Is mists of pandaria the greatest raiding expansion ever released?

[anaxie]

To quote the OP

Edit ; when i'm talking about the raids i'm talking about heroic mode, your experiences me be different

If you don't clear heroic raids your opinion is void here.

[Soisoisoi]

If by "great" you mean it has the largest size of trash mobs everywhere in the history of WoW, then the answer is yes. Never before did I need to keep my camera far away from the character so I can fucking see something.

Largest trash mobs? I'm assuming you never did anything in Vanilla, and quite a bit of the rest of the expansions?

[anaxie]

Largest trash mobs? I'm assuming you never did anything in Vanilla, and quite a bit of the rest of the expansions?

Be thankful trash doesn't respawn anymore imo.

Also I assume he has trouble with the Megera and Ji'kun trash. Too much trash is his fault / too many afk players.

[xanzul]

No. I come to realy dislike this whole "1 raid, 3 difficulty levels". Just seems so lazy. Make more raids, for different sizes.

So the elitist jackasses who continually whine about the existence of LFR/flex modes can go back to excluding players from content? No thanks. And make no mistake about it exclusion has everything to do with the complaints about easier difficulty modes. As far as being lazy goes how can anyone honestly make the claim Blizzard has been lazy when Mop has given us one of the best raid tiers yet? It is certainly better than Cata.

[Deleted]

So, We've had tier 14 , which was a great tier, and throne of thunder which is an amazing raid with awesome encounters.

If they don't screw up the siege of orgrimmar, I think we may just have the best PvE expansion ever released.

What do you guys think?

Edit ; when i'm talking about the raids i'm talking about heroic mode, your experiences me be different

Yes I agree. If SoO will keep T14 and T15 standards, that will be best raiding expansion, without a drop in quality in some tier like it was in Wrath, Cata and TBC

[l33t]

No, to me WoTLK+BC still better in terms of balance and group play.
MoP has much cooler raids then Cata had, but... just but. Thrash packs in t15 are too big and super annoying, and half of bosses are just sensory overload. And that unskippable movie before Tortos... argh. Stop stealing my playtime, Blizzard!
Also, prevalation of some pinky tanks is uberstupid. Have no protpala? Bye, you'll never be able to beat half of the heroic modes. Balance, anyone seen balance?

[Tekkommo]

TBC had the best raids, it did have the worst raid ever though, MH how I hated you. Gruul and Mag were kinda broken at first (still killable), but it didn't take long to nerf it. I think people complained Nightbane was broken as well (not positive on this though, was a long time ago), which is good that I killed it before the nerf, I personally don't think it was broken, just needed great gameplay and fast reactions. I think TBC just had the best design of raids, I liked the layout of most of them.

Wrath sucked balls mostly, although ICC and Ulduar had a number of interesting fights, I don't know why people rate it so highly on this forum now though, they were despised when it was current content. It also had the second worst raid ever and the first tier of raids in this expansion were out for far too long as current content for the difficulty it provided. Hallion was also terrible.

I liked vanilla raiding, for its time it was great (you have to remember when people rate vanilla and TBC highly, it's for the time it was current content, do not compare it to today's standards, that is just stupid).

Cata, T11 was great, the rest was a huge disappointment.

MoP, I like MV, HoF was pretty dull (plus I hate bugs) and Toes was a disappointment from being far too easy. ToT is great fun, which is weird to say after raiding for a while now, by this point I am usually dreading raids. SoO looks and sounds great, time will tell.

[krisfour]

God no.

The burning crusade hands down.
Nothing has come close.

[Deleted]

I'm not a fan of tier 14, but I wasn't of Tier 9 either. If SoO is of the standard of Throne of Thunder, MoP would be on even stage with Wrath for me.
The melee unfriendliness in ToT wasn't nice though.

[xanzul]

How on earth was wotlk great for raiding?
Ulduar and ICC, sure. But you also had Naxx reused, and TotC.. the worst and most unimaginitive multiple boss raid in the game.

Unfortunately Wrath is starting to get the TBC treatment and has become yet another expansion that can do no wrong despite every single aspect of it being torn apart on a daily basis when it was current content.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 04:35 AM ----------

I would say Wrath was best. It's based purely on my enjoyment level though, and Wrath was when I actually enjoyed being a Boomkin. My Boomkin has since been benched so that I could heal or tank in both Cata and MoP, which really killed raiding for me almost as much as the switch to 10 man raids giving the same gear as 25.

So, my oder would be:
1. Wrath
2. BC
3. Cata
4. MoP

(I didn't raid Vanilla, I was just a noob to WoW when BC came out)

So you dislike other expansions because you lack the self control to join a guild that lets you play what you consider fun? That isn't a game design issue.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 04:38 AM ----------

I think for a lot of people it isn't about how good the encounters are or how the raid was designed but more about how they experienced raiding and WotLK was the most pleasing experience for most people.

Vanilla was OK. Very simple fights and the real problem was just to get the right gear with the right resistances for enough people and get enough people. BC was good but again encounters were simple and only some encounters stand out.

WotLK was special because you had both, 10 and 25 man difficulty with 10 man being significantly easier than 25 man. That allowed you to pug 10 man raids and everyone could start raiding 10 man. I remember how tradechat was flooded with people looking for raids and it took 10 minutes at most to find a group. Back then it was harder to find a dungeon group.

Cata was OK but with it destroyed pug raids and with MoP and LFR it's the same. Sure the encounters in Cata and MoP are better and all but raids in general are less accessible to people as back in WotLK because you need more time to find a group via LFR.

And yet people have done nothing but bitch about flex raids despite it basically bringing back a Wrath style of raiding. I don't think most of you have any clue what you actually want.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 04:41 AM ----------

Bragging about your race for world firsts, doesn't make your oppinion any more valid..
If anything, it only makes it more pathetic, that you need to bring it into the discussion..

Entire Cata raid scene was better than Mop.. Yes, they lasted a bit too long, but they were better raids..
Ulduar and ICC was better than MoP raids..
Kara, SCC, BfMH, TK:Eye, BT and SWP was better than MoP..

What is left, which is worse than MoP? ToC for sure... Parts of Vanilla... Not much else..

He brought up his experience because it is relevant to the discussion as it means he has spent a significant amount of time doing the raids other people are trashing for no real reason.

[Jacob6875]

People are srsly saying wrath?? Did they forget about the 6+ months of Naxx and the terrible Trail of the Crusader raid?

But anyway, if Siege of Org is on par with the rest of the raids in MoP I would probably consider it to be the best raiding expansion.

The only big complaints I have about MoP raiding so far is the requirement to kill Empress to get into Terrace (when terrace was a joke compared to anything past garalon in HoF) and the silly RNG quests for the legendary.

[xanzul]

Except it does make my argument more valid, because I've actually seen all the content, unlike many players on these forums. Saying that it brings nothing but patheticness to the topic is simply making you look more uneducated. Explain to me how seeing the most difficult form of this expansions raid content, at an extremely high level, NOT make my opinion more validated than someone who hasnt seen all the content, or has done it on a watered down, afk ridden, joke fest like LFR?

Basically if it means shutting down ignorant whining it isn't allowed here by most players because all they want to hear is negative feedback and god help anyone who may actually like content that they don't.

---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 04:45 AM ----------

World First raiders is a group of LESS THAN 0,1% of players.. Thus, your oppinion falls in the insignifigant category..
Consider yourself a glorified beta tester, if you want... But World Firsts's oppinion have no merrit for anyone except fanbois..

Blizzard take feedback from World Firsts regarding TUNING only, but not content..

What the fuck is your problem? You do realize he said some raids in previous expansions were better than Mop raids right? You people seriously need some reading comprehension.

[Soulwind]

Yes a lot more fun. You do know people still leave guilds constantly right? Nothing changed except that you get gear thrown in your face so you can "catch up".
This has nothing to do with how fun raiding was.

Of course it's only my experience, but this doesn't happen as much now. I went through four guilds that were destroyed by that before getting into one that was just starting T5. That guild was then destroyed by T6 content for the same reason.

Progressive content is only fun if you are one of the few lucky ones that can experience it all. Most players and most guilds can't. And Blizzard already got tired of spending months designing challenging content for a couple hundred people when millions are struggling, and not having that much of a good time, with previous bosses.

Difficulties offer content for everyone, wether you like it or not. If you want to be one of the best, and face the most difficult encounters ever made in this game, you can do it. If you want to take it easy and raid at your own pace, you CAN do it, too.

Nothing is being removed from anyone by adding more choices. And it makes the development time worth it, unlike Naxx40 or Sunwell.

[Pua]

Yeah WotLK man!
We start out with a rehashed raid from level 60, but that is not the point, the point is was so easy it was unbelieveable, never before have I experience a current tier so easily steamrolled by PUGs in both 10m and 25m

Can you link me your main character?

I'd just like to check the dates when you completed Sartharion 3D or obtained the black proto-drake.

[Deleted]

Did all you Wrath champions forget Trial of the Crusader and the redone Naxx? At best you're looking at 2/4 decent raids: Ulduar and ICC. And even ICC, other than the Lich King, was not that great. Now, I agree that Ulduar was the best raid, but the other raids in that expac drag down the average.

It depends how u judge 'best' basically.

Ur judging 'best' by assessing how well made and crafted the raids were, other people appear to be judging it upon how much fun they had raiding throughout that expansion. Dont forget that Wrath won by a long chalk in a recent poll for 'what time in Wow history did u have the most fun'.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-the-most-FUN

Here

[Eremiel]

Interesting how people are claiming Wrath was the best. Wrath had Ulduar, which was an amazing raid, true. It also had ICC which was a good raid marred by extremely slow gated boss releases (you were pretty much sick of the place way before you ever got to see Arthas) and Trial of the Crusader (which was the single laziest raid Blizzard has ever done).


Best raiding expansion? -Easily- Burning Crusade. It had actual progression in raiding tiers and I honestly can't think of one single raid instance that bored me in that entire expansion.

[Deleted]

Interesting how people are claiming Wrath was the best.

Check the link ive added above will explain it for u...

[Kisho]

Hm. So here's a summary of raiding in each expansion:

Vanilla: Unbalanced classes, boring bosses, crazy organisational requirements, etc. Terrible, but then I don't think anyone is seriously trying to say Vanilla was the best for raiding. Not anymore, at least...

TBC: Most DPS classes reduced to one-button spambots, only 1 spec per DPS class being actually viable for DPS, Druids being physically incapable of tanking the last boss of BT, Paladins being the only tank class that can effectively AoE tank... I could keep going. Boss designs were quite cool though, so there's that.

WotLK: Only one raid actually standing out as incredible (Ulduar), with the rest being fairly awful (Naxx, TotC) or 'not bad' (ICC). Introduced 10/25 choice, which is good, and did a lot to help class/spec balance. Players started getting actual choice.

Cataclysm: 10/25 being effectively equal, giving players more choice. Classes/specs even more balanced, boss designs brilliant, but we just didn't get enough of it. Also left the expansion on a sour note (DS), while T11 was brilliant.

MoP: Outstanding first tier of raiding, brilliant second tier, almost all classes/specs viable, boss designs are outstanding for the most part. LFR provides even more accessibility to raids while still providing a great challenge in heroic modes.

I honestly don't see how anyone could say MoP isn't the best expansion for raiding. Or rather, the best expansion we've ever had. It's outstanding in almost every way.

[nekobaka]

Can you link me your main character?

I'd just like to check the dates when you completed Sartharion 3D or obtained the black proto-drake.

Ugg thanks for reminding me about the guild I was in that blew up from drama cause by a woman a bit before Ulduar launched and we was so close to a 25 man 3DS. I went back to PuG raiding and ended up killing Yogg in 10 man.

[Pua]

Of course it's only my experience, but this doesn't happen as much now. I went through four guilds that were destroyed by that before getting into one that was just starting T5. That guild was then destroyed by T6 content for the same reason.

I've never suffered this problem worse than in MoP.

Essentially, players don't want to progress these days. If you're a normal mode guild, you're probably going to be recruiting people who are lower on progress than you are, probably devoting time to training and gearing people you pluck from LFR. The risk is that they're either not good enough or, more commonly for me, believe they're too good to wipe while learning an encounter. There are plenty of guilds out there willing to pick up people in reasonable gear so it takes next to no effort for Billy-no-boss-kills to jump the ladder, complete a few more kills that are on farm for their new guild and the cycle repeats.

Seriously, my guild had one of the worst Blood DK's I've ever seen on Argent Dawn. His positioning was awful, his DPS was extremely poor (outhit by me on every single fight, despite being better geared) and he refused, point-blank, to move away from mouse clicking. Yet a more progressed guild were looking for a DK, took a chance on him, and he was soon running around with multiple heroic kills and the gear to match.

Obviously, this is purely anecdotal but I'd be amazed if I was the only one who had come across this behaviour.