[Balance] 5.4 Changes and Thoughts

[Slapsgiving]

Just in to point the obvious... the "we are swimming in wasted procs already" should draw attention to the fact that the intent can hardly be to reduce the amount of wasted procs, cause what is the point of that... but that the change will be implemented to affect the procs you can use, i.e., it will eventually be an actual nerf and you will be fishing for SS procs. That is the only way the change would make any sense. Which it does not, in my view.

Also, seeing a SS proc in challenge modes is gonna feel like seeing an actual shooting star with this kind of change. I hate they tinker with the spec to offset the effects of escalating ilvl.

Anywho, I still hope the tuning stage includes Hurricane. I cannot believe the lack of direction and ideas this patch is making evident with regards to the spec. Just fixing AoE would make most people happy for the rest of the X-pack, and not even a word on that yet? How hard can it be?

[Drayarr]

"Shooting Stars You have a 30% chance when you deal critical periodic damage with your Moonfire or Sunfire to instantly reset the cooldown of your Starsurge and cause its next cast within 12 sec to be instant. Druid - Balance Spec. This chance is reduced against multiple targets. Druid - Balance Spec."

Im actually in awe of this..how can they possible think this is a viable change? yes 4pc will make moonkins VERY strong but really? come on.

[Slapsgiving]

we arent really "swimming" in"wasted" procs, only time i can see us be swimming is like Primordious whoring, council,animus whoring

I am not. Some people say they are, but not everyone is clad in heroic hear -that is my point. Even if you were swimming, they will make it so you are not anymore.

Also, now that I think about it, didn't Lore or some other blue acknowledge that Hurricane was actually very poor but they were worried about buffing it cause multi-dotting was so strong? Probably a first step before buffing AoE? *fingers crossed*.

[Aboubacar]

complete BS reroll a lock. Class has been out of control all xpac, better buff it to no end just because they removed their broken mechanics like casting and moving and being able to hit the whole room like a complete mongloid.

MultiDoT was Balance's only niche. Now it's gone

[dark666105]

I wouldn't count on it, they also said they were dropping our DR in favor of active mitigation cooldowns and we still haven't seen the reimbursement for that.

[Cyteriz]

I sincerly hope they will change this back, bullshit. everyone send GC angry twitter messages

[dark666105]

Would be nice if it weren't so vague.

[Aboubacar]

Would be nice if it weren't so vague.

Dude if you don't want vague reroll a warlock they'll send you a weekly newletter explaining how the class must remain the god of casters. You'll also get GC's personal cell, a hot phone to Jesus, and complimentary jam donuts.

[dark666105]

Dude if you don't want vague reroll a warlock they'll send you a weekly newletter explaining how the class must remain the god of casters. You'll also get GC's personal cell, a hot phone to Jesus, and complimentary jam donuts.

Sad thing is, I was a warlock till 3.0

[Risale]

Again nothing with regards to dps dk's, i am starting to get worried.
Yes I know they still need to tune but every class has been talked about but close to nothing regarding frost/unholy other then the feather nerf.

[Varna]

I think you've stumbled into the wrong thread my friend. This thread is reserved for angry moonkins wanting to voice their anger and pain.

[Alzu]

How can people be seriously thinking already that moonkins are losing all of their multidotting capabilities? You don't even know how reduced the chance is yet. As the wording only says that it's reduced, it's safe to assume only that it's more than 0% for new targets.

On my recent Council of Elders kills, I have had roughly from 120 to 170 procs per fight. And with the kill times being ~3:50 (230 seconds) it means that i'm getting in the worst situations on average a proc more often than every 2 seconds. But because of how dots with CA are perfectly lined up, how dots are ticking multiple times per second and how rng works, most of the procs I get are overlapped and wasted. I don't need so many procs I'm getting. No one needs as many procs as you get in that fight. The change probably wouldn't change more than just a few cast starsurges less.

Of course Council is just an example and on two targets the effects will be more considerable but with the new gear and the T16 4set bonus, you will get too many procs again. And if you hate that you will start playing 5.4 being nerfed, this is a lot better solution than if they nerfed us after people would be farming SoO. The amount of starsurges we'd be getting might make us overpowered in multidot scenarios and nerfing an OP class usually ends up with nerfing too much.

But for the time being, please just wait for actual numbers before yelling about how this ruined the whole spec.

[Mirri]

Dude if you don't want vague reroll a warlock they'll send you a weekly newletter explaining how the class must remain the god of casters. You'll also get GC's personal cell, a hot phone to Jesus, and complimentary jam donuts.

I really hope you do that so you would be out of these class forums.
Just a preliminary data-mined patch note on a not-yet-finalized or even candidate release and people are advocating re-rolling and saying that balance is useless spec.
Grow a fucking brain seriously or at least save your angry posts until YOU HAVE TESTED THE DAMN CHANGES.

[Aboubacar]

I really hope you do that so you would be out of these class forums.
Just a preliminary data-mined patch note on a not-yet-finalized or even candidate release and people are advocating re-rolling and saying that balance is useless spec.
Grow a fucking brain seriously or at least save your angry posts until YOU HAVE TESTED THE DAMN CHANGES.

Except they are buffing a class thats already the best by a mile and nerfing a middle of the pack spec randomly and never compensate for the nerfs. All PTR has been balance nerfs to survival and damage. I'm not angry at all, but my analogy of the reality of class balance does seem to have upset you greatly. Maybe you need to go outside for a breather.

- - - Updated - - -

But for the time being, please just wait for actual numbers before yelling about how this ruined the whole spec.

AoE is garbage and needs to be brought up. By a lot. It's been stated all expansion that hurricane is a trash spell. Yet nothing has changes. AoE matters a lot, but okay nerf the one niche balance has without counteracting it. Nerf all the survivability without counterbalancing it with active mitigation buffs while at the same time buff the classes that are excelling. Be passive or w/e and say all will be fine, but you're wrong.

[Alzu]

AoE is garbage and needs to be brought up. By a lot. It's been stated all expansion that hurricane is a trash spell. Yet nothing has changes. AoE matters a lot, but okay nerf the one niche balance has without counteracting it. Nerf all the survivability without counterbalancing it with active mitigation buffs while at the same time buff the classes that are excelling. Be passive or w/e and say all will be fine, but you're wrong.

Our AoE is garbage, but the change is about multidotting. Two different things. I'd like to see a Hurricane buff but what does that have to do with the amount of Starsurges my dots generate?

[Mirri]

Except they are buffing a class thats already the best by a mile and nerfing a middle of the pack spec randomly and never compensate for the nerfs. All PTR has been balance nerfs to survival and damage. I'm not angry at all, but my analogy of the reality of class balance does seem to have upset you greatly. Maybe you need to go outside for a breather.

Yea sure, go reroll to a warlock if you want, but don't come to druid forums and incite others to do so. It's just the start of the numbers tuning phase and you are already telling people to re-roll to other classes - maybe you should take a breather and calm down. Just because you didn't get buffed in the first numbers pass doesn't mean you have to get butt-hurt and cry all over these forums for irrelevant things.

Your response to Multi-dotting getting reduced effectiveness - "Lets cry about hurricane and bad aoe". Lol.

[Aboubacar]

Yea sure, go reroll to a warlock if you want, but don't come to druid forums and incite others to do so. It's just the start of the numbers tuning phase and you are already telling people to re-roll to other specs - maybe you should take a breather and calm down. Just because you didn't get buffed in the first numbers pass doesn't mean you have to get butt-hurt and cry all over these forums.

Dude you're the one posting in all caps, which implies anger. I'm just saying that buffing a god class just makes the nerf to balance sting even more. They've nerfed balance the entire PTR cycle. Do you really have the blind faith that it will randomly get buffed a significant amount in the next cycle? Will just get nerfed into the ground because of the hybrid tax. You've got "utility" so your damage can't be as good as other classes. Get used to it.

[Mirri]

Dude you're the one posting in all caps, which implies anger. I'm just saying that buffing a god class just makes the nerf to balance sting even more. They've nerfed balance the entire PTR cycle. Do you really have the blind faith that it will randomly get buffed a significant amount in the next cycle? Will just get nerfed into the ground because of the hybrid tax. You've got "utility" so your damage can't be as good as other classes. Get used to it.

Just curious if you even know what are the nerfs warlocks have gotten so far?

1. Nerf to soul-leech capping at 15% instead of 100% of health
2. Nerf to Fel Armor (passive dmg mitigation) - Same as moonkins (But we got NS baseline as a active mitigation tool)
3. KJC nerfed, mannoroth's fury nerfed - indirect DPS nerfs.

Now did that make you feel better?

We don't even know if this SS proc change is a big enough change to warrant such extreme reactions like re-rolling a new class - there are no simulation done or even proc % reduction numbers out yet. Your reaction is thus wildly illogical and emotional.

[Deleted]

This change is probably to discourage multidotting on fights like megaera, or rolling dots on multiple targets while just spamming SS on a single target (Primordius).

The argument that we're already getting a lot of SS procs is just dumb. It is going to reduce the amount of SS procs we can actually use, it's not only going to reduce SS waste (which btw would be completely pointless, as it would have 0 effect on anything). It will be a hit to multidotting. Especially since our multidot priority atm is eclipse dot > SS > non eclipsed dot. Having said that, we'll have to wait and see how much it is actually reduced, and more importantly, are other multidotters getting a similar nerf.

Anyway, due to SoO having a lot more Ele shaman friendly fights than T15, I wouldn't be surprised to see ele shaman take boomkin's spot in 10 man guilds because of this change. If Boomkin multidot can't pull numbers similar to lock multi dot there's pretty much no point bringing a boomkin over an ele shaman.

EDIT: if they intent to keep this change I wouldn't be surprised to see a buff to SnF/MF dmg to keep our multidot viable.

[Aboubacar]

Basically they got god-mode taken away which was a broken mechanics that really defy what being a caster is about. Something that shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. I'm not sure where you get off calling me emotional when you're posting in all caps, getting mad at me for calling a spade a spade.

You're trying to make everything sound okay just because the shooting stars nerf isn't an enormous nerf. Balance doesn't need nerfs peroid. Warlocks don't need any buffs even after their t90 nerfs they were still extremely strong, the best caster. So my reactions aren't illogical, they make sense. Class balance isn't buffing the god class and nerfing the normal people, plain and simple.

And like I've mentioned before this really hurts undergeared players.