. I think its much like MWC in that we've been here before. Like that trinket, it deeply effects how the spec is played, which is meh, but also, in that case it was very readily available. UVLS is much less so and that could deeply effect the popularity of the spec. I already see too many "don't play this unless you own this" comments, which accurate or not is bad for players and bad for the game.

[Kagecamia]

Ask question, guage responses. I think its much like MWC in that we've been here before. Like that trinket, it deeply effects how the spec is played, which is meh, but also, in that case it was very readily available. UVLS is much less so and that could deeply effect the popularity of the spec. I already see too many "don't play this unless you own this" comments, which accurate or not is bad for players and bad for the game.

Shard of Woe was still used into 4.3 and was not BIS only after you had heroic DS trinkets for Arcane mages. I had a similar question asked on the US forums regarding those who don't have it. ToT has been out for close to 5 months. Chances are locks would have at least seen or got the the trinket from regulars, roics, or even the LFR verison. ToT will probably become cross realm next patch, so people can easily just join an OpenRaid group, an alt run, or a pug run for the trinket. Tedious and boring for some. But people did it in cata with Sinestra, people will do it again with Lei Shen.


Whether the supposed blocks to certain specs and gear levels and gear is right or wrong, it depends from person to person honestly. I feel that the lower performance of fire at lower gear levels due to a lack of crit just warrants people trying out frost. This is wrong as it forces people to play one spec before they can really perform. For locks, if you don't have UVLS, go afflic or destro. However I do believe that Blizz has gotten accustomed to nerfing one spec just so people will try the others.

Thing is the trinket makes the difference between middle of the pack to extreme upper of the meters for demo. If/When the trinket gets nerfed, how much will it impact the damage of the lock specs that rely heavily on the trinket? Despite the nerfs it will still be used. That I think is a bigger issue for blizz. Plus combine this trinket with the others from this upcoming tier.....good lord.

[Hellfury]

How is it unintended? It's pretty clear to me that UVLS was designed for demo locks like RoRO was designed for WW monks.

No I dont think so, I think it flew over the radar. Blizzard did nerfed some sinergy of this trinket with SPs and Boomkins, to be perfectly honest I think they just forgot us

- - - Updated - - -

What ? SoC crit for 400k+ with Mannoroth fury, its actually the best aoe burst you can have with a warlock..

My Chaos wave on mastery build crits for something in the 300k window, adding immo aura, Fel/Wrath Storm, Void, Carrion Swarm

Its stretching abit saying SOC is the best burst AOE, SOC with SB can be one of the best mass AOE on targets that have alot of HP, but we never see that happen

- - - Updated - - -

Shard of Woe was still used into 4.3 and was not BIS only after you had heroic DS trinkets for Arcane mages. I had a similar question asked on the US forums regarding those who don't have it. ToT has been out for close to 5 months. Chances are locks would have at least seen or got the the trinket from regulars, roics, or even the LFR verison. ToT will probably become cross realm next patch, so people can easily just join an OpenRaid group, an alt run, or a pug run for the trinket. Tedious and boring for some. But people did it in cata with Sinestra, people will do it again with Lei Shen.


Whether the supposed blocks to certain specs and gear levels and gear is right or wrong, it depends from person to person honestly. I feel that the lower performance of fire at lower gear levels due to a lack of crit just warrants people trying out frost. This is wrong as it forces people to play one spec before they can really perform. For locks, if you don't have UVLS, go afflic or destro. However I do believe that Blizz has gotten accustomed to nerfing one spec just so people will try the others.

Thing is the trinket makes the difference between middle of the pack to extreme upper of the meters for demo. If/When the trinket gets nerfed, how much will it impact the damage of the lock specs that rely heavily on the trinket? Despite the nerfs it will still be used. That I think is a bigger issue for blizz. Plus combine this trinket with the others from this upcoming tier.....good lord.

The proc chance in real world scenario of a LFR vs a HC UVLS is night and day, so those with HC and even HCTF will have a huge advantage.

And iam all for prestige and rewarding ppl doing hard content but, what about the RNG and when it fails to drop.

[Jessicka]

Shard of Woe was still used into 4.3 and was not BIS only after you had heroic DS trinkets for Arcane mages. I had a similar question asked on the US forums regarding those who don't have it. ToT has been out for close to 5 months. Chances are locks would have at least seen or got the the trinket from regulars, roics, or even the LFR verison. ToT will probably become cross realm next patch, so people can easily just join an OpenRaid group, an alt run, or a pug run for the trinket. Tedious and boring for some. But people did it in cata with Sinestra, people will do it again with Lei Shen.


Whether the supposed blocks to certain specs and gear levels and gear is right or wrong, it depends from person to person honestly. I feel that the lower performance of fire at lower gear levels due to a lack of crit just warrants people trying out frost. This is wrong as it forces people to play one spec before they can really perform. For locks, if you don't have UVLS, go afflic or destro. However I do believe that Blizz has gotten accustomed to nerfing one spec just so people will try the others.

Thing is the trinket makes the difference between middle of the pack to extreme upper of the meters for demo. If/When the trinket gets nerfed, how much will it impact the damage of the lock specs that rely heavily on the trinket? Despite the nerfs it will still be used. That I think is a bigger issue for blizz. Plus combine this trinket with the others from this upcoming tier.....good lord.

Think you're overestimating the size of a very tiny community of players farming Lei Shen and those who would use openraid against everyone else. Still not seen the LFR one after something like 15 kills, all coined. Nor did it drop on my 25n kills for me to at least lose :/

[evertonbelmontt]

Same as Jessicka.

Since i'm not a hardcore raider, even if it's a dps gain (I doubt that it will be much over the new trinkets) I won't come back to ToT unless it's for achieves/HC. It's a very small sample of players that will do that, I guess.