5.4 Trinket Discussion

[SinisterAsc]

What trinkets did you use flimflop? My RPPM was awful, I had really shit procs. 90% of pulls I got no procs. Going to use amp / CD reduction I think for the next test.

[Deleted]

Thoks tail tip (amp) & Assurance of Consequence (CD reduction). On openers with Bloodlust the damage output is pretty crazy even with a strength proc, ~850k burst on most pulls. Similar DPS every try with only some varying factors like legendary cloak. On another note, it feels like the latsest build has broken the Legendary cloak proc in some way.. but thats a post for another thread.

[Shinob1]

So the loot prio on Thok's Tail Tip should go to str users first, there should be no doubt about that. I'm wondering what the chances are we would be able to get that trinket from a coin. My best guess is 0%, but I hope blizz find a way to put this on a rogue loot(coin-roll)table as this trinket is so nice for us.

[Kulestu]

If your guild knows what they're doing and its BiS for rogues, they should let you get it.

Blizzard is either going to make an agility version, make it str-only (most likely, because blizzard wants to screw rogues) or leave it as is and not let us coin roll for t.

[Macor]

I didn't saw AoC str version though and didnt hear from our fury warrs there is 1
/salute Flimflop

[fierydemise]

Most recent PTR build had a ton of trinket changes:

5.2 Trinkets:
RSC: 10 second duration, buff increases every 1 second (down from 20, buff increases every 2 seconds), 1.21 RPPM (up from 0.7 RPPM)
Juju: 10 second duration (down from 20), 1.1 RPPM (up from 0.55 RPPM)
Vicious Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault: 115 second ICD (up from 105)

5.4 Trinkets:
Agi_5: 115 second ICD (up from 105)
Sigil of Rampage: 85 second ICD (up from 75)
Assurance of Consequence: 115 second ICD (up from 105)
Thok's Tail Tip: 7% Amplification (down from 14%), 115 second ICD (up from 105)
Ticking Ebon Detonator: 10 second duration, buff decreases every .5 seconds (down from 20 second duration, buff decreases every 1 second), 1.01 RPPM (up from 0.57 RPPM)
Harom's Talisman: 10 second duration (down from 20), 0.92 RPPM (up from 0.46 RPPM)

Basically, ICD trinkets had ICD increased. RPPM trinkets had durations halved and RPPM doubled (sometimes a bit less).

New EP Lists. Same caveats and conditions as before.

Assassination:

sigil_of_rampage_3_target: 8828.42217528
heroic_thunder_bad_juju: 8035.79761154
agi_5: 7928.23465741
sigil_of_rampage_2_target: 7774.28213533
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault: 7535.95974888
assurance_of_consequence: 7533.65954962
heroic_bad_juju: 7462.26394224
ticking_ebon_detonator: 7186.50403248
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 7140.92245691
thunder_bad_juju: 7112.46400267
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm: 6751.2583449
bad_juju: 6720.44993564
sigil_of_rampage: 6720.14209538
heroic_thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 6465.78982612
haroms_talisman: 6396.79219178
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 6322.44012299
heroic_talisman_of_bloodlust: 6109.32167314
renatakis_soul_charm: 5974.79302864
thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 5727.89798635
lfr_bad_juju: 5572.13094005
talisman_of_bloodlust: 5414.16485598
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 5380.83571471
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault_hit_cap: 5257.82669224
thoks_tail_tip: 5100.56272937
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 5086.61009614
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm: 4956.08118694
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 4763.27652488
renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 4501.02176677
lfr_talisman_of_bloodlust: 4494.94603713
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 3732.45923945
amp_int/spirit: 3100.29102165

Combat:

assurance_of_consequence: 18851.0897391
sigil_of_rampage_3_target: 12486.1209147
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 10594.9574319
sigil_of_rampage_2_target: 10254.2145738
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm: 9761.84363479
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault: 9546.41026602
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 9142.6711216
heroic_thunder_bad_juju: 8681.16944015
renatakis_soul_charm: 8640.87883416
agi_5: 8315.9016962
haroms_talisman: 8240.20122134
sigil_of_rampage: 8022.30823285
heroic_bad_juju: 7903.67178692
ticking_ebon_detonator: 7527.75468059
thunder_bad_juju: 7401.32884976
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm: 7170.38749653
bad_juju: 6994.01817235
heroic_thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 6908.51769254
heroic_talisman_of_bloodlust: 6533.50839589
thoks_tail_tip: 6497.66492059
thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 6120.64699331
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault_hit_cap: 5836.83191694
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 5818.28652342
lfr_bad_juju: 5800.5202182
talisman_of_bloodlust: 5785.60373412
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 5244.18170824
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 4911.28228032
lfr_talisman_of_bloodlust: 4803.78389225
renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 4641.23487143
amp_int/spirit: 4484.82809926
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 3849.61970744

Subtlety:

sigil_of_rampage_3_target: 13332.6207081
sigil_of_rampage_2_target: 11433.4057235
heroic_thunder_bad_juju: 10042.1324585
sigil_of_rampage: 9534.19073898
assurance_of_consequence: 9311.33984487
heroic_bad_juju: 9303.58367649
thunder_bad_juju: 8887.22644834
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 8872.73855642
ticking_ebon_detonator: 8812.13405076
heroic_thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 8460.74530901
bad_juju: 8396.96900462
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault: 8388.52873295
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm: 8388.18038583
agi_5: 8086.86255759
heroic_talisman_of_bloodlust: 8001.51007423
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm: 7855.13815132
haroms_talisman: 7811.05720048
thunder_talisman_of_bloodlust: 7495.52526384
renatakis_soul_charm: 7422.95930356
talisman_of_bloodlust: 7085.12306664
heroic_thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 7021.74740265
lfr_bad_juju: 6960.99896718
vicious_talisman_of_the_shado-pan_assault_hit_cap: 6893.36639497
heroic_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 6637.55690307
thunder_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 6215.44735757
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm: 6156.58895283
lfr_talisman_of_bloodlust: 5882.58964728
renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 5873.07116282
thoks_tail_tip: 5279.88748421
lfr_renatakis_soul_charm_exp_cap: 4869.76976031
amp_int/spirit: 3274.70388414

[Kulestu]

What's Agi_5? Sigil of Rampage is the cleave? I'd be shocked if Thok's doesn't just fall off after that, and I'm disappointed that they chose to just nerf it, instead of actualy doing something useful to the others. Detonator proc would make it even worse, 10 seconds of an agility buff isn't a whole lot.

I'm disappointed, looks like Blizzard realized that Thok's tail was too strong, so they nerfed it hard and then went through and nerfed everything else by a little bit.

[fierydemise]

Agi_5 is a so far unnamed agi trinket with static agi and a mastery proc. It feels like a VP trinket but there isn't any other VP gear so I'm not sure. Sigil of Rampage is the cleave trinket.

The nerf to the ICD trinkets is I suspect based on the realization that RPPM needs to be more reliable so increase proc chance, reduce proc duration. Additionally providing some compensation to RPPM trinkets vs. ICD trinkets for being more unreliable just like on use trinkets are generally weaker than ICD. Overall I think the changes were good on balance or at the very least logical.

[Kulestu]

Wow shado-pan trinket went WAY up. I'm generally pretty disappointed with the trinkets in 5.4 already, so it shouldn't be a shocker that I'm disappointed with what they're doing here again.

I realize that these trinkets are normal mode trinkets, and therefor only four ilvl above what we currently have with heroic thunderforged, but I think that there's definitely something wrong with them being so undesirable. I'm also not happy with how insanely weak the multistrike trinket is. It definitely needs some tuning.

[fierydemise]

Its important to remember with Shado Pan that the ranking assumes full use of the yellow hit which is worth between 2.2 and 2.5 EP so the value is somewhat inflated.

The big issue with the multistike trinket, especially for assassination is it just doesn't proc off a lot of stuff, IP procs and VW procs in particular. The same goes for the cleave trinket which means the actual proc effects tend to dominate the overall effect.

[shadowboy]

The takehome lesson of Fierydemise's most recent post:

When dealing with trinkets with a capped stat, treat the higher EP as an upper bound and the lower EP as a lower bound. The real value of the trinket is somewhere in between the two depending on how far over the cap you are.

[Maelstrom51]

Pretty disappointing that trinkets are getting nerfed so hard. I bet that Assassination gets no compensation either, since we're one of the highest single target dps spec right now.

[whathump]

Well, on the bright side we won't have to worry about loot councils and everyone needing thok's.

[Sicktight]

The increase on the ICD trinkets is for the better. They will line up better with two min CDs that are reduced by Assurance of Consequence. I know the synchronization of the trinkets and vendetta was a little off.

[Deleted]

@fierydemise
It's still early in the morning so I blame that if it's my eyes failing, but those are "only" normal SoO trinkets correct? Seems odd if Bad juju would stay 2nd BiS for next tier aswell otherwise.

[theherecy]

@fierydemise
It's still early in the morning so I blame that if it's my eyes failing, but those are "only" normal SoO trinkets correct? Seems odd if Bad juju would stay 2nd BiS for next tier aswell otherwise.

Would make sense with his logical naming scheme of the "heroic_" prefix. I share your concerns too!

[fierydemise]

Yes T16 trinkets are normal only.

[Kryptomaniac]

Agi_5 is a so far unnamed agi trinket with static agi and a mastery proc. It feels like a VP trinket but there isn't any other VP gear so I'm not sure.

Was just confirmed. Discipline of Xuen 50000 Timeless Coins. Yay for farming on Tuesday to get trinkets when patch drops ^_^ Sidenote: could you add in time lost artifact trinket to the EP list (on front page) for sake of thoroughness. I won't ever use it, but i'm sure a lot out there will.

[whathump]

Was just confirmed. Discipline of Xuen 50000 Timeless Coins. Yay for farming on Tuesday to get trinkets when patch drops ^_^ Sidenote: could you add in time lost artifact trinket to the EP list (on front page) for sake of thoroughness. I won't ever use it, but i'm sure a lot out there will.

Considering mobs drop about 50 coins, that's about 1000 kills needed to get it.

[Deleted]

I believe that "Agi_5" EP is with 553 iLv, 535 is going to be way below current heroic ones.