"you don't have any kills, sorry"... always hiding behind that same lame excuse

[ihatepeople]

Either pug or join a normal guild and get your experience and gear up. There's plenty of ways to get your feet in the door, especially if you're on a nicely populated server.

[Nohara]

99% of the puggroups arent progressing trough a raid, but simply gearing alts or a main that was on standby for the week. So, obviously, you arent part of that, you want personal progress. So, you are looking at the wrong spot for a raid. Join a raiding guild that you think that will fit your skill.

Experience>>>>Gear.

[Deleted]

I am on Kazzak and usually run alt pugs once a week. I don't have enough posts, so I can't send you a PM, but feel free to send me one with your battlenet ID, and we can see if we can figure something out.

Looking at your armory; you put more effort into your gear than many of the people who want to join and the fights aren't really mechanically complex.

And here we go. Playing on a high pop server pays off if you are interested in Normal mode raiding. I'd like to add to this that Flex raiding will provide you more content in 5.4, and it'll allow you to work your way up to Normal modes.

The problem here is that nothing can prove your skill in regards to this tier. LFR proves nothing at all, nor does Valor gear. All it does is it shows you put effort into your gear, and know how to gem, enchant, and forge your gear.

Your current gear is more than fine to clear complete ToT normal with. My first Lei Shen kill (on 25 man) was with my guild having an average similar gear ilvl.

You will have to try to sell yourself in one way or another. Why should the raid leader pick you over another fellow? Your gear gives you a plus. What more can you do?

*) Prove you played content pre-nerf in previous expansions. Achievement dates will show this.
*) Being a social in a well established guild can you give an edge.
*) Showing to the raid leader you know the tactics from Normal mode. For example, I'd take a random fellow like yourself if he could tell me what he would do on Lei Shen transitions. Point is you need to convince the raid leader. He may ask you a question regarding tactics if you pass the gear/effort test.

[Mad_Murdock]

In ToT gear it is hard to be less than 1000 hit over-cap. Comes from having a BiS trinket with over 1500 hit rating on it.

Just for clarity, since that last line may have been confusing. I'm not saying being over hit cap by 20 screams wrong things, I think most don't care to that degree. Seeing stam Gems, even if it's fairly irrelevent, does scream of badness.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Just for clarity, since that last line may have been confusing. I'm not saying being over hit cap by 20 screams wrong things, I think most don't care to that degree. Seeing stam Gema, even if it's fairly irrelevent, does scream of badness.

20 hit is neither here nor there. But gemming stamina is preferable to hit when completely over the cap if you absolutely must use a blue-compatible gem in the socket. Heck, spirit would be preferable to hit in that circumstance, but stamina might, at least, give you that buffer to have to move half a meter less away from the Thunderbolt and (as a ret pally for example) get an extra Art of War proc from the additional melee swing giving you a cooldown reset on Exorcism, which hits for over 100k damage and gives you an extra Holy Power.

[Deleted]

Join a guild.

[Deleted]

Just for clarity, since that last line may have been confusing. I'm not saying being over hit cap by 20 screams wrong things, I think most don't care to that degree. Seeing stam Gema, even if it's fairly irrelevent, does scream of badness.

If you use reforge tools such as Reforge Lite and want to get to the hit cap they will put you often slightly over it. It is natural and nothing wrong with it, since it assures your spells will never miss (unless say special circumstances like in Iron Qon or Feng). Sims will suggest there is a slight overall DPS increase when slightly under hit cap (depending also on the spec you sim) but this playstyle does not work on every encounter. Think Elegon with a warlock who cannot kill his spark because his spells keep missing. And yes, that's sadly an anecdotal example about a warlock who had ranks on nearly every fight but failed there and refused to forge to get his cap *sigh*...

So should a raid leader decline a spot to someone only on the merit of their hit cap slightly above or under the cap? No, they shouldn't mind.

Suffice to say Blizzard may remove hit in next expansion as GC suggested. Personally, can't wait...

[Mad_Murdock]

, but stamina might, at least, give you that buffer to have to move half a meter less away from the Thunderbolt and (as a ret pally for example) get an extra Art of War proc from the additional melee swing giving you a cooldown reset on Exorcism, which hits for over 100k damage and gives you an extra Holy Power.

Right, wrong or indifferent, I'm going to venture a guess that the majority of people you're trying to pug with will accept you being 1% over hit more than they will a DPS gemming Stam. No one is thinking, oh that extra 10K health they have will be all the difference between a kill or not. Past experience has shown us that folks who gem stam, are generally bad players. Obviously the Gems aren't why they are bad, they are just a warning label.

If I was trying to pug in with people who don't know me, I would not gem stam, even if you could come up with some great reason that it's technically better. Know the game (of pugging) and play it the best you can.

Suffice to say Blizzard may remove hit in next expansion as GC suggested. Personally, can't wait...

I'm with you, personally just to save the constant reforge cost if I get a hit heavy or expertise light item.

[anaxie]

Just for clarity, since that last line may have been confusing. I'm not saying being over hit cap by 20 screams wrong things, I think most don't care to that degree. Seeing stam Gema, even if it's fairly irrelevent, does scream of badness.

Really because almost all plate dps players who have any concept of how to gear from normal until full bis are gemming hybrid haste/ stam or str/stam gems in blue slots depending on preference because hit over the cap is useless but 120 stamina isn't. Socket bonus cannot be ignored when it is a net gain over the 160 lost rating.

When you get the perfect setup and weapon you are then allowed to finally rest on your 7.5% hitcap instead of 10%+

I myself was forced into 3 hybrid gems for the entirety of the content until just a few weeks ago. My hit finally dropped from 10%+ to 6% and I was able to adjust my gemming. Blame poor itemization with limited options for these scenarios.

My credentials? I am the top geared ret paladin in the WORLD and one of the best dps paladins playing the game. I might just know a thing or two about gearing.

infact I'm pretty sure the OP got this information from my thread to do this. So please skimp on the gearing advice. He already has the best advice in the game at his fingertips and knows where to find it for gearing.

[Choptimus]

stam > overcap hit in hc progress (if you're still progressing) and if they are done with progress then who gives a shit what they gem

- - - Updated - - -

No one is thinking, oh that extra 10K health they have will be all the difference between a kill or not.

In many heroic modes, 10k hp can and will save your life, especially when its not on farm already for a group.

[Deleted]

Really because almost all plate dps players who have any concept of how to gear from normal until full bis are gemming hybrid haste/ stam or str/stam gems in blue slots depending on preference because hit over the cap is fucking useless but 120 stamina isn't. Socket bonus cannot be ignored when it is a net gain over the 160 lost rating.

When you get the perfect setup and weapon you are then allowed to finally rest on your 7.5% hitcap instead of 10%+

I myself was forced into 3 hybrid gems for the entirety of the content until just a few weeks ago. My hit finally dropped from 10%+ to 6% and I was able to adjust my gemming. Blame poor itemization with limited options for these scenarios.

Those people you'd take just because of their ilvl. OP is not referring to this type of PuG tho. ToT normal PuGs generally don't have BiS gear, ya know...

[Mad_Murdock]

My credentials? I am the top geared ret paladin in the WORLD and one of the best dps paladins playing the game. I might just know a thing or two about gearing.

infact I'm pretty sure the OP got this information from my thread to do this. So please skimp on the gearing advice. He already has the best advice in the game at his fingertips and knows where to find it for gearing.

Whoa calm down there my man. Everyone experience is going to be different. I'm sure you do a lot of normal mode pugs so I'll defer to your expertise. My experience is that people running random pugs (that will probably not go farther than 6/12) are going to look at gemming stam poorly. You can call them complete morons and be 100% correct. I even stated that in the grand scheme of things, they could remain Gemless and it's not really going to make a difference.

I'm not even offering "gearing advice" I'm offering "perception advice" and like all advice it can be completely ignored.

In many heroic modes, 10k hp can and will save your life, especially when its not on farm already for a group.

We're talking about trying to get into some random normal mode pug with people you don't know. Not min\maxing for heroics. And really, how many times has it really be down to 320 stam that was the difference between a kill or not ?

[anaxie]

Those people you'd take just because of their ilvl. OP is not referring to this type of PuG tho. ToT normal PuGs generally don't have BiS gear, ya know...

Then he can refer them to my thread. and they can read my extremely brief OP

- - - Updated - - -

Those people you'd take just because of their ilvl. OP is not referring to this type of PuG tho. ToT normal PuGs generally don't have BiS gear, ya know...

Nor does the OP but he is already falling into the situation because of a certain trinket that is extremely overpowered but has an unfortunate passive stat on it.

I'd rate his gemming and reforging with what he has as exceptional. If I was leading a pug he would be invited on this alone because I can bet he atleast has a concept of how to play his class is he is gearing it properly.

[Eranthe]

Join a guild.

basically this

[nightfalls]

I'm not even offering "gearing advice" I'm offering "perception advice" and like all advice it can be completely ignored.

I guarantee that OP's stam gems are not his problem; rather, his attitude is.

How's that for "perception advice"

[anaxie]

Ouch I spoke too soon. pal you really should turn two of those gems into haste/hit gems :X 216 mastery reforged into hit why?

<your cloak>

[klaps_05]

unfortunately with the last 2 expansions, if you fall behind and don't put in effort early you will most likely be left behind.

you can try using this - http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/eu?fa...ec=retribution

Scroll to a guild that you think is acceptable for you, seeing how you don't have any previous experience(at least on this paladin) you can aim at a guild that is currently around 6 heroic kills and take it from there. I am saying 6 heroic kills, but you can also apply for a guild that is 7-8+/13, but know that it will take a while until you get lucky/accepted since those guilds will want a little better geared people as gearing is a bit tedious atm.

Overall, your STRONGEST side will be how you present yourself in the application and the interview. If you show motivation and reliability you shouldn't have much trouble getting into a guild.

If it was 2-3 months ago, I would say join a casual 12/12 guild so you gear up/get experience and can make the jump into heroic, but unfortunately there isn't much left of 5.3

[anaxie]

Also unfortunatly the legendary quest is extremely important and not catch up friendly especially with the secrets / titan stones part. Any serious progression raiding guild will view you as a hinderance unless you have an extensive raiding background at or above theirs.

HOWEVER for full clear normal guilds / progressing ones that really shouldn't matter. Then again I never understood the high requirements the bottom tier guilds place an intro requirements. They are the entry tier for new players into the raiding ladder. Where else are they expected to go.

I personally blame insane gear inflation especially between 5 mans and the very first raid zone alone. Feel that an item squish could go a long way towards solving this issue but due to everyones fear of change this will never happen. 1 Million dps incoming!

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I think a problem a lot of people run into with this is they aim for what they want out the gate. You have to be willing to accept that if you have no back up or prove to your skill and ability that you might have to start small. After all no one wants to go to a doctor that hasn't been to medical school and hasn't ever treated a patient before. You can easily find mid-tier raiding guilds that are running normal's to get yourself a base. Most guilds at that level at this point in the game are usually looking for replacements and people QQ out or try to move on to more progressed guilds. Once you get your hands on some kills you can move up. Just don't try to do it to fast or you will start to get the reputation of a hopper. I know it is a difficult balancing act but unfortunately the current state of the game is based completely around what someone things you can do, what you can prove you can do, and not so much around what you can really do. Be sure to run logs, even on LFR too. Then get your simmed DPS for your gear and ilevel. Present all these things at once. Do not expect people to be able to do it for you. They will be likely lazy and more willing to keep searching then to bother. Friends are a big way to do this too. More likely to take somone on another persons merit then random trade chat BS.

But I do totally agree that there is a lot of problems with getting into somethings when the key to open the door is lock inside the room behind the lock.

[alturic]

That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm currently on Kazzak EU Horde, which is one of the biggest servers this side of the atlantic, as you could see from my armory. I got higher itemlevel now than you had when you came back, without doing any normal raids, I state the same facts as you do, I got between 4 and 13 kills on every LFR boss.

I think the next pug I'll attempt to join, I'll offer 500G for the guild bank for every wipe they can prove comes from me not knowing the fight, either through attacking the wrong target, dying to something easily avoidable, of causing someone elses death by bad play. just good old fashioned bribing.

I actually like that idea. Sadly, the problem is still the fact that you may be wasting valuable time that could have been spent better by taking someone with experience.