Taran Zhu: Justified Hatred

[Guyviroth]

The Horde trying to fight the Shado-Pan would be like a paladin trying to defend farm from five rogues. Ain't gonna happen.

[KrazyK923]

Yeah, especially Taran Zhu.

I'll just say, in "Shadows of the Horde," Vol'jin struggles to fight a Mogu, where as Taran Zhu then just utterly destroys one a few moments later. That guy is a bamf.

[Shedeo]

That's a bit difficult to say. Quests will always give the impression of those you're working for being rather weak, as it comes off as you doing all the work. However, player characters aside, with the Shado-Pan essentially being Pandaria's only military force, and the Shrine of Two Moons supposedly being a bastion for refugees with the Sunwalkers acting as its guards, I think they'd probably have the advantage.

I think that the Shado-Pan could have easily removed the Horde from the Shrine if they wished if only because this wouldn't be something they would announce. The Horde would not know that the Shado-Pan wished to remove them, there would suddenly be dozens of near-simultaneous neck-stabbings across the Shrine and, in the ensuing chaos, the Shado-Pan would have had a vast advantage.

On the open field of battle? No chance.

In their element, with surprise on their side? Always bet on ninjas.

[KrazyK923]

Well the thing is they wouldn't just charge in and attack. They set up EVERYTHING they do.

Even when we're running around and helping them in Townlong Steppes, Taran Zhu is strategically taking the more important characters and moving them around.

[Airwaves]

The Horde would stand no chance against the Shado-Pan. Most of its forces are busy preparing to invade Ogrimmar.

They might win the shrine. But after the battle for Org the whole force of the horde would coming knocking on the shado-pans front door. There HQ wouldn't last a day.

[Florena]

If they close off the vale, the shado pan have a huge ass wall that has withstood countless mantid swarms. Not to mention that, especially in the middle of a civil war, can the horde really afford to divert attention to fighting the shado pan with the Alliance on their heels? In a straight up fight between the might of the horde and shado pan, the horde would win through numbers and resources, but there's no way the horde could hold the vale if the golden lotus and shado pan turned on them.

[Myzou]

His hatred WAS justified. He was not mad at the Alliance because THEY did not desecrate the SACRED Vale that they promised to PROTECT.

He gave them a chance, which clearly was a huge mistake, as the vale is now annihilated.

[Arbs]

The Strength if the Shado-Pan would overpower the Horde

[Airwaves]

His hatred WAS justified. He was not mad at the Alliance because THEY did not desecrate the SACRED Vale that they promised to PROTECT.

Well be fair OUR horde didn't do any of it. Hellscreams horde did it... what i do want to know is if the alliance promised to defend it. Why did they just sit there and watch the goblins did a big ass hole. Its kinda right in front of them.

[Thage]

The big thing about the Shado-Pan is that they don't always fight honorably, and they don't pretend to. They have an entire branch of assassins and saboteurs who would be more than able to wait until all the Horde at the Shrine are asleep, come in, and kill them all as they sleep--they even have darts coated in sleeping poison to take care of the sentries on night watch, and the most powerful warrior in the world isn't going to put up much of a fight if their throat's been slit in their sleep. Just seeing Taoshi eliminate Zandalari in the Isle of Thunder leadup should be proof enough of that.

The other thing is that the Alliance and Horde are directly responsible for the situation they were in. Dave Kosak, lead quest designer, is on-record as saying the Sha of Fear was empowered the second the faction landing parties set foot on Pandaria and started fighting each other, leading to massive Sha outbreaks (Lorewalker Cho even says Sha of the size and power we encounter were only heard of in legend), which led to the Sha of Fear corrupting the Mantid empress and forcing a swarm a hundred years before their cycle (a cycle which was dependable because the mantid swarmed every 1000 years like clockwork, not to conquer Pandaria but to put their youth through a Darwinian test of survival against the Shado-Pan, thereby ensuring only the strong would return to serve the empress and Klaxxi'va). More than half of the endgame release content was the Alliance and Horde cleaning up their own mess, which earned the Horde the benefit of the doubt when it became time to open the Vale, against Taran Zhu's (justified) protests. Taran Zhu pointed to the ruins of the Jade Forest as his proof; later he would also point to the fact that the factions turned Kasarang's beaches into bloody mud and bombed-out craters. Then the Horde dug up a huge swath of the Vale, abusing the good will of the Celestials and the Shado-Pan alike, and stole an Old God's heart (and no, saying the Shado-Pan should be glad isn't a valid argument. It's a post-facto fallacy and also assumes they should be glad Garrosh took something from their land that he intends to use to conquer them and force them to serve the Horde).

Taran Zhu's initial response would have been to kill everyone in the Shrine, which, as we saw in Dezco's short story, was nowhere near a fortified military base. It was a bunch of refugees and exhausted Horde warriors huddled together for warmth with a few scattered guards to keep it secure from an invasion. The fact that Horde adventurers helped with the Thunder King is all that stayed Taran Zhu's hand, and he settled to order the Horde out of his land. At Dezco's persuasion, he allowed the Horde until the season's turn to remove Garrosh and the Kor'kron from power, likely due to the parallels between Hellscream's 'True Horde' and the mogu that once enslaved the pandaren.

So all in all? He's absolutely justified, especially come next patch. The factions have done nothing but bring pain and sorrow to Pandaria and every now and then deign to clean up their own messes, all the while refusing to learn from the Shado-Pan and Lorewalkers who keep trying to tell them all they're doing is making things worse, and one faction is so hungry for resources it's willing to piss off the faction full of people who are more than willing to kill a shrine full of refugees in their sleep if it means keeping Pandaria safe from the Sha outbreak.

[Redmage]

Sorry, I just can't take the shado pan seriously.

Train for generations to safeguard pandaria from the Sha, not only do they fail spectacularly when the Sha finally reappear but they themselves become corrupted by the very thing they are supposedly the experts on fighting.

Pathetic.

[Thage]

Well be fair OUR horde didn't do any of it. Hellscreams horde did it... what i do want to know is if the alliance promised to defend it. Why did they just sit there and watch the goblins did a big ass hole. Its kinda right in front of them.

Likely because their shrine is just a bunch of refugees and tired warriors huddling together for warmth, same as the one the Horde's been loaned in Dezco's short story. The meat and potatoes of both factions are warring on Kasarang's beaches, with the Kirin Tor and blood elves on the Isle of Thunder going after the Zandalari-Mogu coalition and looking for something to give themselves the upper hand.

[KrazyK923]

Nicely said Callei.

I personally would love to see Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan in 5.4. I think, though, we're going to see more of the Golden Lotus, who get corrupted.

Sorry, I just can't take the shado pan seriously.

Train for generations to safeguard pandaria from the Sha, not only do they fail spectacularly when the Sha finally reappear but they themselves become corrupted by the very thing they are supposedly the experts on fighting.

Pathetic.

How many times do we have to explain...? I mean, you're free to continue to dislike them, I couldn't care less if you do, but your premise is incorrect.

[Thage]

Sorry, I just can't take the shado pan seriously.

Train for generations to safeguard pandaria from the Sha, not only do they fail spectacularly when the Sha finally reappear but they themselves become corrupted by the very thing they are supposedly the experts on fighting.

Pathetic.

Did you miss the part where someone whose sole purpose in life is to record and understand history flat-out tells us Sha of this size and power were only heard of in ages-old legends?

[Florena]

Well be fair OUR horde didn't do any of it. Hellscreams horde did it... what i do want to know is if the alliance promised to defend it. Why did they just sit there and watch the goblins did a big ass hole. Its kinda right in front of them.

Not like the Alliance has any more military presence than the horde did in the vale.

[KrazyK923]

Plus why would the Alliance try to stop the Horde from ruining their reputation?

[Sett]

I have been waiting for this for a few weeks.


-enjoys the youtube link-

[KrazyK923]

=D I shall not speak of why I couldn't.

But since you know me, Sett, you probably could figure it out really easily.

[Lunareste]

There is nothing to suggest that the Mogu and Zandalari would cause the Sha to manifest. Mainly because they would be versing the Pandaren, who know how to control their emotions.

Lol whaaaaaat? Did you pay attention to this expansion AT ALL?

It's made it quite clear that even the Shado-Pan, who pride themselves on being able to control their emotions (and thus why they would never defeat the Sha of Pride that Garrosh controls like a toy), are not able to do it. TONS of named Pandaren, with a role in the lore, lost control of their emotions and spawned Sha by themselves. Hell, Taran Zhu was being controlled by a sha in the Shado-Pan Monastery.

[KrazyK923]

...which happened after the Prime Sha were unleashed. And they were unleashed because the Horde and Alliance had no idea what the Sha were, nor did they particularly care when the found out (Except for a few certain individuals like Dezco or Anduin).

They could easily deal with random Sha bubbling up here and there, but they've never handled the Prime Sha running a muck. Mainly because they know how to control themselves so that it doesn't happen. And it also explains why everybody scrambles when the Primes are unleashed by the Horde and Alliance.

They've never dealt with the Prime Sha because they didn't have to. They've been sealed up by Shaohao and the Monkey King for 10,000 years. However, when they do get their shit together, Taran Zhu and the Shado-Pan, along with the player, directly defeat the Sha of Hatred.

Perhaps you are the one who hadn't paid attention this expansion