Mage 5.4 Discussion

[Deleted]

Considering the normal ilevel of next tier seems to be 541, most people will be at 545+ if they are raiding in a raiding guild, and this is a raiding set bonus we are talking abt.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 01:12 PM ----------



Considering how fire plays atm, even at sub 50% crit rates I wouldnt see much use for this. Unless the proc also prevent from IB to go to cooldown when used, then it might be usable, but the tier bonus says no such thing.

Also the 2 set is really annoying if anything.. 4 second refresh timer. That means if we get a nerf to CM, that means we wouldn't use the tier at all.. cause you need to launch a Pyro <4 seconds each time. And ye that means we have 2 fireballs each time if we can get the cast to under 1.5 seconds with the buff, so the 2 set is really really RNG based, which is the last thing fire needs atm.

And the 2 set also encourages mages to do the HS+HU rotation to keep the haste going for longer period of times and to stack it. Which inturn makes the 4-set even more useless for those mages who wouldn't use HS+HU rotation otherwise.

this is why I propose to extend the duration of both 2p and 4p to make the more usefull.

[mrgreenthump]

this is why I propose to extend the duration of both 2p and 4p to make the more usefull.

Still without a nerf to fire to extension for 4 set buff is next to useless.

The extension of 2 set I agree on, though wouldn't constant near 4k haste be tad bit op as a 2-set bonus? It would go near 20k dps upgrade with that item level and current fire scaling. And the current(t15) 2-set gives like 900 stats on average for us, so that kinda need to be taken into consideration..

[Deleted]

Liking the changes so far, though I have some feeling that the set bonuses are tied to some other changes that are coming to the mage class in the next patch.

Fire seems most obvious, seeing how the 4p isn't all that great for increasing crit levels. You're all underestimating the bonus though. The combined power of the 2p and the 4p-bonus will make for great interplay on Combustion. Basically, you can undercap a combustion haste cap by 3750 and still consistently reach it while loading up for one at the start of the fight. The 4pc will just guarantee that you can ramp up a final Pyro to reach 5 stacks for now. I wouldn't entirely underestimate it, considering we also lose flat %-crit on Pyro from the current 4pc. It could work out allright. Likely change to CM still very possible though.

Arcane seems like a good idea, forces you to pay attention and use your proccs well, can't really say much about it though.

Frost bonus is problematic in a way. Shifting yet more damage to FFB will NOT result in a highly increased value of mastery. Yes, we might be casting even more Ice Lances via the new 2pc. But I doubt the boulder damage will be completely insubstantial. Ultimately, this reinforces our reliance on getting BrainFreeze-proccs, and thereby the value of haste. This makes sense in a lot of ways, because it's ultimately the least disturbing mechanic for PvP. But I still feel that they will need to do something, because Frostbolt feels underwhelming in a lot of ways and target switching is difficult for frost without any good reason in PvE. Expecting a change on that front too, likely to increase the value of mastery.

[ripponesan]

Does "No CD Inferno Blast for 6 seconds" mean you can just cast three of them and have HS + HU ready to go?

Even if that would be the case you were btter off harcasting the pyroblast. 3 instant casts add up to around 4 seconds depending an haste, and the damamge from inernoblast is kinda negligable.

[Deleted]

The 4p for fire is useless, I never cast IB, only on pull. It would be useless even if it'd have 100% chance to proc.

[Kiry]

I feel like it's too soon to tell for us. This is first reiteration of PTR, where's the other shoe? I do find it interesting though, I like the direction, but we'll see.

[gallamann]

As Frost; 2pc is interesting, going to need to hit PTR and play with it. My concerns...

1) wanting to ensure all IL procs are consumed before hitting FFB procs, because FFB proc usage already produces IL proc, so if I used FBB proc with 1 IL proc banked potentially lost a IL proc
2) under great RNG generated FFB procs from my NT/LB, between IL and FFB usage my 3 stack on target drops
3) with Frost Orb out, a bomb ticking... sure is going to be a lot of IL procs... we are going to lose IL procs

Having said all that, what if Blizzard changed IL to allow it to be hasted down to a .5 second GCD? I think that would address the concerns with too many IL procs causing lost IL procs while at the same time add one more use of haste.

4pc... gotta say I will probably LOVE dropping chunks of ICE, for a while I won't care too deeply how much damage that is

edit - format

[Tobedeleted123]

The 4p for fire is useless, I never cast IB, only on pull. It would be useless even if it'd have 100% chance to proc.

You say that casting IB with heating up is a DPS loss after some ilvl treshold is met?

[jcdommo]

Seeing as how every single class except mage got patch notes (again), I'm hoping we are going to see some major changes that need longer to hash out. First thing to go needs to be level 90 talents, then a way to keep fire "fun" and balanced while not crippling it.

Or they could do what they always do, slap on a half ass band-aid and call it good. Our dps will be fine in the end of course, but the class will still be as clunky as ever.

[zephid]

You say that casting IB with heating up is a DPS loss after some ilvl treshold is met?

No, but the majority of the times you will have a hotstreak already present because you don't use your instant pyro until you have hotstreak+ a heating up proc. Which means that you will have 55-60% chance x2 to proc a new hotstreak from casting fireball + instant pyro, if anyone of those crits you'll have a new hotstreak and if both crits, which is not uncommon on these gear levels, you'll be having a hotstreak + heating up proc.

[Huuga]

The fire bonuses don't impress me AT ALL for both 2p nd 4p.. 750 haste is DRY and insignificant , and how many times can a mage possibly have a pyro streak so that the haste can stack? MOREOVER WE DON'T NEED HASTE!
It'd better be off with CRIT RATHER THAN HASTE! and something like 1000 crit ...not 750..
The inferno blast cooldown thingy is USELESS... If they want to make it useful , they should do something which NEEDS to be done and shouldve been done long ago - buff IB's scaling..
And , umm..... icy boulder? seriously? that would do something like 20k damage thanks a lot?

[Shangalar]

The set bonuses might significantly alter the Arcane rotation, leading to interesting 4-Charge combos. I just really hate "chance" procs. Missiles themselves are already enough of a chance it should be good though.

[mrgreenthump]

The set bonuses might significantly alter the Arcane rotation, leading to interesting 4-Charge combos. I just really hate "chance" procs. Missiles themselves are already enough of a chance it should be good though.

Oh you must hate fire like mad then xD

[Shangalar]

Fire's damage depends on a secondary stat which can be increased over time, with gear, gems, reforges, etc. You feel the improvement in gameplay over time even though it might initially suck-

Arcane's damage depends on a chance to proc one spell which never changes, but is quirky enough to screw you over big time, even in current tier heroic gear. Fire rarely (if ever) has such issues in current tier heroic gear.

[mrgreenthump]

Fire's damage depends on a secondary stat which can be increased over time, with gear, gems, reforges, etc. You feel the improvement in gameplay over time even though it might initially suck-

Arcane's damage depends on a chance to proc one spell which never changes, but is quirky enough to screw you over big time, even in current tier heroic gear. Fire rarely (if ever) has such issues in current tier heroic gear.

Mm I know, I've played arcane a lot all the way from wotlk from when they overhauled it and AM has always been the same, given now its just insane damage compared to your average AB, which creates this problem in the first place.. It's a bit like fireball compared to HS pyro damage.

Mages kinda need to get looked at.. By someone that truly knows their stuff and cares abt how things play out. I kinda feel that mages have been just fixed again and again instead of fixing the core problems. Arcane gets changed every expansion at least twice, fire gets nerfed and buffed and nerfed again multiple times in every expansion.. I don't really know why Blizz keeps doing this to mages. The fire problems at its core could have been fixed in 5.1 with buffing fireball and nerfing pyro, but it never happened.

[Deleted]

The set bonuses might significantly alter the Arcane rotation, leading to interesting 4-Charge combos. I just really hate "chance" procs. Missiles themselves are already enough of a chance it should be good though.

I think that arcane's bonus are the best of the 3. The result will greatly depend on L90 but I have great hope actually.

For Fire, I will repeat my self but there's very great chance that all buff will have a better duration. And haste is severely under looked here.
For Frost, I really really hope some great chance because the actual design show it will finish in Haste staking even more

[Deleted]

The fire bonuses don't impress me AT ALL for both 2p nd 4p.. 750 haste is DRY and insignificant , and how many times can a mage possibly have a pyro streak so that the haste can stack? MOREOVER WE DON'T NEED HASTE!
It'd better be off with CRIT RATHER THAN HASTE! and something like 1000 crit ...not 750..
The inferno blast cooldown thingy is USELESS... If they want to make it useful , they should do something which NEEDS to be done and shouldve been done long ago - buff IB's scaling..
And , umm..... icy boulder? seriously? that would do something like 20k damage thanks a lot?

I am so IMMENSELY HAPPY with the mage setbonuses! Like you guys had OP last set bonuses in the first place its just something which should've been done LONG ago than now..don't attack me, BUT BOTH THE 2p, the 4p are well-justified!

Had to be done.

[Sills]

It's still early but I am loving the frost 4pc. Drop a frost boulder on a target when I use Brain Freeze? How awesome is that! Please let there be a badass graphic for the ability like a blue icy infernal raining from the sky on the mob's head.

Loving it.

The mage 2 pc on the other hand, while useful is kinda dull. It will provide a nice boost, and I like the stability of it. I will always know when I am getting an extra FoF proc and can plan accordingly to maximize it. I am very pleased with this early version of the mage tier boosts and I hope they dont change too much for frost.

[SodiumChloride]

Consuming Brain Freeze has a 75% chance to drop an icy boulder on your target.

LOL. This I got to see.

[Kholdstare]

I am so IMMENSELY HAPPY with the mage setbonuses! Like you guys had OP last set bonuses in the first place its just something which should've been done LONG ago than now..don't attack me, BUT BOTH THE 2p, the 4p are well-justified!

Had to be done.

Sort of like the nerf to mannoroth's fury and KJC?




I'm really curious about the 4 piece fire bonus myself. If Inferno blast has no cooldown does that mean under very specific circumstances we could just spread combustion over and over again to a bunch of adds for huge burst aoe? That could be fun.