Warlock patch 5.4 discussion

[luckydevours]

Well, if you can trust the numbers, shard generation through Nightfall was doubled (5% -> 10%) on the PTR, but reduced again ( to 7%) in the recent patch note update.

[PickleballAce]

Worth repeating since it's been brought up a few times in this thread:

Standing in lava won't work for AV or Vengeance in 5.4. Using AV when you know a big AE is coming is more skillful.

Yes, the tweet is a few weeks old, but it's likely that the new AV has been in development for at least that long.

Source: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...63466613788672

[Deleted]

idd, from what ive read, its only going to work on single target dmg on you or unavoidable dmg like tortos' quake stomp etc. basically all dmg you cant avoid by moving.

[Shadowygoodness]

Not really following that tweet, since all we have to work with right now is a passive iteration of AV. That post seems to imply AV will also have an active component at which point one has to ask "what will that be?" Will we gain 5-10% of unmitigated damage back as spellpower for 20s (i.e. 5% = 25k spellpower for receiving 500k in damage). Does that warrant using the active? I mean we still don't even really know how the passive works, tbh. The passive seems to imply you continually stack more and more spellpower as you take more and more damage over a 20s period, so does that mean it will continue to stack ad infinitum until you go 20s without taking any damage at which point the buff falls off? Then you have the whole "do absorbs count as unmitigated damage" debate. So many questions.

[Natixsphere]

So just saw the new warlock nerfs does blizzard have any clue wtf they are doing? Every time I turn around they are reducing our dmg! aff is fkn weak as it is why the fck do they keep nerfing us?!?!

[Deleted]

Nightfall now gives Corruption a 7% chance to generate a Soul Shard (up from a 5% chance), but the increased chance only works on the most recently applied Corruption.

To me this looks like every Corruption will give you a 5% chance to proc shards, but the most recently applied one gives a 7% chance?

[Shadowygoodness]

So just saw the new warlock nerfs does blizzard have any clue wtf they are doing? Every time I turn around they are reducing our dmg! aff is fkn weak as it is why the fck do they keep nerfing us?!?!

Actually the new changes come out to being roughly the same as live if not a buff. They have put more of aff's damage into DoTs and Haunt and made us less dependent on MG/DS channeling which is a really good place to be for both PvE and PvP. They have buffed out multidotting capability and refocused our single target on Haunt uptime (which PTR testers are saying is something like 85%+ easily with new Nightfall + Tier set). As for PvP, this will mean aff's DoT pressure will be even better than live and Haunt spam burst will be very good.

To me this looks like every Corruption will give you a 5% chance to proc shards, but the most recently applied one gives a 7% chance?

While it does read that way, I doubt that is the intention. I believe they are trying to keep us from swimming in shards via SB:SoC and Corruption multidotting, moreso the latter than the former. With the buffs to DoTs, multidotting will be even more attractive for aff than ever in this xpak, and the last thing they want is for our new desire to multidot to affect shard generation that then affects single target capability (probably also a deterrent to throwing SB:SS left and right without regard for shards). B/c then we would essentially be doing more cleave damage than previously while also doing increased single target via increased shard generation. However, PTR testers have made it seem like shard generation will not be a problem via single target alone.

[Deleted]

Actually the new changes come out to being roughly the same as live if not a buff. They have put more of aff's damage into DoTs and Haunt and made us less dependent on MG/DS channeling which is a really good place to be for both PvE and PvP. They have buffed out multidotting capability and refocused our single target on Haunt uptime (which PTR testers are saying is something like 85%+ easily with new Nightfall + Tier set). As for PvP, this will mean aff's DoT pressure will be even better than live and Haunt spam burst will be very good.

aye, it should result in a minor buff in the 5-10% area most likely.

[Deleted]

Phew. Just read through yesterday's argument. Practically having an anxiety attack just sitting here.

I myself am most interested in the comparison between the new Aff MF AOE, and Demo AOE. I have no doubt that the new Aff MF AOE does more on paper, but do fights in SoO support the cooldown well? I'd imagine if there was little synergy for the MF cd, Demo would still be better in practice. Makes me sad that I can't get online during PTR test hours.

For what is worth, MF lined up almost perfectly with the Reflection adds on Sha of Pride, putting my AoE as affliction easily on top over the other classes we had.

[Deleted]

if you can use MF every time you use SoC, afflic burst aoe should be best, with demo burst aoe better if MF doesnt line up with your aoe.

[Kildragon]

yea, seed is pretty rediculous atm, its quite fun actually

Quick question, and I know I'm pretty late with this, but since when does GoSac increase our AoE damage? It only affects single target spells and at least with service you get the second fel storm. Sac should only increase sb/toc, soul fire, fel flame, wild imps and HoG/chaos wave. Nobody uses chaos wave cause it's garbage and HoG is mainly used for the extra fury generation from shadowflame. I'm not even sure if shadowflame is affected by sac. I haven't done any pve in a while, but isn't the 100% crit trinket and the resulting boost to imp damage the only reason to spec sac if you spec sac at all?

I know that Teye had some rather important misconceptions about AoE (mainly that harvest and chaos wave were still being used) but you didn't exactly help the issue.

[Shotdabow]

Quick question, and I know I'm pretty late with this, but since when does GoSac increase our AoE damage? It only affects single target spells and at least with service you get the second fel storm. Sac should only increase sb/toc, soul fire, fel flame, wild imps and HoG/chaos wave. Nobody uses chaos wave cause it's garbage and HoG is mainly used for the extra fury generation from shadowflame. I'm not even sure if shadowflame is affected by sac. I haven't done any pve in a while, but isn't the 100% crit trinket and the resulting boost to imp damage the only reason to spec sac if you spec sac at all?

I know that Teye had some rather important misconceptions about AoE (mainly that harvest and chaos wave were still being used) but you didn't exactly help the issue.

Chaos Wave IS still being used. Heroic Megaera and Lei Shen say hi.

[Shadowygoodness]

Granted there are still quite a few things we still need to know about AV as I mentioned earlier, but if it indeed does work mechanically like tank vengeance then AV quite possibly may become the "go to" talent for 2s, maybe 3s too but definitely 2s. So long as you take some damage within a 20s period to refresh the timer on your stacking spellpower, AV will just continue to get better and better the longer a fight draws out.

[Deleted]

Granted there are still quite a few things we still need to know about AV as I mentioned earlier, but if it indeed does work mechanically like tank vengeance then AV quite possibly may become the "go to" talent for 2s, maybe 3s too but definitely 2s. So long as you take some damage within a 20s period to refresh the timer on your stacking spellpower, AV will just continue to get better and better the longer a fight draws out.

Mmm I have serious doubts itll work out like that. Can't speak for how it works atm but there will definitely be some kind of limiting factor. Wouldn't be surprised if it worked out as in 'damage taken during the last 20 seconds' updating every second or whatever so itll last the full duration for a period of burst in one moment, but consistent damage will always be levelled out by 'dumping' the damage taken when the spellpower from that period of damage expires at the 20 second mark.

So if it was a fight where you took no damage for most part, then took 300k damage. You gain 3k spellpower for the 20 seconds then it would drop. If you took consistently 20k damage a second, you'd gain 200 spellpower per second which would stack for the first 20 seconds. But when you hit second 21, you'd gain 200 spellpower, but lose the 200 spellpower you gained on the first tick... if that explanation makes any sense. i can't vouch for whether thats how it is at current, or whether how that will be how it works in the end, but no way in hell do i see it just becoming a spellpower buff you can keep rolling so long as you take damage every 20 seconds.

[Gohzerlock]

I wonder what the synergy between soul link and AV is going to be like, I think the new implementation is garbage. It's interesting on a numbers basis, but it's a bad talent because of the way it works not because the damage isn't good enough. I don't think anyone will take this in pvp, maybe for bgs... you'd have to take so much constant damage.

[Shadowygoodness]

Mmm I have serious doubts itll work out like that. Can't speak for how it works atm but there will definitely be some kind of limiting factor. Wouldn't be surprised if it worked out as in 'damage taken during the last 20 seconds' updating every second or whatever so itll last the full duration for a period of burst in one moment, but consistent damage will always be levelled out by 'dumping' the damage taken when the spellpower from that period of damage expires at the 20 second mark.

So if it was a fight where you took no damage for most part, then took 300k damage. You gain 3k spellpower for the 20 seconds then it would drop. If you took consistently 20k damage a second, you'd gain 200 spellpower per second which would stack for the first 20 seconds. But when you hit second 21, you'd gain 200 spellpower, but lose the 200 spellpower you gained on the first tick... if that explanation makes any sense. i can't vouch for whether thats how it is at current, or whether how that will be how it works in the end, but no way in hell do i see it just becoming a spellpower buff you can keep rolling so long as you take damage every 20 seconds.

True enough; however, the only way it would be any good is if it in fact works the way I explained it. If it works like you explained it, then it will never be worth taking in PvP (and will only be a little more attractive in PvE). One just can't justify taking 400k damage for 4k spellpower in PvP.

[pokeadott]

Unless it's flat gimp, I think AV will end up the defacto pvp talent anyway. Do I care about mobile MG with the changes to Dots/Haunt/FF? Demo never casts as is. Maybe I'd use KC with Destro, but if AV is even half decent I'll ditch mobile incins pretty quick.

[Deleted]

I think the new AV is going to work like vengeance... would be funny seeing locks in DA stacking full stamina and reaching about 1.3m+ , wouldn't that give like 10k+ SP if you had 2 or 3 healers on you, making it more viable for tanking since it also increases the bubbles we make?

[miasmah]

does the new 2 piece bonus change crit stat weigh in any way?

considering haunt is becoming the new 'filler' that 2 piece bonus seems pretty stupid, since it modifies MG while you may end up not even casting MG for long period of the fights.

[PickleballAce]

They added three Glyphs to the front page:

Glyph of Curse of the Elements (NYI) - Curse of the Elements hits two additional nearby targets.
Glyph of Havoc - Havoc gains 3 additional charges, but the cooldown is increased by 35 seconds.
Glyph of Unending Resolve (NYI) - The damage reduction of Unending Resolve is reduced by 20%, but the cooldown is reduced by 60,000 sec.

Yes, that's right. 60,000 seconds.