Zimmerman Trial

[Roxinius]

It was not Zimmerman's job to follow and report whereabouts, he got out of his truck looking for trouble. We know he did that because he got out of his truck looking for a person he viewed as dangerous. There is a difference in taking your gun with you to go to the store and taking your gun with you while you follow someone who you think is dangerous.

You are also assuming that Zimmerman did not wish to confront Martin as well but by choosing to follow someone who he thought was dangerous he knew there as a change that an altercation/confrontation may happen. Which is why I am thinking he took his gun with him and did not leave it in the car.


I don't know about Martin's mom because parents can be blind sometimes to the faults of their children and people tend to gloss over the negative parts of people personality when they die. I wonder how honest she will be when talking about her child.

you absolutely wrong i carry no matter where i go and if i was going to follow someone suspicious why the hell would i not want to have my gun just in case they have some sort of weapon on them there have been a few break ins around here where i live i from time to time will step outside just making sure everything is quite

[oxymoronic]

Or he could not go all Rambo and hunt down this dangerous Skittle eating arch criminal. Or follow the rules of his neighborhood
watch and not try to be a psycho vigilante to protect us from a teenager suspected of only being a black person at night.

Or he could just shoot the person most likely responsible for the break ins and save everybody in the neighborhood a little trouble.

PS Can't wait to see how the white liberal media acts when hes declared innocent. Ah man its going to be hilarious and I don't think there will be any LA riots as real black people know whats up with this.

[kunah]

I missed the trial today. Does anyone have a link to these neighborhood watch rules that I keep seeing referenced. Sorry if I missed it earlier.

There are as many watch programs as there are neighborhoods. The National Shefiffs Assoc oversees about 20,000. Zimm broke almost every rule possible. Armed, alone and fighting with the suspect. The rules are there for a good reason as we saw in this case. Zimm would not be on trial and the kid would not be dead if he complied.

An OT. These watch programs have been hugely successful in lowering violent and property crimes since the early 90s. They are a good thing.

google USAonWatch for the pdfs.

- - - Updated - - -

Or he could just shoot the person most likely responsible for the break ins and save everybody in the neighborhood a little trouble.

PS Can't wait to see how the white liberal media acts when hes declared innocent. Ah man its going to be hilarious and I don't think there will be any LA riots as real black people know whats up with this.

most likely responsible. Doesnt get any better than this.

[Ebildays]

I don't think there's a difference. Then again, I don't pack heat. Maybe one of the more fervent gun enthusiasts (which apparently haven't made their way to the thread yet tonight) would like to touch on that. But I'd guess that GZ probably carried his firearm frequently and didn't just grab it out of his trunk for this imminently dangerous act carried out by a depraved mind regardless of human life. I could be wrong tho.



I am indeed also assuming that GZ did not wish to confront TM with he intent to kill him, as he is being charged. I would presume that with the evidence put forth thus far, I would be joined by the rough majority of the country in that assumption. Again, I'm not very familiar with the frequency in which GZ carried his firearm, but I'd be assuming again that it was more than "only on black perp pursuits."

Edit:


This would be another example of an assumption.

You kindly forgot to quote the part where I said why I made that assumption.
"We know he did that because he got out of his truck looking for a person he viewed as dangerous."

I think Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin if not why did he get out of his truck? He has already given the information to dispatch and only had to wait on them to give his story. Do think he had the intent to kill Martin when he confronted him, no. This case is not black and white either he is innocent or he is "depraved mind" he could simply be a man caught up in his on fantasy of being the hero. But that does not mean he should get away with taking the life of someone coming home from the store. That is why I can see a manslaughter charge but not a 2nd degree. As for the race angle Zimmerman may have "profiled" Martin but I think that issue has more to do with how the police handled the case given the racial problems they had before this happened.

you absolutely wrong i carry no matter where i go and if i was going to follow someone suspicious why the hell would i not want to have my gun just in case they have some sort of weapon on them there have been a few break ins around here where i live i from time to time will step outside just making sure everything is quite

The big question you need to ask yourself is why you are following someone you think is suspicious? Is it your job to make sure everything is quite? And why would you follow someone who you think may have some sort of weapon after you have called the police? Most people will try not to put themselves in harms way, they will wait for the police to come, not try and play cops and robbers.

https://www.bja.gov/Publications/NSA_NW_Manual.pdf

Is one link for the neighborhood watch.

Or he could just shoot the person most likely responsible for the break ins and save everybody in the neighborhood a little trouble.

PS Can't wait to see how the white liberal media acts when hes declared innocent. Ah man its going to be hilarious and I don't think there will be any LA riots as real black people know whats up with this.

But he shot someone who had nothing to do with the break ins and how would he know who was most likely responsible for the break ins? I don't like the idea of just shooting someone we think may be robbing people.

And what is that real black people know?

[Roxinius]

You kindly forgot to quote the part where I said why I made that assumption.
"We know he did that because he got out of his truck looking for a person he viewed as dangerous."

I think Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin if not why did he get out of his truck? He has already given the information to dispatch and only had to wait on them to give his story. Do think he had the intent to kill Martin when he confronted him, no. This case is not black and white either he is innocent or he is "depraved mind" he could simply be a man caught up in his on fantasy of being the hero. But that does not mean he should get away with taking the life of someone coming home from the store. That is why I can see a manslaughter charge but not a 2nd degree. As for the race angle Zimmerman may have "profiled" Martin but I think that issue has more to do with how the police handled the case given the racial problems they had before this happened.



The big question you need to ask yourself is why you are following someone you think is suspicious? Is it your job to make sure everything is quite? And why would you follow someone who you think may have some sort of weapon after you have called the police? Most people will try not to put themselves in harms way, they will wait for the police to come, not try and play cops and robbers.

https://www.bja.gov/Publications/NSA_NW_Manual.pdf

Is one link for the neighborhood watch.

yes cause calling the cops means they are there in the blink of an eye when seconds count the police are only minutes away

[jbombard]

There are as many watch programs as there are neighborhoods. The National Shefiffs Assoc oversees about 20,000. Zimm broke almost every rule possible. Armed, alone and fighting with the suspect. The rules are there for a good reason as we saw in this case. Zimm would not be on trial and the kid would not be dead he complied.

An OT. These watch programs have been hugely successful in lowering violent and property crimes since the early 90s. They are a good thing.

google USAonWatch for the pdfs.

- - - Updated - - -



most likely responsible. Doesnt get any better than this.

He wasn't on patrol when he saw Trayvon, it isn't like you have another person from the watch attached to your hip. He has the right to carry a weapon, 2nd amendment and all that. He was not fighting with the suspect so far the evidence shows he was attacked by the subject. So the only thing we know for sure is that you like to ignore the evidence and just make up whatever story you like because you don't care about evidence you just want Zimmerman to hang so you can get your pound of flesh. Here have this handkerchief and wipe some of that foam off of your mouth. Anger is bad mmkay.

[Payday]

Found some emails between GZ and Officer Wendy pertaining to a meeting between the RTL neighborhood watch and the Sanford Police. It took place Sept 2011, 5 months before Trayvon. The purpose of the meeting was to address the recent wave of burglaries, as well as some of the residents lighting concerns and rentals in the community.

http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-c...P-Binder-1.pdf

[The Riddler]

That's a terrible analogy.

No it's not. It's called a continuation of the logic. When I see someone say, "That's a terrible analogy" and provide no substantive reason WHY they think it is a bad analogy it is my studied conclusion that the analogy is perfectly fine and the person simply has no substantive counter-argument. Therefore they simply say, "terrible analogy" and then dive for the rhetorical tall-grass.

Anyhoo - nothing really new or important came up today. Just a re-hash of everything that's been known for months. Looking more and more like the prosecution's got no arrows left in the quiver and this is the prosecution's case to lose if they do something stupid.

Who carries pepper spray on them at all times

To be fair, if !I! was in Zimmerman's position and was doing a 'neighborhood watch' thing, then I'd go out on patrol with mace, a kubtan, AND a gun. The gun would be only for the uttermost last resort. The pepper spray would be for first-line self defense. If I was Zimmerman and I was following around a lone individual, then I'd have my had the pepper spray in my hand ready to use in case the guy doubled back and tried something. In all fairness, I don't see why someone would go out and patrol a neighborhood known to have a history of crime and my only weapon is a gun.

Seems like someone in that position would take a good flashlight, a can of pepper spray, a kubotan or some other force multiplier, and a gun as a last fail safe.

[kunah]

yes cause calling the cops means they are there in the blink of an eye when seconds count the police are only minutes away

Took 13 minutes from the initial call to the paramedics to pronounce him dead. And if Zimm had not already cried wolf so many times maybe the police would have taken him serious. And I might add that being a black man walking at night is not on the list of things that the police want to hear about. They want to hear about people looking in windows/cars, broken doors etc.

- - - Updated - - -

He wasn't on patrol when he saw Trayvon, it isn't like you have another person from the watch attached to your hip. He has the right to carry a weapon, 2nd amendment and all that. He was not fighting with the suspect so far the evidence shows he was attacked by the subject. So the only thing we know for sure is that you like to ignore the evidence and just make up whatever story you like because you don't care about evidence you just want Zimmerman to hang so you can get your pound of flesh. Here have this handkerchief and wipe some of that foam off of your mouth. Anger is bad mmkay.

The only evidence we have about who attacked who was provided by Zimmerman. Facts are good. mmk?

[NYC17]

No it's not. It's called a continuation of the logic. When I see someone say, "That's a terrible analogy" and provide no substantive reason WHY they think it is a bad analogy it is my studied conclusion that the analogy is perfectly fine and the person simply has no substantive counter-argument. Therefore they simply say, "terrible analogy" and then dive for the rhetorical tall-grass.

Anyhoo - nothing really new or important came up today. Just a re-hash of everything that's been known for months. Looking more and more like the prosecution's got no arrows left in the quiver and this is the prosecution's case to lose if they do something stupid.

I guess one's definition of important relies on what one wants out of this case.

[Payday]

You kindly forgot to quote the part where I said why I made that assumption.
"We know he did that because he got out of his truck looking for a person he viewed as dangerous."

I left it out because it's irrelevant and doesn't disprove GZ's claim of pursuing so he could better describe his location. This conflicts with the charge of he pursued him with the intent to kill him. Need to prove this. Current status: your assumption

I think Zimmerman wanted to confront Martin if not why did he get out of his truck? He has already given the information to dispatch and only had to wait on them to give his story. Do think he had the intent to kill Martin when he confronted him, no. This case is not black and white either he is innocent or he is "depraved mind" he could simply be a man caught up in his on fantasy of being the hero. But that does not mean he should get away with taking the life of someone coming home from the store. That is why I can see a manslaughter charge but not a 2nd degree. As for the race angle Zimmerman may have "profiled" Martin but I think that issue has more to do with how the police handled the case given the racial problems they had before this happened.

According to GZ, TM became aware that he was being watched, and fled. GZ asserts that he got out of the vehicle to better locate him. Again, you (and so far, the state) are assuming that GZ wanted a confrontation.

[jbombard]

Took 13 minutes from the initial call to the paramedics to pronounce him dead. And if Zimm had not already cried wolf so many times maybe the police would have taken him serious. And I might add that being a black man walking at night is not on the list of things that the police want to hear about. They want to hear about people looking in windows/cars, broken doors etc.

- - - Updated - - -



The only evidence we have about who attacked who was provided by Zimmerman. Facts are good. mmk?

We also have witness testimony.

7:11 is the initial phone call, 7:19 is when police arrive on scene. 8 minutes isn't that bad when you subtract the time for Zimmerman to explain to the operator what is happening and where, it is actually pretty fast. There goes that whole police don't take him seriously theory based on nothing, like all of your other posts.

[Ebildays]

yes cause calling the cops means they are there in the blink of an eye when seconds count the police are only minutes away

No, one was in imminent danger which is the only valid reason why someone would feel the need to not wait on the police. My home was broken into last year and shudder at the idea that one of my neighbors would put themselves in harms way or kill someone to save my tv. My neighbors called the police and made a note of where the people went with our goods. Once the police came we got our stuff back that day. And even if we did not we had homeowners so all was good anyway.

We don't need people playing cops in the neighbor any more then we need people breaking in homes, they are both dangerous.

Found some emails between GZ and Officer Wendy pertaining to a meeting between the RTL neighborhood watch and the Sanford Police. It took place Sept 2011, 5 months before Trayvon. The purpose of the meeting was to address the recent wave of burglaries, as well as some of the residents lighting and rentals in the community.

http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-c...P-Binder-1.pdf

Yeah, that has nothing to do with him getting out of the car and following Martin. If anything shows even more that Zimmerman knew he was not suppose to carry a gun or follow Martin on that night because he was working closely with Sanford Police.

[Payday]

We also have witness testimony.

7:11 is the initial phone call, 7:19 is when police arrive on scene. 8 minutes isn't that bad when you subtract the time for Zimmerman to explain to the operator what is happening and where, it is actually pretty fast. There goes that whole police don't take him seriously theory based on nothing, like all of your other posts.

Also, read the emails I linked.

[NYC17]

He wasn't on patrol when he saw Trayvon, it isn't like you have another person from the watch attached to your hip. He has the right to carry a weapon, 2nd amendment and all that. He was not fighting with the suspect so far the evidence shows he was attacked by the subject. So the only thing we know for sure is that you like to ignore the evidence and just make up whatever story you like because you don't care about evidence you just want Zimmerman to hang so you can get your pound of flesh. Here have this handkerchief and wipe some of that foam off of your mouth. Anger is bad mmkay.

The evidence only shows an altercation took place. Attacking is a different thing altogether. You can only speculate this by saying that Martin being on top at some point during an altercation means he initiated the fight.

[Payday]

Yeah, that has nothing to do with him getting out of the car and following Martin. If anything shows even more that Zimmerman knew he was not suppose to carry a gun or follow Martin on that night because he was working closely with Sanford Police.

I didn't say it did, I was just throwing it out for people that want to read it. Why don't you address some of the claims that you have yet to prove before you resort to nitpicking.

--

If anything shows even more that Zimmerman knew he was not suppose to carry a gun or follow Martin on that night because he was working closely with Sanford Police.

what?

[Imuhdude]

Exiting his vehicle running, with his gun aaaaaannnnnnnndddddd tactical flashlight before he shoots TM in what could arguable be said TM's own backyard. He was pursuing a confrontation or even capturing.

[jbombard]

No, one was in imminent danger which is the only valid reason why someone would feel the need to not wait on the police. My home was broken into last year and shudder at the idea that one of my neighbors would put themselves in harms way or kill someone to save my tv. My neighbors called the police and made a note of where the people went with our goods. Once the police came we got our stuff back that day. And even if we did not we had homeowners so all was good anyway.

We don't need people playing cops in the neighbor any more then we need people breaking in homes, they are both dangerous.



Yeah, that has nothing to do with him getting out of the car and following Martin. If anything shows even more that Zimmerman knew he was not suppose to carry a gun or follow Martin on that night because he was working closely with Sanford Police.

He obviously didn't think he was putting himself in harms way, Trayvon was running away at the time. He was asked what direction is he running, which prodded him to get out of the SUV. He wasn't doing anything more than trying to keep an eye on someone until the police arrive. The site of the shooting was not very far from where the SUV was parked which means Zimmerman didn't move very far to indicate a long chase, which means Trayvon came back. Why did he come back if all he wanted to do was get away?

[Ebildays]

I left it out because it's irrelevant and doesn't disprove GZ's claim of pursuing so he could better describe his location. This conflicts with the charge of he pursued him with the intent to kill him. Need to prove this. Current status: your assumption

Go read the 911 transcripts which is a bit different then what Zimmerman claims.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...ment/p2/a49098

He gives a pretty good description of the location that Martin goes in. Zimmerman lied about getting out to get a better location plain and simple, that is not an assumption.

According to GZ, TM became aware that he was being watched, and fled. GZ asserts that he got out of the vehicle to better locate him. Again, you (and so far, the state) are assuming that GZ wanted a confrontation.

Yet again the 911 tapes tell a different story then the one that Zimmerman is claiming and I am move willing to believe the official tapes then the story of a man trying not to spend a good portion of his life in prison.

[The Riddler]

Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter

He's probably guilty of accidental manslaughter with a possible commutation for self-defense. He MIGHT have been successfully prosecuted for criminally negligent manslaughter (though it is a longshot).

Too bad that's not what the State is trying to prosecute him for... With those as the charges they might have gotten somewhere.

I guess one's definition of important relies on what one wants out of this case.

As in all trials, there are two parties - neither one of which is interested in the truth. One Side "A" you have the prosecution which is trying to get the maximum possible amount of punishment. Side "B" is the defense, which is trying to get the least amount of punishment. Behind each side you have a "camp" of the public pushing for "A" Zimmerman's head on a platter or "B" Zimmerman walking out the court room free and clear. Neither side is particularly interested in such silly details as "truth", or "justice" except insofar as such things are convenient tools for what they want.

The population of people who are interested in the truth and actual justice in the case are - sadly - very few.