I wonder how Blizzard will explain this...

[Deleted]

CATALYSM:
Garrosh Hellscream says: I sent you to Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Instead, you laid waste to the land. Murdered innocents, children even...

MISTS OF PANDARIA:
Garrosh Hellscream says: WRAHAHAHA TRUE HORDE!!!! DIE!!!! POWER!!!! MOUTAIN OF SKULLS!!!! CRUSH!!! KILL!!! RIVERS OF BLOOD!!!



I just wonder how Blizz will explain this CHANGE when I'll ask them 'bout it at this year's Blizzcon. That's some poor story telling right there :P And why wouldhe bother quiting Saurfang if he cannot stand up to these words?

[Ilir]

Yeah I wonder how some kids can turn into psycho killers or dictator... you know... time passes by... people change... et cetera, et cetera.

[Noctifer616]

People change. This is a world of war and conflict, it's not so hard to understand that a leader of one of the two factions would become obsessed with power and greed. I am not shocked at all that someone who would never harm a child would later on kill it in cold blood if it means getting the upper hand in a long conflict.

[Wildtree]

Why wait for BlizzCon, when common sense answers that before you even try to ask anyone?

Power struck.... That's the answer.
Garrosh got overwhelmed by all the matters he has/had to deal with.
If we were IRL, one could create a profile about him, as a "human" who had been through hell and back, seeing too much bloodshed, and cruelty. He developed PTSD over time, yet in his position as leader never found the time to rest, nor the treatment required, to deal with this without severe psychological side effects.

In short. He was overworked, overwhelmed and turned into a nutcase.
The bad side of it is, that he is at the very top of the chain. He is the one in absolute power. Much like IRL dictators who went through identical or similar transitions.

[Rend Blackhand]

CATALYSM:
Garrosh Hellscream says: I sent you to Stonetalon Mountains with an army. Your orders were to secure this land for the Horde.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Instead, you laid waste to the land. Murdered innocents, children even...

MISTS OF PANDARIA:
Garrosh Hellscream says: WRAHAHAHA TRUE HORDE!!!! DIE!!!! POWER!!!! MOUTAIN OF SKULLS!!!! CRUSH!!! KILL!!! RIVERS OF BLOOD!!!



I just wonder how Blizz will explain this CHANGE when I'll ask them 'bout it at this year's Blizzcon. That's some poor story telling right there :P And why wouldhe bother quiting Saurfang if he cannot stand up to these words?

Blizz guy 1: You know what? I can't be bothered to try and make Garrosh more likeable. Why did we say we would do that?
Blizz guy 2: I agree, lets just scrap this and make him an arsehole and shoe-horn him in as a raid boss.

[xskarma]

Garrosh Hellscream says: The Old One calls to you, The Heart will be your end.

He's having visions because of the Heart, strengthening stupid ideas he's had since the failed take over of Theramore (and Kalimdor). He's just power hungry and easily manipulated.

[Jce]

I don't think it was just power. I think it was character progression. During "The Shattering" by Christie Golden, Garrosh had no idea that Magatha had poisoned Gorehowl, and after discovering this fact apologized to Baine. When Magatha had sent a request to him for his aid on the attack of Thunder Bluff, he denied her and told her that he hoped she'd die a slow, painful death. He even helped the tauren with their water and quilboar problem in Mulgore. This guy was really trying to be a good leader, he only claimed that he'd force the lumber from the Alliance if they didn't cooperate was because his people live in a desert and he was desperate to give them what he believed they deserve. This was an excellent character, but in MoP, for whatever reason, the character did a complete 180 and turned into a total asshat. I hate how they ruined his personality, but I guess you gotta progress the story somehow...

/sigh

[melodramocracy]

I just wonder how Blizz will explain this CHANGE when I'll ask them 'bout it at this year's Blizzcon. That's some poor story telling right there :P And why wouldhe bother quiting Saurfang if he cannot stand up to these words?

Stonetalon is something he probably considers a moment of weakness on his own part, and is historically an exception to his behavior.

[Holtzmann]

Stonetalon is something he probably considers a moment of weakness on his own part, and is historically an exception to his behavior.

Pretty much this. Garrosh has always been about shedding blood and killing Alliance at all costs. Stonetalon is the out-of-character moment, not what he's done in Pandaria.

[Milkyz]

Doesn't this makes the character feel much more real? Whenever I see a character that is 100% bad or 100% good it feels very artificial.

So I suppose Blizzard would be thankful for you for pointing out how it's noticeable how he's isn't 100% rawr mode.

Oh, and you have my thanks too. I haven't done Horde quests on new Azeroth, this brings me a nice point of view of things!

[Daovan]

With Garrosh being killed / dethroned, I'm kinda wondering how he'll send 85's to Pandaria for them to get to 90 to come back and kill him when he's already dead before he sent new people to the new lands

[Rotted]

Its people like you make the guys at the con lose all faith in the gaming community

[GKLeatherCraft]

Or you could just use some basic common sense instead of trying to pick apart and try to find faults in things where there clearly are none -.-'

[Fugazi]

Well Metzen lost it in TBC.

[Stormdash]

Could be as simple as his real objection being that the decisions made in Stonetalon weren't his. He wasn't upset at killing women and children so much as he was upset at freelance killing of women and children that reflected on him without his knowledge or consent. When the Horde kills women and children, it will be because Garrosh Hellscream commanded it.

There, reconciled.

[Venziir]

Constant war makes you go wacko.

[siccora]

the sha of happiness messed with him

[Stormdash]

Stop talking when you clearly don't have a clue.

What exactly is the flaw? Read the Stonetalon dialogue again. Where in there does Garrosh announce he has a deeply held moral objection to slaughter of innocents, women, children, etc? You won't find it, 'cuz it ain't there. "Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?" -- the answer was no, but because Garrosh himself hadn't decided to be. Krom'gar turned him into one on his own say-so, and that was unacceptable.

Thread set a rubik's cube in front of me and I solved it. Sorry.

[laughtrey]

Or you could just use some basic common sense instead of trying to pick apart and try to find faults in things where there clearly are none -.-'

Shut up. This is a big deal. If they're going to presume to tell a story in this game and act as if it is a big driving force behind the game itself, then people will look at it and take it as that. They write books and a good portion of entertainment mediums surrounding the story, if they make a crappy one people will notice and take issue with it.

Garrosh has been around and consistent as a character for a long time now, and mostly he's been a confused young skillful hotheaded Orc but he had a sense of honor and never any hint at betrayal for the other races of the Horde. Even without going outside into comics and books, Garrosh in game has had a few good lines of dialogue where he reaffirms that honor is as important as victory.

It's absolutely deus ex machina to have Garrosh turn into an entirely different character to justify what he does, without a good explanation for it. They just want him and Varian to die, so they somewhat hastily turned him into a raving lunatic in MoP after showing a slow upward crawl into realization.


Right now it's too early to judge. There's mixed messages about him being corrupted or influenced and there's no way to know. We could also not find out what drove him into this fervor until a later date. If it's foreshadowing for more Burning Legion influenced Orcs for the next expansion, then redemption will be necessary.

[DeadmanWalking]

Only the insane think that what they do is inherently evil. People tend to do evil things for reasons they think are perfectly justifiable. For example if you were a Mutant in the Marvel universe and you decided to become Militant and kill humans to protect Mutant-kind you would never actually call yourself the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

Now Deathwing was insane, his ultimate goal was to oppress all races on Azeroth while setting Dragonkind as the superior species of which he would be top dog and Alexstraza would be his baby maker, but the things he was doing to get what he wanted would actually destroy Azeroth so there would be no life left to rule. Insanity.

Garrosh however isn't insane, he's doing things to achieve his goal, Old Horde style Orc Supremecy. He's always been against Thrall's attempts to pansify the Orcs, he's always bucked this newer nicer Orc force. He looks at his allies and see's sad sacks that are sucking off the teet of Orc soldiers work. He will stop at nothing for complete domination and when Garrosh comes he comes big, he comes heavy and he comes hard. He's not the general who hides a force of riders in the treeline to assault your exposed flanks, he is the general who digs tunnels under your forces and sets them up with barrels of explosives and blows the ground off from under your feet and he's a big fan of the NIFOS approach.

That doesn't mean that he doesn't have any morales, its just that his desire to win allows him to make exceptions of hyocritical porportions in order to achieve his goal, old Horde style Orc Supremecy.