[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[Deleted]

Seeing the updated Org raid i see they have placed more alliance ships in the harbour and the skyfire is there as well but they also have a shit ton of forsaken and belf ships instead of those orc placeholder ships

I guess maybe varian isnt being half hearted about this but i still stick by what i say the Horde WILL outnumber the alliance in this raid and in that position it will be hard for varian to dictate terms.

Because we can't let the alliance feel stronger, even when they invade the enemy's capital, yes?

[Deleted]

How can you be the bully when you get beaten and humoured all the time is beyond me.

Yes, that's what I was saying is the problem. The writers don't ever get the Alliance to flex their establishment muscles. They are somehow portrayed as the underdogs in their own homeland, against a ragtag force of outcasts.

[Gliff]

Moral of the story; an expansion where the Alliance supposedly turn the tables on the Horde, results in an unchanged Orgrimmar, and a crater in the place of Theramore.

Isn't that satisfying?

This made me laugh. Well done.

[Talen]

All those zones the Alliance keep complaining about not getting back? You lost them to balance the questing and leveling zones

Which, if true, was, is and always will be a totally ludicrous excuse. Its an aspect that has zero impact on gameplay which is where balance is important. What it affects is the stories that the players are involved with via questing.

Plus, even if it was valid - and it isn't - Blizzard has mechanisms which can bypass it.

The Worgen story sucked and they lost their homeland? Goblins lost their homeland and their damn faction leader.

And got a city and two zones of their own to compensate. Plus, for call that you see him, Glenn is LESS active and has LESS presence than Gallywix.

5.3 was awful for EVERYONE, and the fact that they realized they had to do SOMETHING for it during the development for 5.2 just explains how awful the lore has gotten. I've spent most of MoP working for a tyrannical bonehead who had several years of character development derailed to turn him into a raid boss, only to hear endlessly about how amazing the Horde story is and how Blizzard hates the Alliance.

Whether you liked 5.3 or not, it can't be denied that the Alliance essentially got shoved into a Horde story. The point being that the Alliance didn't get a story, development or progression.

While the Horde story in 5.3 is flawed, the thing is that it actually is there and exists. The Alliance story does not, nor has it since Cata. If you get down to bare bones, the Alliance has had little in game progression since LK launched.

EJL

[Aquamonkey]

Which, if true, was, is and always will be a totally ludicrous excuse. Its an aspect that has zero impact on gameplay which is where balance is important. What it affects is the stories that the players are involved with via questing.

So Alliance having more questing zones pre-Cata means they had more story. Seems to be you like the imbalance when the Alliance got more story over losing stuff so things become balanced.

[Sandrox]

So Alliance having more questing zones pre-Cata means they had more story. Seems to be you like the imbalance when the Alliance got more story over losing stuff so things become balanced.

More zones doesnt equal more story or quests. Barrens alone had more quests in it than Darkshore, Westfall, Redridge, and Loch Modan combined. Horde questing was fine until the later levels when it got more scarce than the Alliance ones.

[Talen]

So Alliance having more questing zones pre-Cata means they had more story. Seems to be you like the imbalance when the Alliance got more story over losing stuff so things become balanced.

No...they had more story because Blizzard messed up the Horde story in Vanilla. That needed to be fixed. Zone count, however, wasn't part of the issue. It is very possible to have 100 quests in one zone and 20 in another. More to the point, the number of quests isn't an issue either but the number and quality of the storylines involved.

Zone count does nothing to affect the quality or quantity of questing. It doesn't affect gameplay one bit. Who is in a zone determines the targets you can quest against...but not how, or anything else of importance.

It was and remains a ludicrous benchmark affecting neither quest quality, quest quantity or gameplay.

EJL

[MrSerious]

lore which makes no sense is not good lore. To let the horde kill a bunch of nightelves and humans then for the alliance to just walk away after helping the horde clean up their mess not only makes no sense but is stupid.

maybe the panda's were on to something... "why do we fight?" the alliance certainly don't know.

[delus]

Seeing the updated Org raid i see they have placed more alliance ships in the harbour and the skyfire is there as well but they also have a shit ton of forsaken and belf ships instead of those orc placeholder ships

I guess maybe varian isnt being half hearted about this but i still stick by what i say the Horde WILL outnumber the alliance in this raid and in that position it will be hard for varian to dictate terms.

Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion and eventually destroy them but he chooses not to.

[Aquamonkey]

Actually, Varian is pretty much able to crush the Horde then and there according to Wrathion but he chooses not to.

Complete bullshit. Wrathion said it would have been drawn out. A year just to take Thunder Bluff with massive casualties and "the rest of the Horde would have caved eventually." Wrathion was even backing Garrosh until he turned half the Horde against himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7wVt733LM

[luccadeo]

I've been trying to decide if this story line or the Deathwing story line has been worse so far. I just can't make up my mind.

[muuska]

At least Garrosh will be gone, that's all I'm happy about. Story wise it was interesting to see how the situation developed through this expansion - would've been interesting to see how story goes when Alliance loses men in the fight to ''help'' horde getting rid of their warchief, sadly just walking away after everything feels weird.

[Deleted]

Complete bullshit. Wrathion said it would have been drawn out. A year just to take Thunder Bluff with massive casualties and "the rest of the Horde would have caved eventually." Wrathion was even backing Garrosh until he turned half the Horde against himself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7wVt733LM

For a dragon puppy Wrathion has much military knowledge...

[Verdugo]

For a dragon puppy Wrathion has much military knowledge...

He doesnt know about all those spawning pools under Stormwind.

[Omgarsh]

Most of which were made neutral, rather than favouring the Alliance.

Except Arthas and Tirion, those characters felt about as neutral to me (a Horde player since December 2004) as Thrall felt to you Alliance players in Cataclysm. Even then, it wasn't like Arthas had a deep connection to the main Horde races (Orcs/Trolls/Tauren) compared to the main Alliance races (Humans/Dwarves/Gnomes).

Pretty much every expansion, and hell, even classic WOW, up until Cataclysm was Horde doing quests/instances to help out Alliance characters, even if they were "neutral" in WOW. We were thrown a bone with the Escape from Durnholde COT instance in TBC, only for Alliance players to bitch that they had to help out Thrall.

Honestly I remember most of the people who played Alliance in classic WOW whining that the Horde weren't treated as evil in the story. Like the core element of it was seriously just "they aren't Alliance so they must be evil," completely missing any details on either faction. 9 years of that kind of stupid crap is why it's hard to really care when Alliance complain about Horde bias. Well, that and knowing how biased all the original 1-60 content was in favor of Alliance.

[Escapes]

Thanks GC


10 char

[Aquamonkey]

For a dragon puppy Wrathion has much military knowledge...

Better than Tyrande and her thousands of years of experience...

[Deleted]

He doesnt know about all those spawning pools under Stormwind.

Judging by what they have under Orgrimmar, I wont be surprised IF there is a whole new city under Stormwind city.

- - - Updated - - -

Better than Tyrande and her thousands of years of experience...

She is chief priestess and not a general. Also, she is dumb as hell, yea.
Also, thousands of years of WHAT experience? The night elves pretty much did NOTHING during theese years.

[Aquamonkey]

She is chief priestess and not a general. Also, she is dumb as hell, yea.
Also, thousands of years of WHAT experience? The night elves pretty much did NOTHING during theese years.

Fighting in the War of the Ancients... being leader of the Sentinel army... defending Kalimdor against threats like the demons left over from the WotA... fighting in the 3rd War...

[mannenabo]

jeez ppl get so mad about fiction its like a religion to them somehow, also not only alliance is fighting garrosh its horde fighting him also you guys are just our sidekicks in this

religion is fiction