wow subs at 7.7m

[zephid]

well considering half of wow doesn't have subs, but accounts, is it that different?

The difference between subs and accounts are huge considering the fact that you have to pay for a subscription. If WoW was free to play most, probably all, of those who have stopped playing would still have an account since it doesn't cost them anything to keep it.

That's why it means nothing to say that you have X number of accounts since you have no way of knowing how many of those are active. When it comes to subs it's a different thing since you have to pay to have an active subscription, something you won't do if you don't plan on playing.

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Before they had the money just sitting there to pay people but now they got to pay them out of what they make each month.

That is a bit of a difference.

But they also have $3 billion in cash on hand right now.

"The transactions announced today will allow us to take advantage of attractive financing markets while still retaining more than $3 billion cash on hand to preserve financial stability."

[Deletedaccount1]

Another thing I'd like to add that a lot of people here don't seem to really pay attention to is the fact that not everyone who quits switches to another MMO. In fact I think free games like Mobas are where a lot of people no longer playing go to now.

Not everyone who quits goes to another MMO.

[valcrist]

Honestly I think it's design choices lately. I loved mop at launch but the patches have been very lackluster, going in the wrong directions and bland and looking at 5.4 I really see nothing to pull me back in just class nerfs another raid more dailies. They need to do what they did with diablo 3, they need to flush out the idiots making the decision and bring in some new blood

[zephid]

Now you're just guessing.

Not more than everyone else in this thread.

[Jtbrig7390]

The difference between subs and accounts are huge considering the fact that you have to pay for a subscription. If WoW was free to play most, probably all, of those who have stopped playing would still have an account since it doesn't cost them anything to keep it.

That's why it means nothing to say that you have X number of accounts since you have no way of know how many of those are active. When it comes to subs it's a different thing since you have to pay to have an subscription active, something you won't do if you don't plan on playing.

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But they also have $3 billion in cash on hand right now.

You can only assume they have that amount based on current subs but can you prove that is how much they got on hand right now? Because the way I see it if they had 3 billion in cash on hand right now they would not be in debt come September they would break even if not be a little above after using what they got on hand.

also

his purchase is financed with $1.2 billion of cash that was on hand

therefor its a good chance they got less then 3 billion on hand.

[phenix]

Now you're just guessing.

No he's not. Activison-Blizz isnt dead. Have you ever read the financial statement for ATVI? Im gonna guess no.

In 2012 they generated 4.6$ billion revenue and generated 1$ billion cash on hand (thats free cash). So given new IP + new expac for both activision and blizz, why would you think they wouldnt be able to generate a decent amount of revenue even if WoW were to close down. (which it wont but it will still decline imho)

[valcrist]

And also people are to busy wasting time on Facebook and shitware f2p and shovel ware apps these days

[Bahska]

Just like all other games they lose people over time, doesn't mean it will die. Hell how many people does Swtor have now? An they just released a xpac so yeah...Blizzard see's the decline and adds things to compensate, I don't think we would be seeing things like flex raids and virtual realms/CRZ if the game wasn't on a decline.
An saying things like WoW is 9 years old is apologizing is childish, its actually a fact that when a game (any game) gets older people either lose interest or wont buy it to begin with.

[zephid]

You can only assume they have that amount based on current subs but can you prove that is how much they got on hand right now? Because the way I see it if they had 3 billion in cash on hand right now they would not be in debt come September they would break even if not be a little above after using what they got on hand.

also therefor its a good chance they got less then 3 billion on hand.

From the press release.

The transactions announced today will allow us to take advantage of attractive financing markets while still retaining more than $3 billion cash on hand to preserve financial stability.

[Deficineiron]

The difference between subs and accounts are huge considering the fact that you have to pay for a subscription. If WoW was free to play most, probably all, of those who have stopped playing would still have an account since it doesn't cost them anything to keep it.

That's why it means nothing to say that you have X number of accounts since you have no way of know how many of those are active. When it comes to subs it's a different thing since you have to pay to have an subscription active, something you won't do if you don't plan on playing.

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But they also have $3 billion in cash on hand right now.

"The transactions announced today will allow us to take advantage of attractive financing markets while still retaining more than $3 billion cash on hand to preserve financial stability."

i am assuming wushu is on the same pay/account type plan wow china subs are. If this is the case, then in fact it should be actively compared to wow since if folks want to use the ~4m china subs as part of bragging about how big wow is, they need to compare it to other chinese mmo's on TIME-PAY plans like netease uses for wow, as well as westward fantasy, and others.

the language barrier on getting timely data, or any at all, on the mmo world there is pretty substantial. there was a poster who played on netease servers and had family in hong kong and shared a lot of info at one point, maybe he will pop in, since he was a source of chinese mmo info in general.

[Jtbrig7390]

And also people are to busy wasting time on Facebook and shitware f2p and shovel ware apps these days

Well f2p games are pumping out just as good if not better content then wow and some of these f2p games have things people have been asking for in wow for quite sometime so ya why play a game you enjoy over one you don't the though of it is just crazy isn't it.

[Deleted]

Someone asked for updated graph: http://i.imgur.com/WSjr73X.png

[Deleted]

7.7million people is probably more people than most of you can even imagine. And is an insane number of subscriptions to a pay-to-play game. If this trend continues (which it wont) it will still be a long time before the game drops below sustainability. What will probably happen is Blizzard is going to start folding low pop servers together with the virtual realms system to prevent "Warhammer online syndrome", probably reducing further subscription hemorrhaging.

Its my belief that a lot of the sub losses are people who feel them game is dying not because it is, but because their server itself is dying. For example, my move from Bronze dragonflight to Outland gave me a completely differant persepctive on how the game was faring. Its suprising how engaging the game can become on a high pop server after spending so much time on a lower pop one.

[Bahska]

Honestly I think it's design choices lately. I loved mop at launch but the patches have been very lackluster, going in the wrong directions and bland and looking at 5.4 I really see nothing to pull me back in just class nerfs another raid more dailies. They need to do what they did with diablo 3, they need to flush out the idiots making the decision and bring in some new blood

There are no daily's in 5.4 just to clarify. Just like 5.3. There is a new island with things to do but no daily's.

[But I Hate You All]

Someone asked for updated graph: http://i.imgur.com/WSjr73X.png

here is one for q4 2010 to today


http://tinypic.com/r/2myvxig/5

[Deficineiron]

Someone asked for updated graph: http://i.imgur.com/WSjr73X.png

nice chart.

note that the vivendi ceo (then atvi chairman too) said in reference to q1 2009 that the game had hit 12m subs. I do take that as an insider statement and thus valid. I also think it is extremely probable q1 2009 was the western sub peak, based on subsequent statements about the change to netease and chinese subs.

[Jtbrig7390]

7.7million people is probably more people than most of you can even imagine. And is an insane number of subscriptions to a pay-to-play game. If this trend continues (which it wont)

First off you can't prove it won't

Second blizzard has done stated that subs will keep dropping.

Finally Mop has almost been out almost 1 year and started with 10.2 million subs now its down to 7.7 million that is a 36% drop in subs since the release of the MOP if this keeps up then wow would have lost 50% of its subs in one xpac's life time.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Couldn't resist.

But yes, right now, all other mmos and those trying to compete with wow, just don't manage to. The only way it may happen is if wow drops is subs below 4m, and another mmo manages to pull something to drag a load of mmo fans back into it.. but... what are the odds the mmorpg market is just dying itself, and WOW is and always will be the king of mmorpgs for that reason?

No other MMO has managed to pull off the balance between Solo, PvE, and PvP that WoW has obtained. The single biggest threat to the game has been ToR, and it went nuclear over the lack of a real endgame.

[zephid]

i am assuming wushu is on the same pay/account type plan wow china subs are. If this is the case, then in fact it should be actively compared to wow since if folks want to use the ~4m china subs as part of bragging about how big wow is, they need to compare it to other chinese mmo's on TIME-PAY plans like netease uses for wow, as well as westward fantasy, and others.

I'm not sure they are. I know that outside of china they use the same system as swtor. It's free to play unless you want access to certain things, then you have to pay a subscription. Which means that it's impossible for us to know how big the percentage of paying accounts are.

[But I Hate You All]

No other MMO has managed to pull off the balance between Solo, PvE, and PvP that WoW has obtained. The single biggest threat to the game has been ToR, and it went nuclear over the lack of a real endgame.

The single biggest threat to the game is WOW