Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[Deleted]

Hi, just a few questions regarding demonology 5.4

1. Has there been any confirmations regarding the t16 set2, how long does it last and can it stack(you can always dream,eh? ?
2. Has anyone done any math on level 75 talents? With the set 2, will it be more beneficial to play supremacy or service?
3. With the current information on trinkets, personally i would see the 15k haste cap as something to aim for, is there any math on dps values for the 9k and 15k cap in tier 16, is it even possible to stick at the 8 ticks?
4. Thanks to the MF change there has been a lot of talk regarding demonology AoE, can it be considered viable anymore or should we just aim straight for affliction when the fight calls for AoE?
5. T16 set 4, will this stack with current applications of HoG?

thanks in advance

Concerning questions 1, 4 and 5 I can answer :P
The buff that grants you and your pet 20% increased damage lasts for 10 seconds and as far as I know it does not stack but presumably if you get lucky you can proc it one after the other (though that is very unlucky to happen)

Demonology AoE is still strong despite the MF redesign and I don't see why affliction would be any better than demo at AoE anyway. The only thing that has changed is that you will need to manage when you use MF for optimal damage + increased range.

The 4 set does stack with current applications of HoG up to a maximum of 2 (was 3 earlier in the ptr but blizz seems to have capped it out at 2) any procs you get when there are 2 application of shadowflame on the target will simply refresh the shadowflame at 2 stacks.

[Thelm]

Passively Incanter's Ward gives you 6% spell damage. Actively, it's a very very weak (22k) absorb that you need to break in order to get the full benefit. Because basically every boss will cause you that amount of damage without you actually having to stand in the bad, it's not much like AV imo. Though Mages see it as a PvP talent and rarely take it in PvE.

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification.

[pokeadott]

With the MG/DS changes, how is Fel Flame stacking up as a filler now?

[Netherspark]

I'm a little confused by the new Archimonde's Vengeance. By "unmitigated damage" does this mean the damage you actually take, or the damage you would have taken in total?

So if you get hit for 100k damage with Unending Resolve up, do you gain 600sp or 1000sp?

If you get hit for 100k damage with Sacrificial Pact up, do you gain 0sp or 1000sp?

[Count Zero]

I'm a little confused by the new Archimonde's Vengeance. By "unmitigated damage" does this mean the damage you actually take, or the damage you would have taken in total?

So if you get hit for 100k damage with Unending Resolve up, do you gain 600sp or 1000sp?

If you get hit for 100k damage with Sacrificial Pact up, do you gain 0sp or 1000sp?

No one knows yet. New AV isn't on PTR

[Deleted]

No one seems to know atm, the problem is that its worded exactly the same way vengeance is which would mean that you would gain spell power as if you had taken the damage even if it was absorbed.

Now the thing here is that its gna encourage insanely retarded play so if im honest i really hope this version doesnt go live or is so weak that Kjc is more useful on the majority of encounters.

[Keldion]

I'm a little confused by the new Archimonde's Vengeance. By "unmitigated damage" does this mean the damage you actually take, or the damage you would have taken in total?

So if you get hit for 100k damage with Unending Resolve up, do you gain 600sp or 1000sp?

If you get hit for 100k damage with Sacrificial Pact up, do you gain 0sp or 1000sp?

The intent appears to be the amount of actual damage that registers on your character. You'd gain 600 sp from eating a 100k hit during Unending Resolve, and none if you have Sacrificial Pact. AV currently has no synergy with absorb effects.

We'll need to wait for the new build to appear on the PTR, however. Take my words with a grain of salt.

[luckydevours]

I'm a little confused by the new Archimonde's Vengeance. By "unmitigated damage" does this mean the damage you actually take, or the damage you would have taken in total?

So if you get hit for 100k damage with Unending Resolve up, do you gain 600sp or 1000sp?

If you get hit for 100k damage with Sacrificial Pact up, do you gain 0sp or 1000sp?

It is the same wording as in the original tank vengeance passives and means 100% of unmodified raw damage is taken into account for AV before it is reduced by passive reduction, armor or absorbs.

[Deleted]

I would expect it to give full SP, just like vengeance works.

Also it won't work off avoidable damage (again like vengeance), so there won't be all that much you can do to get more out of it. You can do things like stomp the mines on Iron Juggernaut, but you can't stand in the red circles on the same fight on purpose...

Still, it will be a spellpower increase, and with the nerfs to our channeled spells it might be better than KJC depending how much you really have to move and how much moving you can avoid by playing smartly.

[forsworn]

yeah...thats what I said. If you got Sac Pact or Soulleech up, it will absorb the damage and AV won´t do anything, so if you skill one of those spells you´ll make AV weaker then it would be without them

Absorbs do not effect the buff! Read the vengance link i posted!

[Count Zero]

Absorbs do not effect the buff! Read the vengance link i posted!

It's a very reasonable assumption but it wouldn't be the first time similarly-worded things on tooltips behaved differently. Just no way to be sure until it hits the ptr.

[forsworn]

Fair enough. However the word "unmitigated" should apply to absorbs.

[Jessicka]

Fair enough. However the word "unmitigated" should apply to absorbs.

Seems silly to have it work with an inverse synergy to Soul Leech, Sacrificial Pact and Unending Resolve, effectively promoting the taking of damage. Nice synergy with Soul Link though....

[Infernix]

So, as i understand it, they're dragging us back to being a DOT class again after spending most of MOP getting us used to being Channeled-Cast Champs. Stronger dots, weaker MG/DS and a reliance on having Haunt up a lot.

Feeeeeeeeeeels a lot like Cata content again, except MG/DS instead of SB spamming.

[Jessicka]

So, as i understand it, they're dragging us back to being a DOT class again after spending most of MOP getting us used to being Channeled-Cast Champs. Stronger dots, weaker MG/DS and a reliance on having Haunt up a lot.

Feeeeeeeeeeels a lot like Cata content again, except MG/DS instead of SB spamming.

Incoming QQ about the overeliance of RNG on Haunt uptime.

[Lulbalance]

Tank Vengance
Rank 1 comment absorbs do not prevent.

I really want this to work for standing in fire. You basically dont take damage as a lock.

yea well i guess we'll have to wait and see..

the difference will basically make the talent either 'ok' or 'must have'.. so i think i'm right to be cautious in my optimism despite the strong evidence.

[from pvp perspective.. i dont comment on pve theory cause i havent pve'd since wrath :[ ]

[Count Zero]

Incoming QQ about the overeliance of RNG on Haunt uptime.

Testing single-target on the ptr, I quite literally cannot spend my shards faster than I gain them. I am trying to get down to 2 shards (after opener is over) and it just won't happen without severely clipping the existing Haunt debuff. Can't just SB:SS more because there are times I need to refresh only one or two of my dots, but not all three as I don't want to weaken one or two of them if I don't have to.

With the shuffling of our damage back into dots and away from channeled spells, and all the shards we'll have, we're going to be very strong at 2/3 target cleave ... more than that and it's iffy, as the Nightfalls only from one Corruption at a time just gets worse and worse the more targets there are (relative to before) ... but a fight like, say, the Fallen Protectors (or whatever it's called) is going to be amazing for Afflic.

Hell, all the specs are going to have sick cleave with the Amplification trinket ... argh I can't wait to get that badboy on live ... I just hope it's on an early-enough boss that all the casters in my guild can get their hands on one. Most of us are having real bad luck with trinkets, with one of our Spriests being damn lucky ... : /

[Mazda]

Phew. Just read through yesterday's argument. Practically having an anxiety attack just sitting here.

I myself am most interested in the comparison between the new Aff MF AOE, and Demo AOE. I have no doubt that the new Aff MF AOE does more on paper, but do fights in SoO support the cooldown well? I'd imagine if there was little synergy for the MF cd, Demo would still be better in practice. Makes me sad that I can't get online during PTR test hours.

[Lulbalance]

Testing single-target on the ptr, I quite literally cannot spend my shards faster than I gain them.

i'm seeing this too.. pretty crazy gain right now since changes.

in 3s i can to one SS:SB -> refresh with hard cast immediately since my trink is almost always proc'm on first app, and swap dots around with with the extended duration..all on the bank of one shard..usually have the shard back in 2-3 globals.

most of this is because of the ss sb change tho.

[Infernix]

So, we're going to be built around having high up-time on Haunt again, with stronger DOTs and not so much reliance on MG/DS. I can see why they eventually compromised and gave us MG on the run without a snare. It's going to be nearly irrelevant, while Haunt and UA remain 'stand still' casts only outside of Insta casting with SB.

Of course, if our shards replenish as fast as what's been reported, SB+SS will likely be the standard for applying them. Feels a little weird about having to stop fixating on MG and going back to DOT-on-the-run DPS again.