Did GC really just say Cata Heroics were hard?

[Stuffs]

Except when you're already having trouble beating the DPS check, running an extra 3 or 4 seconds doesn't seem like that great an idea.

The only DPS check was sub 25% or whatever it was when he enrages. You could also shiv/tranq shot/soothe it off.

We also have movement spells, such as Sprint.

[Deleted]

If you don't know what you are talking about, do not open a thread like this one OP... get your shit together.

While op is bad and has no clue, he is still right, Cata was not hard

[fengosa]

I'm not making this up. If you go to Wowwiki's Ozruk page you'll find this right now:

If you don't remember how complex it is then you didn't range DPS, heal, and/or PUG very much.

- - - Updated - - -


Except when you're already having trouble beating the DPS check, running an extra 3 or 4 seconds doesn't seem like that great an idea.

Other fun facts about Ozruk. Prot warriors couldn't use shield slam on him because it would dispel his reflect and holy paladins had to melee him to get a bleed to break paralysis since they didn't have a ranged dot.

[jakeic]

That's exactly the mentality that costs subs. Millions of people took more than three pulls to learn and decided to find better uses for their time. You can enjoy your hardcore game in your little corner of the internet with your handful of hardcore friends, but I don't think Blizzard's investors are going to be very happy about that.

i don't think you're correctly remembering what happened or correctly interpreting what is happening..

[HeedmySpeed]

Man, this thread is giving me nostalgia of the Cata Heroics... all those awesome mechanics.. even the adds had some hard ones!

Like the add pack leading to the optional boss in Throne of the Tides where the goblin pull had to be delicate.

Shit was ace for a new players like me just starting out. It felt like a raid environment and we had to strategize a bit. It was like a puzzle.
Man.... good times!

[Ronduwil]

Other fun facts about Ozruk. Prot warriors couldn't use shield slam on him because it would dispel his reflect and holy paladins had to melee him to get a bleed to break paralysis since they didn't have a ranged dot.

Apparently you and I were hallucinating through early Cataclysm because Ozruk was apparently a walk in the park to half the posters here. I must have dreamed the 75% of Stonecore runs which ended in tanks rage quitting or healers being unjustly kicked. All those tanks who zoned into Stonecore only to immediately /leave must have been tripping right along with us.

[fengosa]

Oh seriously do stop your excuses.
He shouts some shit, tank moves, he shouts some other shit, all melee moves

It was NOT hard and a few days later shitty wow addons catched up and notified you what the fuck was happening (MAJOR failure on blizz side)

This whole thread is a semantic circle jerk. What's considered hard subjectively or objectively are two entirely different things. You may not consider them difficult but if you had to run 10 dungeons with strangers from any xpac and time was a factor in your choice you wouldn't pick Cata heroics.

[Ronduwil]

i don't think you're correctly remembering what happened or correctly interpreting what is happening..

If I was wrong then nerfs wouldn't have happened and GC wouldn't be fessing up to the fact that dungeons were too difficult in Cataclysm. Remember that he's the one with the access to all those "why I'm leaving" exit surveys.

[Belmorn]

I did tbc / wotlk / cata / mop heroics within the first 3 days of release.
I would list cata as being the hardest of those.
TBC probably was just as hard, but you have to keep in mind people never done heroics before so they didnt know what to expect.
Now in Cata a lot of people did TBC heroics and they still where pretty hard, that means they where basicly harder.

Now dont read this as an : I think they where HARD. I actually enjoyed cata the first week more than anything. We could clear them no problem but it was challenging with green gear. I think you are misinterpreting the meaning of a heroic, its meant to be a stepping stone into raiding , not something close to on par with raiding diffilcuty with the minimum required gear level.

[Deleted]

That's exactly the mentality that costs subs. Millions of people took more than three pulls to learn and decided to find better uses for their time. You can enjoy your hardcore game in your little corner of the internet with your handful of hardcore friends, but I don't think Blizzard's investors are going to be very happy about that.

While I still bought each expansion, I am not subbing since after Ulduar. I might have been a bit hostile, and I apologize for that, but I HAVE voted with my wallet. The point is, when the game got released and went *big* that was the foundation, and from that foundation the game went away and away and wotlk and mop....

Guess what, pre Wotlk the game had 8.5?M subscribers, which is equal to now, but unless now it was on an upswing. You just can't undo any damage that has been done, maybe WoW would have failed if it had kept the way it pursued, no one will know. But for those that enjoyed that time it got killed.

Also I didn't stop playing *hardcore* (ye those 20 hours a week are hc), I stopped playing a game that evolved to a different game (and i re-subbed often enough to test if it ever got decent again).


It's easy to pull the *lol hardcore* card. But I have been actually a passionate fan of the game and would have been a casual (as in barely playing but still paying customer) supporter of the game till now, IF the game wouldn't have shifted to a POS. I wouldn't have minded to be 2-3 tiers behind others, because I would have taken the few hours a week to try and catch up.

I also wouldn't feel entitled to see everything in the game, because I can not buckle the time.

I'm still curious how many people saw naxx 2.0, because that was a major letdown and it was actually easier to do KT at 80 than trying KT at 70 in the original version. Go figure.

In my opinion in the long term it is better to strive for a goal than get it served on a platter. Content isn't gone if you are 10 level higher its just easier, currently you just get the illusion of doing something instead

You know the actual found part about the illusionists that think they see the game, is they do not experience what it was. You could have seen Naxx, BT, Sunwell, DS, whatever years later and it would not matter. It is somewhat nerfed by gear, but that is what is happening anyway.

[Dreknar20]

Remember that he's the one with the access to all those "why I'm leaving" exit surveys.

he also said the majority of subs who leave dont even reach max level content............

[Stuffs]

If I was wrong then nerfs wouldn't have happened and GC wouldn't be fessing up to the fact that dungeons were too difficult in Cataclysm. Remember that he's the one with the access to all those "why I'm leaving" exit surveys.

I'm going to make something very clear.
You should not try to understand what blizzard does.

A prime example was the trinket change, from ICD to PPM.

To the best of my knowledge, they do shit for the sake of it half the time.

[Deleted]

This whole thread is a semantic circle jerk. What's considered hard subjectively or objectively are two entirely different things. You may not consider them difficult but if you had to run 10 dungeons with strangers from any xpac and time was a factor in your choice you wouldn't pick Cata heroics.

Ok I am not being an elitist at all what so ever, but if you buy a ticket to a marathon (repeatedly) do you expect to be first every single time, just by buying the ticket?

Ye me too!

[Deja Thoris]

Ok I am not being an elitist at all what so ever, but if you buy a ticket to a marathon (repeatedly) do you expect to be first every single time, just by buying the ticket?

Ye me too!

I've seen some dumb analogies in my time but wtf?

[FLANOFETT]

Cata Heroics were pretty tough you had to run a bunch of 85 regular dungeons just to get enough blue gear to run them in the beginning. That dumb dragon with the tornadoes was the worst, may a pug failed there.

[Huntermyth]

nothing beats the old good Shattered Halls heroic - ever, but grim Batol heroic at start of cata was really a very close one.

so yes, they were hard.

[Deleted]

That's exactly the mentality that costs subs. Millions of people took more than three pulls to learn and decided to find better uses for their time. You can enjoy your hardcore game in your little corner of the internet with your handful of hardcore friends, but I don't think Blizzard's investors are going to be very happy about that.

The fun part is, the game had as many subs during TBC as it has now, but was on an up-rise. I do not say it was perfect (it was far from it) but I also suggested opinions what would have made the game over time.

See I'm not playing anymore, because in my eyes the game has gone to shit and the majority of the guys I have played with (that's closer to 99 than 95%) are not playing anymore.

So the game shifted from something I would pay 15€/$ a month to 0, and the damage has been so severe that I will not pay for it ever again. And I am explaining why I think it went that way.

[jakeic]

If I was wrong then nerfs wouldn't have happened and GC wouldn't be fessing up to the fact that dungeons were too difficult in Cataclysm. Remember that he's the one with the access to all those "why I'm leaving" exit surveys.

they nerf everything over time. i'm not saying it hasn't happened, but i can't remember a time where they made an instance, an encounter, or a raid more difficult after it was released on purpose (they have fixed bugs and game breaking abilities).

they're going about business all wrong if they're making a game for the people who quit.

[Ronduwil]

I'm going to make something very clear.
You should not try to understand what blizzard does.

I wasn't talking about Blizzard. I was talking about GC. It's not in our nature to needlessly admit that we were wrong about something. Why would GC make the call to make heroics hard (and I assume it was his call because I remember that apologetic blog post that he wrote shortly before the nerfs hit) and then fess up to making a mistake unless he had some indication that it was, in fact, a mistake. If people were really leaving in droves because content was too easy then he would be apologizing for nerfing the content. Why would he admit that Cataclysm heroics were too hard if he had data indicating that they were too easy??? That just doesn't make any sense.

I know it's easy to dump all the game's woes on GC and attribute any decisions that don't align with your view of how WoW should be to stupidity on his part, but easy is not the same as correct. GC is not infallible, but he didn't get to his position by being an idiot either. Contrary to commonly stated beliefs on this forum, he is not out to ruin the game and spit in the faces of all hardcore players. He is, like many of us are, performing a difficult job in the hopes that he can contribute something to society while keeping his family fed. Deliberately sabotaging his bread and butter isn't going to accomplish either of those. If he's saying that the game was too hard, he has the game's best interests in mind. He's not maniacally cackling and twirling his mustache as he contemplates his next insidious plot to make hardcore raiders cry.

[Deleted]

I've seen some dumb analogies in my time but wtf?

Well okay wasn't the best, but the essence still remains.

Maybe imagine a broadcaster, you have contract with a broadcaster and don't have the time to watch it all the time. But you expect everyone to wait for you to catch up on the story?