Wasting too many KM procs...

[papajohn4]

I play with 2H and I should use my Killing Machine procs on Obliterate..now I don't know if I am unlucky or not fast enough, but the moment I will press the frost strike to dumb runic power, milliseconds before the killing Machine proc and I use it on Frost Strike...this gets frustrated...like someone is joking on me

does it happens to you too?and how can you fix this?is a "trick" or something..an addon/macro that prevent wasting KM procs on FS?

[Kraeth]

You should pretty much just ignore KM procs. It really doesn't make any difference.

[Caribald]

get a swing timer addon

[papajohn4]

You should pretty much just ignore KM procs. It really doesn't make any difference.

But Obliterate with KM does more than double damage than the Frost Strike I cannot ignore it, I wanna fix it

get a swing timer addon

Can you point to one?I can't think any of it now..is it possible to track this with Weak Auras?

[Aceshigh]

But Obliterate with KM does more than double damage than the Frost Strike I cannot ignore it, I wanna fix it



Can you point to one?I can't think any of it now..is it possible to track this with Weak Auras?

I know Quartz (it's a cast bar addon) has a swing timer for white swings. Might be useful for you but the other thing you gotta learn to live with is that KM procs will get wasted, it's going to happen so don't stress every time you miss the odd one. Don't sit on GCDs and shit to get the KM off with Oblit either, that's probably going to end up in a net loss.

[Olrox]

But Obliterate with KM does more than double damage than the Frost Strike I cannot ignore it, I wanna fix it



Can you point to one?I can't think any of it now..is it possible to track this with Weak Auras?

His point is that there's (I'm fairly certain) math out there to show that you're probably at the haste point where holding KM to wait for obliterate instead of just using it as it comes up is a loss because you're probably over-writing KM procs.

The only big mistake you can make with KM is if you use it on Frost Strike when you have runes for Obliterate but as a general rule it's probably a loss to waste what will add up to be several KM procs or proc windows by saving one for runes - by this I mean over the course of a 3-5 minute boss encounter that is.... y'know, say you hold on KM 5-10 times.

I unfortunately can't prove this point but there've been a few threads on this subject in recent months and I'm fairly certain someone with clout (Mendenbarr, Magdelena..one of them) proved that in general, it's a waste to hold the procs.

EDIT

Ok this was easier to find than I'd anticipated...it was in the EJ thread.

Killing Machine procs


Killing Machine procs on melee hits, and is used up by turning your next obliterate or frost strike into a crit. Killing machine is also the interesting proc, because you want to use it up as soon as possible to avoid overriding a proc, but you can't stop meleeing, and you also want to wait to use it on an obliterate instead of a frost strike. In general, it's more important to use up the proc to avoid missing out on the next one, but given the choice between using it on an obliterate or a frost strike, choose obliterate every time.

Source

[Deleted]

I used to share your opinion but Euliat mathed it out a while ago.

Basically you should just be doing your rotation/priorities(whatever you call it) as it is. Use FS when you're close to capping RP and obliterate at other times. Waiting for your runes to come off cooldown to use an Obliterate on KM rather than an available FS is generally going to be a DPS loss because, as a DK performing your runic dump procs your level75 talent, which = more resources. The duration of the encounter limits the amount of resources you can gain through performing actions so while, in the small window of 5-10seconds you'll do more damage by waiting a couple of seconds for an Obliterate to be available over the course of a fight you'll do more damage by forgetting about it and just using what's available to you (regardless of whether KM has procced).

Hopefully that makes sense, been at work for 15hours now and I'm starting to get a bit trippy.

EDIT - What the above poster said -.-

[Kraeth]

Yes, that was my point exactly

[Magdalena]

Euliat did indeed prove that waiting for Killing Machine procs is not worth it 99% of the time. The remaining 1% implies conditions so rare that it's usually not worth even looking for them.
I know how annoying it is to feel as if you've failed a test with KM by "wasting" a proc on Frost Strike instead of Obliterate as 2h, so look at it another way: There is no test. The proc might as well not be there. Just proceed with your normal rotation and hope for the best.

Here is Euliat's math thread if you're interested, by the way: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...you-feel-lucky

[papajohn4]

Thanks a lot for the answers Well that change things now I was angry when I accidentally pushed frost strike on KM proc but now I understand that this is how it should be!

[Magdalena]

Thanks a lot for the answers Well that change things now I was angry when I accidentally pushed frost strike on KM proc but now I understand that this is how it should be!

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the frustration. I wish it did matter for 2h, and I wish that Mendenbarr's theory of waiting for KM-Obliterates being a gain had been correct.
Hopefully this is something they address in 6.0.

[Wrien]

Obliterate-based 2h frost ruined 2h frost.

Have been DW frost since they ruined 2h frost (MOP patch in Cataclysm).

I can't be the only wone who hates this new physical damage (Obliterate) based 2h frost. Frost should be about frost damage. *Frost Strike!*

[Kronik85]

Obliterate-based 2h frost ruined 2h frost.

Have been DW frost since they ruined 2h frost (MOP patch in Cataclysm).

I can't be the only wone who hates this new physical damage (Obliterate) based 2h frost. Frost should be about frost damage. *Frost Strike!*

You say that in every thread you have ever posted in completely ignoring the fact that you cast Frost Strike far more often than Obliterate as 2H Frost. 172 Frost Strikes vs 104 Obliterates if you want some numbers as of my last Sim.

There is no Obliterate based 2H Frost spec, it simply doesn't exist at this point in time. IF KM worked like it was meant to work you might almost have half a point. As things stand though...no.

[papajohn4]

Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the frustration. I wish it did matter for 2h, and I wish that Mendenbarr's theory of waiting for KM-Obliterates being a gain had been correct.
Hopefully this is something they address in 6.0.

they can make it so that KM proc gives you a free Obliterate and critical..and they can balance the PPM of KM so that it won't be too overpower..also they can make it that if you use 2H you can spend KM on Obliterate only

Obliterate-based 2h frost ruined 2h frost.

Have been DW frost since they ruined 2h frost (MOP patch in Cataclysm).

I can't be the only wone who hates this new physical damage (Obliterate) based 2h frost. Frost should be about frost damage. *Frost Strike!*

Well to be honest, I didn't played DK in Cata, but 2H is very convenience because with the same weapon you can also play Blood(my main spec). It is very difficult to keep upgrade both a 2-Hand and also dual wield...although I would really like to try dual wield frost..I think it does better aoe damage with Howling Blast?

[Deleted]

although I would really like to try dual wield frost..I think it does better aoe damage with Howling Blast?

Yes it does. That's exactly the niche DW Frost is supposed to be in. Far higher passive cleave for low HP adds.

[valliant13]

Obliterate-based 2h frost ruined 2h frost.

Have been DW frost since they ruined 2h frost (MOP patch in Cataclysm).

I can't be the only wone who hates this new physical damage (Obliterate) based 2h frost. Frost should be about frost damage. *Frost Strike!*

I just miss dw and 2H being a cosmetic thing. I prefer dw as frost, but refuse to play dw frost with the mop style gameplay. I would love to go back to wotlk rune mechanics as well. Would really fix a lot of the clunkiness Frost can experience at times.

Actually I'd rather just go back to the wotlk playstyle of frost period....I know other classes need overhauls like warlocks got this expansion and others desperately need it(looking at you rogues/mages and pretty much every other vanilla class) but they have completely fucked up death knights imho with these rune mechanics.

[damescool]

I use to be of the wait for a split second for your swing timer, but now when I play frost(next to never as unholy is usually better for almost every fight) I ignore the swing timer with the massive amounts of haste I have now, for the most part

[Tojara]

Just go with regular priority, the only thing that's wrong is hitting KM frost strike when you have the runes available for obliterate.

Can't see how 2H frost is any worse than dual wield frost from a game play perspective. I know some people don't like obliterate focused 2H frost (which when you look at it still produces more frost strikes), but saying dual wield is anymore enjoyable when you're trying to eliminate as many obliterates as possible in favor of spamming a single rune ability in howling blast is merely just an opinion.

To me both of them aren't fun and in my opinion dual wield has a much more frustrating/annoying rune emphasis.