Sounds like they are really buffing combat in 5.4, with the cd reduction trinket potentially allowing you to roll your CDs constantly and the proc on the leg cloak likely being stronger for combat
Sounds like they are really buffing combat in 5.4, with the cd reduction trinket potentially allowing you to roll your CDs constantly and the proc on the leg cloak likely being stronger for combat
Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
You are saying thats too high right? Cause I strongly disagree. It has to be that high pretty much for it to even out. RS procs are a 20% chance so 1 charge on average for 5 SS. Even without crit stacking (which it seems the 2pc will promote), you have over a 50% chance to proc seal fate on a mutilate.
Simulation/theory request:
With the 1/1.39 reduced CD for Shadow Blades, with and without the T15 4p, how will decoupling AR/SB compare to lining them up? I imagine the ~28% shorter CD on SB will cause decoupling to pull further ahead and increase # of uses of both abilities, but head-math is a little fuzzy right now, embroiled in a project.
Edit: DISREGARD. Totally missed another relevant post.
Last edited by Kael; 2013-07-04 at 07:38 PM.
Rogue Forum Moderator (formerly Mugajak)
Former Electric Sheep Recruitment Officer (They're Great!) - Kaeldraens
Just based on intuition (no numbers or back of the envelope calculations), I don't see how a shorter cd will favor decoupling them. The synergy from coupling them is not diminished by uptime (if anything, coupling them will lead to greater uptime as it does now).
shadowboy, unless I'm not following this quote correctly:
suggests that SB's base CD will be 50s shorter than AR's (180 - 180/1.39) - thus you'd have to delay, what, 20 seconds on SB for it to line up?
I'm thinking AR/SB -> SB -> AR until they nearly overlap again is likely to pull ahead... although it might not!
EDIT: DISREGARD. Re-equipping the trinket fixes the issue (thanks shadowboy for pointing out my loopiness and wow for finding that out >.>)
Last edited by Kael; 2013-07-04 at 07:39 PM.
Rogue Forum Moderator (formerly Mugajak)
Former Electric Sheep Recruitment Officer (They're Great!) - Kaeldraens
The trinket works on AR and KS, if you follow up that post and read later someone mentioned that you have to unequip/re-equip the trinket for it to work on AR/KS after switching specs.
Either way, AR was 2.16min for me (matching the 2.16 of SB) and KS was 1.44 min when I equipped it.
It's an incredibly unbalanced version of the PTR, everything is still subject to wild change, big things are still being added and some things even removed wholesale. At the moment, the only real thing we can be sure of is the rough direction they're taking trinkets this tier, not much more.
I am the lucid dream
Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh
I found a highly interesting bug that has something to do with the interaction between the CD trinket and Shadow Blades. I cannot confirm it since I forgot to screenshot it and not sure how to replicate it, but I had a 1.12min CD on Shadow Blades at some point after spec switching from Assassination to Combat with the trinket equipped. I also noticed that the cooldown of spec-only CDs wasn't correctly lowered until after unequipping and requipping the trinket, which I am not sure if it affected Shadow Blades or not (I initially noticed this when switching back to Assassination and Vendetta was still at 2 minutes while Shadow Blades correctly showed 2.16min.
So today i logged in on the RTP to test out the new trinkets and its seems the CD reduction one will be BiS currently it reduces the CD's of
Assassination Spec
Shadownblades 2.16 minutes
Vendatta 1.25 minutes
Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
Vanish 1.44 minutes
Evasion 2.16 minutes
Combat Spec
Shadownblades 2.16 minutes
Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
Evasion 2.16 minutes
Adrenaline Rush 2.16 Minutes
Killingspree 1.44 Minutes
Subtlety Spec
Shadowblades 2.16 minutes
Cloak of Shadows 43.2 Seconds
Smokebomb 2.16 minutes
Vanish 1.44 minutes
Evasion 2.16 minute
Shadowdance 43.2 Seconds
this trinket should be BiS for all 3 specs i guess did anyone did the math already ? i'd like to hear your opinions about this trinket its pretty much OP if you ask me
also noticed a bug where you switched Spezialisation and did not unequipp trinket the CD were normal on some skills like AR and KS and Shadow dance
Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-07-09 at 11:32 PM.
the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :
-Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}
yes that trinket is by far OP but then again all the classes gets a similar one so , but tbh combat Restless Blades + that trinket /facepalm AR+SB every min or so KS every 45sec or so not even funny time to buy new keyboards guys
It's not a bug and i think it's intended. Changing specs makes you change spells, and the CD reduction of the trinket is an "on equip" effect - hence it's applied to the corresponding spells when you actually equip it. It doesn't have a memory of your specs/cooldowns.
Also this avoids an incorrect update of the CDs and cheesy things like changing specs and equip the trinket multple times to reduce CDs to 0.
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
Ideally your cooldown would just check for the presence of the trinket when you cast it; no swapping issues and no way to cheat it, but why they can't do that mechanically (besides needing a second element to update the UI) I don't know.
Merged trinket threads - good to see this consolidated.
Rogue Forum Moderator (formerly Mugajak)
Former Electric Sheep Recruitment Officer (They're Great!) - Kaeldraens
That's exactly the point - i don't think they have a way to make a spell check what trinket you have equipped; it's the opposite - the trinket adds an additional effect to certain spells when you equip it, and that's the only moment they can make a spec check to choose correct spells to improve.
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
sound like a lame excuse to me if you unequip it the reduce goes away if you equipt it the reduce applys dont tell me the devs are not smart enough to make this reduce a steady reduce its not like the numbers are far off from each other every 1 min CD becomes a 43.2 second CD every 3 min cd 2.16 every 2 min cd 1.44 its not hard to implement this. but then again this is still PTR and we will see how they final version looks
i tested it with all 3 specs and well coumbat felt more spammy then before its like you have AR and SB aviable every minute also KS is ready after every burst ^^
i liked it on assa too more vendetta and SB's are a great thing
well idk what to say about sub since i dont like it that much maybe someday OR if sub realy would be THE best progression spec on some fights then i'll switch witht the 43.2 cd in shadowdance i understand why the nerfed the 4pc bonus
Last edited by Koji2k11; 2013-07-10 at 09:15 AM.
the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :
-Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}
Lame excuse or not, it's more a techincal issue than a bug, and could be potentially not solvable. It all depends on how they can do the requred checks - see my previous post.
Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.
I've been very curious over the last few days as to how the 'CD reducing trinket' will affect the value of both the Tier 15 and Tier 16 4-sets. Obviously the Tier 16 pieces are more valuable when not involving a trinket, but we are yet to know if the significantly reduced CD of SB will keep the 4-set alive and kicking for a few more weeks into patch 5.4. It's certainly complimenting to the tier 15 bonus, but will it be enough to outweigh the benefits from tier 16 2/4-set when taking the recent 2-set nerfs into account?
More to the point - Is there anyone out there that is talented enough to SimCraft model the values of: Tier 15 4-set + CD Trinket Vs. Tier 16 2-set + CD Trinket Vs. Tier 16 4-set + CD Trinket ?
For progression purposes at least; knowing if we will want the 2/4 set ASAP is very useful information, as I'm sure everyone else can't wait to get their hands on that trinket...
Last edited by mmoc577502f578; 2013-07-22 at 11:46 PM.
Wait, is the t16 4pc worth breaking the t15 4pc for? I didn't see any numbers on that yet (just saw numbers on the set bonuses).