Shadowform nerf?

[ripponesan]

but I'm from EU, and the fact that devs give absolutely 0 fuc*s about reading the EU forums is a well known MYTH

fixed that for you. Time to put the tin foilhat back on

Sure this nerf sucks for your class and maybe especially for you, who knows.
I also understand your anger, what i dont understand the direction of your anger.

here is a helpful dude, that gave you tips how to optimize your feedback in order to increase the chance to get heard and taken seriously. No reason to direct your anger on this dude now.

Sure the solution he proposed is in no way a guarantee that you will get heard and taken seriously, and it involves some work from your side as well. So you might not be too happy with it, but this is your best shot i reckon.

[Blackfoo]

my only beef with this change is the fact there giving us nothing to make that up dispersion as a personal cooldown is pretty crappy. As far as i can think its the only personal cooldown that doesnt allow you to attack. maybe if they add glyph to where disperson dr goes to like 40% but still allows you to cast i would be ok

[SodiumChloride]

I think i'm pissed of not about pve or pvp but because they are changing an old and classic mechanic wich where with us since beginning of wow.

Blizzard are changing world of warcraft in some way that the classes are losing their natural characteristic bacause the lack of criativity in solve the balance problems.

Seems we are going to an dead end where the diferrence between classes will be only some diferent spell animations.

To be fair, you guys gain a heck load of utility since the beginning of WoW too.

Also calling the "-15% damage" a "mechanic" might be pushing it a bit. It's a passive that doesn't change your active gameplay at all. It would be like everyone did a bit more damage, no different from having less resilience - which is now a baseline 65%.

The development team has scratching their heads on how to nerf you guys without harming PVE. I suppose they threw in the towel.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 02:55 PM ----------

my only beef with this change is the fact there giving us nothing to make that up dispersion as a personal cooldown is pretty crappy. As far as i can think its the only personal cooldown that doesnt allow you to attack. maybe if they add glyph to where disperson dr goes to like 40% but still allows you to cast i would be ok

Ice Block says, hi.

[Chickat]

Well, i was going to say its prob a tooltip error, but its in the official notes as well. Wtf blizzard.

[Deleted]

They really need to make SP more mobile if they remove the 15% damage reduction, make a glyph so that Mind Flay can be cast while moving but not slowing the target so we dont have to be the stationary turret that just stand there soaking up all the damage.
This change if it goes live (which I hope not) will just... kill SP against any melee comp for PvP as it feels right now.

[Felade]

I would say that the melee getting screwed is a thing of the past, look at this expansion pretty much every mechanic only happens on ranged dps and healers while melee just tunnel.

More like "not getting targeted by mechaincs is the last gasp of the melee dps".

1. Is it hard to do things like Wind Bomb or Lightning Diffusion thingy on Jin'rokh? No, particularly since most ranged have lots of mobility (yes even spriest, look at the instant casts in the rotation). You'd think it would, but it doesn't seem to affect DPS drastically even on fights like Jin'rokh.

2. When those mechanics don't go to melee, guess where they go? Why, to the only ranged specs in the raid - that's right, the healers! Mechanics not targeting melee is just another example of adding melee = makes the game harder on healers.

3. "Melee just tunnel" There's lots of mechanics that melee do just because they are melee, and don't appear in the dungeon journal. For instance, on Jin'rokh, you can't stand at the edge of the puddle like a ranged can so getting out of the puddle for ionization takes a bit more focus.

[brirrspliff]

b) If it's real, I'd probably quit wow (normally I'm not one to pull this card).

probably good bye then. it's hilarious how people can overreact about something like the removal of an unneeded and overpowered passive 15% dmg reduction. what was the reason you had it? why should SPs reveive 15% less dmg than most other classes? passives like that are boring and unneeded.

[Granyala]

How often do you find yourself <15% HP in PvE as a DPS when it isn't a wipe?

Happens quite often in HC encounters esp. pre firstkill. Like it or not, this is quite a nerf to our survivability in PvE.

No, particularly since most ranged have lots of mobility (yes even spriest, look at the instant casts in the rotation).

We have 3 instants:
Shadow Word Pain, a DoT that does lousy damage upon application and rapidly drains our mana
Mind Blast via Divine Insight proc.
Shadow Word Death, below 20% once every 8 secs or so.

Casting Devouring Plague while moving while being specced into Insanity? I wouldn't recommend doing that.

While moving our damage pretty much drops to 0. Unless we get lucky with DI-procs.

[Yvaelle]

Unless you only YOLO once.

Nevermind, you can't be a feral druid... you must be a shadowpriest - because you are flaying my mind! ><

[mindp]

(yes even spriest, look at the instant casts in the rotation). You'd think it would, but it doesn't seem to affect DPS drastically even on fights like Jin'rokh.

LOL I think the third (maybe forth) world 12/13 guilds sat their spriests because of their crappy mobility and damage on Lei Shen. Maybe those guilds were full of idiots, and should have talked to you first.

[Boogums]

As a melee please restrain yourself from replying here and go tunnel something instead.

As a caster, your opinion on the skill level of pvp doesn't count.

[apepi]

probably good bye then. it's hilarious how people can overreact about something like the removal of an unneeded and overpowered passive 15% dmg reduction. what was the reason you had it? why should SPs reveive 15% less dmg than most other classes? passives like that are boring and unneeded.

Not if the classes themselves have kind of been balanced around the fact that they have 15% reduced damage, much more classes have a higher amount of defensive cds then spriest/boomkins.

[Zathrendar]

As a caster, your opinion on the skill level of pvp doesn't count.

Says a DK player. Can't think of a time when it's been easier for melee to PVP. Please stop pretending.

/rofl

Regardless, I wouldn't worry too much as I doubt this or the change to the warlock passives will pass. if it does, I'll be sticking to my mage. Warlocks and SPs are not in any shape or form OP now, I don't see the motivation behind these changes, and if they do want to push them forward, they should come with some more nerfs to gap closers, interrupts, stuns and silences.

[worsthitmanNa]

My exact point. Because melees needed more buffs in PvP, but making their own abilities deal more dmg was just too plain..
Not to mention how hard this hits us all in PvE as well..

Disc needs it's damage reduction nerfed a bit in pvp but I think shadow is fine atm. I was in crafted dreadful gear and mostly greens at 1.8 mmr and living through mage/x teams. I think its a little bit silly honestly.

[Avada Kedavra]

my only beef with this change is the fact there giving us nothing to make that up dispersion as a personal cooldown is pretty crappy. As far as i can think its the only personal cooldown that doesnt allow you to attack. maybe if they add glyph to where disperson dr goes to like 40% but still allows you to cast i would be ok

You would be incorrect.

Mage: Ice Block
Monk: Zen Meditation
Hunter: Deterence

there may be one that i am missing....

Dispersion is already immune to Roots/slows and im pretty sure you get a speed buff from a set bonus.

[Yvaelle]

probably good bye then. it's hilarious how people can overreact about something like the removal of an unneeded and overpowered passive 15% dmg reduction. what was the reason you had it? why should SPs reveive 15% less dmg than most other classes? passives like that are boring and unneeded.

Ok, time to re-make the list I promised last night:

DK:
55% Physical Reduction (Armor)
21% Avoidance (3% dodge, 18% parry)
10% Passive Damage Reduction (Blood Presence)
25% Bonus Stamina (Blood Presence)

Hunter:
35% Physical Reduction (Armor)
15% Avoidance (15% Dodge)
15% Passive Damage Reduction (Iron Hawk)

Rogue:
29% Physical Reduction (Armor)
25% Avoidance (22% dodge, 3% parry)
30% Damage Reduction (Feint, 65% vs AoE attacks)

Warrior:
42% Physical Reduction (Armor)
20% Avoidance (17% dodge, 3% parry)
25% Passive Damage Reduction (Defensive Stance)

Paladin (Ret):
42% Physical Reduction (Armor)
23% Avoidance (20% dodge, 3% parry)

Shadow:
30% Physical Reduction (Armor+Inner Fire)
3% Avoidance (3% dodge)
15% Passive Damage Reduction (Shadowform)

Warlock:
23% Physical Reduction (Armor)
3% Avoidance (3% dodge)
10% Passive Damage Reduction (Fel Armor)


Hopefully the pattern is pretty obvious, but let me spell it out - melee have as much as ten times the avoidance of casters, often have double or triple our reduction % via armor, AND in many cases have stronger % damage reductions than casters. Melee have as much as ten times the avoidance of casters, often have double our reduction % via armor, AND in many cases have stronger % damage reductions than casters. (Again for emphasis, because seriously).

For most casters, the balance is found through the ability to kite - instant and powerful snares, knockbacks, roots, stuns and so much damage on the move they can maintain pressure while kiting. Shadow has none of this. While mages and warlocks are both masters of mobility in MoP - Shadow is still a spec given only the tools to tank every melee they encounter. We have no teleports, no knockbacks, no snares, no moving DPS - while all casters rely on passive damage reductions to have Less survivability than melee, casters compensate by having ranged attacks and the ability to kite: except Shadow.

[worsthitmanNa]

probably good bye then. it's hilarious how people can overreact about something like the removal of an unneeded and overpowered passive 15% dmg reduction. what was the reason you had it? why should SPs reveive 15% less dmg than most other classes? passives like that are boring and unneeded.

I like passive skills, I know someone or something is just screw when certain number are on the screen. They have added rng stuns and other talents in the past and they were annoying. They are one of the main reason I can't pvp on tbc server its skill less and stupid.

[Yvaelle]

If we are serious about nerfing passive damage reduction, then we need to talk about giving Shadow the tools needed to succeed. If homogenizing all casters by putting us on the Mage model is to occur, then we need to also be willing to homogenize our mobility and kiting ability.

If the plan it to turn every caster into a Frost Mage, then I think all the non-frost mage casters want some pretty massive buffs.

[veiledy0]

If we are serious about nerfing passive damage reduction, then we need to talk about giving Shadow the tools needed to succeed. If homogenizing all casters by putting us on the Mage model is to occur, then we need to also be willing to homogenize our mobility and kiting ability.

If the plan it to turn every caster into a Frost Mage, then I think all the non-frost mage casters want some pretty massive buffs.

I vote Blink for everyone!

[Deleted]

Oh look, the classes that can self heal themselves and that are currently the most OP just got nerfed.
Woah, didn't expect that at all.