Yes, the way they.... Summoned the Legion in the first place, then needed everyones help to stop it.
They attacked the Orcs and Alliance building up preparing for conflict.
Refused help against the Legion despite their military being crushed by then almost instantly until the only smart one wakes up.
AS I have said before. If the orcs (not neccisarrily the entire horde) continue to antagonize and pick at allaince holdings and forces then the Alliance needs to take a firm stance and end it.
This is the third time the alliance and the horde have warred. Know what happened the third time Rome and Carthage went to war? Rome finally had enough of Carthage's shit and stomped them into the fossil record. Every square inch of territory was seized, every every major noble family was disenfranchised, the capital was completely demolished, its entire population was either put to the sword or sold into slavery, and salt was sown into its ground so nothing would grow there for a hundred years.
That may seem very harsh, but you have to remember that was a very different time, and Carthage had made Rome bleed far more than they had during the first and second Punic war. At the battle of Cannae, Hannibal pulled off a brilliant strategic maneuver that completely encircled the roman army and the fight became a slaughter. At the end of the day over 50,000 roman soldiers lay dead. Its considered to possibly be the deadliest one day battle in human history. And during the first Punic war, when a roman navy rescued a large roman army from north Africa, a storm swept in and destroyed the entire fleet. 90,000 men went down with the ships.
Sometimes to make an enemy stay down you have to put them in the ground.
Now of course I don't see the Alliance ever fully going as far as the Romans did, or even really wanting to do that sort of damage. But I do think if the alliance ever won a definitive victory over the orcs, it would be in everyone's best interest to banish them back to Draenor and seal the dark portal behind them. Nagrand is still very habitable, and considering it was orcs who fucked up outlands in the first place, I think its fitting they be made to sleep in the bed they made for themselves.
Well at least there were some Night Elves that saw what was going on, rebeled and tried to stop the Legion and didn't go on a genocidical rampage and then going to alien worlds killing everything that moves. Sadly, can't say the same about Orcs, right.
Or are we going to insist they were "mind-controlled" or something.
Oh sorry, didn't realise it was a tricky one for you:
Me: The Alliance need more warhawks.
You: hurpderpnazis
Would've been necessary had you have managed to string together a coherent argument.
Oh lordy, you're making my head spin!
There is no formal Godwin 'law' or 'fallacy'; some guy called Godwin mused how nazis always come up in online discussions- the interent collectively nodded and said 'IKR?'. I know this tricky, but a decent rule of thumb is that if it's not written in latin, it's not a formal fallacy of logic or argument. Still don't get it? Let me rephrase; 'Oh nazis again, creative!'.
Your neckbearded devotion to Thralls idyllic and ultimately doomed dream of shamanic brotherhoow marks you as someone who came in at the WCIII stage and bought into that nonsense. The old horde never died, kid, and as long as it's made up of races struggling to redeem themselves against a past of corruption, it is bound to continue relapsing.
The argument that the Alliance can't be shown any victory in game because it would imbalance the game and lore is completely ridiculous. We can wipe Alliance cities off the map, but we can't touch anything the Horde does because it would imbalance lore? Nonsense. And phasing makes it nonsense from a game perspective.
I don't want them to redesign entire zones, but some of the outposts in Ashenvale had Alliance controlled versions in game already. Why can't you phase an area post 90 back to show the Alliance reclamation of some territory?
I'm not going to argue opinions and details of history, that's derailing this thread, but isn't that kind of the point?Ironic, considering the German Declaration o surrender happened before.
Some argue it was believed Japan wouldn't have quit based on Germany. They had their honor and pride and Germany wasn't the sole controller of them all. The bombs unquestionably ensured the fighting from anyone was going to end. Others would argue it was an unnecessary show of force. My friend's a history major and he's gone so far as to say it was also a show of strength warning Russia what the US was capable of. But it's still safe to say it definitely put a halt to things. Was it right or wrong? Definitely arguable, but we see nothing that's developed in that line for the Alliance.
They never do anything that's questionable for a perceived greater good.
"This is a site populated by militant [game] buffs: sad, pathetic little bastards living in their parents' basement downloading [datamined info] and what they think is inside information about [features] and [games] they claim to despise yet can't stop discussing."
If you hate WoW, stop talking about WoW?
Tyrande was a fucking moron back in WCIII
Orcs are chopping our lumber? Attack them
Orcs are defending themselves? Bring in Cenarius
Cenarius is dead and there's Humans and Orcs attacking the Undead that are our enemy? They're all savages, an alliance with them would be stupid. ATTACK!
Burning Legion is invading? Better free my crazy brother-in-law so he can absorb a demonic artifact, do a bit of good and proceed to attempt to rip apart Northrend with another Demonic Artifact
Face it, Tyrande has always been an idiot. The only difference is that she would argue her dumb logic against Malfurion's points, and somehow sees wisdom in what Varian says. If they wanted to stay true to WCIII Tyrande they would have her suggest "Dumb Idea #5,739" have it get shot down by Varian, and then have her do it anyway. Her being dumb wasn't because they butchered her character, the only thing they butchered was her voice, Tyrande was just born dumb.
You mean I am a neckbeard because I enjoy thr fact that the world is not Black and white, and that the Horde has it's own Noble image and is not just a bunch of bad guys for the alliance to shit on?
That I enjoyed a faction composed not of Warlords or Warmasters but of a Banded group of outcasts joined together for survival and eventual union? Please, spare me your stupid notions of "The Old Horde". Thats what they are, the OLD Horde, one that Doomhammer tried to change, but failed. And Thrall succeeded in throwing off the chains of Demons and warlock hidden castes.
- - - Updated - - -
Translation: My Opinion has been proven to be stupid, therefore I will cite that anyone disliking current WoW to be a Hater.
I know! They're like Azeroth's hot and cold abusive spouse.
They need to, but they're not.
Do you know what happened the third time England and France went to war? Me neither; luckily, it's utterly irrelevant.
First of all, the Horde consists of more than Orcs; as many Azerothian natives welcome the Orcs as do those who reject them. Funnily enough it's mainly those that the Alliance has trampled, neglected, and wronged. Seems like not everyone on Azeroth likes the way the Alliance does business.
Second of all, though it might have been the Orcs who despoiled Draenor after being corrupted by the burning legion (like many other races before them); let's not forget who turned the Legion's attention to Draenor by hiding there. That's like crashing at a friends house and neglecting to mention the Mafia has a hit out on you. Dick move, Velen, dick move.
And I'll just say this to counter you're entire fucking point.
How the hell are you going to force the Horde to dismantle itself? No matter how much of a "Victory" it is with garrosh, what stops the Horde from simply going "No" And caused untold masses of bloodshed as the alliance tries to put down a horde now United in the hatred of the Alliance more than ever and falling even deeper into a pit of "maybe Garrosh was right to want to totally take over everything"
So now you have not only the Orcs, but the Trolls and tauren who you have royally pissed off, for no reason, just because the Alliance wants to remove the Orcs, All Orcs.
Last edited by Faroth; 2013-07-26 at 02:57 PM.
No, I think you're a neckbeard because of those little tufty patches of hair on your neck.
The Horde not being black and white also means it's not white. It is, in part, the ideal of shamic brotherhood and renewal. It is also undeniably the repeated failure to live up to that. It's the uniting cause of the diverse and discarded peoples of Azeroth to fught side by side for a place in a world that doesn't want them. It is their tendency toward monstrosity when doing so.
The horde is all about high hopes and grand disappointments; it is a tragic faction.
There are some chaps in the Cleft of shadow who'd like to have a word, but first let us welcome the Blackrock clan back into the Horde! Perhaps we can get the folks from Undercity, Silvermoon, and the Echo isles to put on a fel-shadow-unholy performance on for them?
This internal contradiction is sorely lacking in the Alliance, and has a detrimental impact on the portrayal thereof. Lazy writing pegs them as the rational, moral, 'straight man' counterpoint to the Horde's histrionic melodrama. Just as the Horde is a faction of Monsters aspiring towards nobility- the Alliance should be a faction of noble races, struggling with an inner monstrosity. For all their shining light, civilised sensibilities, and moral superiority- they are at their essence the encfranchised elite; the winners of history who inhabit peace and prosperity very much at the expense of others, and who have little sympathy or charity for the unfortunate many beyond reaches of the system they sit proudly atop.
But we couldn't possibly have nuanced story telling; it is after all just a game.ds house and neglecting to mention the Mafia has a hit out on you. Dick move, Velen, dick move.[/QUOTE]
Quite Standard things really.
1. Is Warhammer Fantasy due to the outstanding WHFRPG and it's ability really make a gritty and grim fantasy where your character can get mauled and mangled.
2. Is Eberron, Everybody loves Eberron.
3. Is Lord of the Rings, such a rich setting with great amounts of detail.
4. Is Spelljammer, because Space ships powered by magic with DnD races is hilarious fun, but sadly rarely played.
All offer different things, while also being able to be used widely in PnP RPGS, Books, Video games and so forth. Warcraft fits among them too. At best I could call it since Warcraft 3 a more lighthearted Eberron.
#boycottchina
Sadly, mostly alliance players like "human smash" and played through MoP without stopping to even notice that Anduin is receiving the same treatment as Thrall had in Cataclysm. With the exception that Alliance hated Thrall, even if he did all for the greater good, while Horde is loving the way Anduin is going.