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I think the problem is having 3 unique and interesting specs that share a common look and feel while being functionally different enough to be interesting.
Death Knight is a good example they feel similar enough to be the same class yet different enough to be interesting.
Clockwork seems interesting, also this feels like what I think of when I hear "Tinker".
Chemical doesn't feel very interesting nor does it feel very "tinkery", it feels like a tacked on healing spec just to have a healing spec.
Gunnery looks like a hunter spec. It also doesn't feel very "tinkery".
The whole reason for having it ranged I would think is to get more use from ranged weapons used solely by hunters. This means you probably want all 3 specs to be based on agility. Also dual wield pistols sounds super cool, but that means a new weapon to be used solely by the tinker which is the very same problem we are trying to address for the hunter. Dual wield 2H rifles and bows just seems silly.
Honestly, it has some good ideas but no more so than any other class ideas I have heard. And it still needs 3 specs that share a common vision but are different enough to be interesting.
It's important to note that the Death Knight specs were pulled from multiple undead heroes and units. Frost comes from the Lich. Blood comes from the Dreadlord's Vampiric aura, and Unholy was based on the DK hero and the Necromancer.
You can thank Blizzard's awesome design team for making it all appear seamless. They did an amazing job on the Monk class as well.
You can't base the Tinkers' viability as a full hybrid based on my weak effort. The Tinker can tank based on robotics, it can heal based on medical technology, and it can do DPS via advanced weaponry. Simple, and it doesn't overlap with any existing classes. Like the DK, Blizzard can merge multiple WC3 units and heroes together. In this case you have the Tinker hero, the Alchemist hero, Seige tank, Mortar Team, and the gyro copter. The archetype is extremely broad, so Blizzard has plenty to work with.Honestly, it has some good ideas but no more so than any other class ideas I have heard. And it still needs 3 specs that share a common vision but are different enough to be interesting.
Actually I applaud your effort, but I think the problem is that it is so broad. I am sure they could come up with something to make it work, but then I again I think that holds true for any of the numerous other hero classes people have thought up. I would hope that if they did do a tinker they would focus on the machinist aspect of it as I think it best defines the class, but while they do that they still have to make 3 different specs that are interesting.
Hey, I'm with Tinker but I felt that way long before I even read mmo-champion forum, just because someone made a thread about it doesn't mean you should group everyone who likes as followers. There's been threads on Tinkers long before that and people shouldn't resort to name calling just because others want something different than you do.
You want something broad. That gives you flexibility when it comes to class creation. I'm sure that however they do it, it will have a consistent theme, with some very interesting abilities.
I also disagree that it holds true for other class concepts are equal. Other class concepts either horrendously overlap with existing classes, or have no connection to the Warcraft universe. Tinkers are simply the best remaining option in terms of possible WoW classes.
Easy to say. Face it....the only reason against a Dragon themed class is that you don't want one. Your tinker class has overlaps. Or should we do away with the lightning generators and flame throwers and lasers?
Tech based is not the only theme left unexplored or unused in this game.
So is the idea of spec swapping. And really - you can't think of possible stories/lore whereby a Dragonsworn style character may have access to mutliple schools?Then comes the other thing where lore sort of doesn't make sense. How would one person become the Dragonsworn of multiple dragonflights? That's sort of impossible.
I can. He just does because he is Dragonsworn.
Really reaching. Unique abilities? Seriously? Really? You say a class that hasn't been developed yet doesn't have any unique abilities and so it can't be implemented? WoW....this idea of a Dragon themed class has thrown you off your game. No unit or hero from WC3? Well....that'd be OK because we don't have to fill your own personal assumption that new classes must fill that criteria. Its useful to have as it creates back story and ties to previous games but hardly essential. The closeness to Mage specs? So we should just rule out Warlocks and other casters ever again?There's also a lack of unique abilities, lack of history of any type of Dragonsworn unit or hero from WC3, the closeness of the specs to Mage specs, among other problems.
Seriously - you are nitpicking without even trying to see how you could design a Dragon themed class.
The you haven't done the Twilight Highlands Wedding quests. And so what iof you haven't seen one? Why does everything have to come down to what was in previous games? Does Blizzard not have the option of adding something new?There's no basis for a Bard in the Warcraft universe. I've never seen a Bard unit, or witnessed a Bard fighting anything in any Warcraft game.
Last I checked, Warlocks had a Demon theme and used Shadow and Fire magic.That Blood Mage concept sounds just like Warlocks who also manipulate life energies.
None of which makes the tinker inevitable.Tech not only has the WC3 hero and units backing it, but it has numerous NPCs and bosses, it has a faction leader using it, its has two races on opposite factions utilizing it, and its unlike other class theme in the game.
So...you are going to state that there is no chance, not even the smallest possibility, that Blizzard might even consider adding a different class other than Tinkers? That there is no choice, and they have no option but to follow your rules and add the tinker. They won't even have the option of adding in WC3 hero unit such as the Warden or Sea Witch, or exploring new possibilities such as the Bard?Again, only if you ignore the evidence.
Blizzard, the creators of the game, the people who say what goes in and what does not, have no choice other than to add in Tinkers and all other options are of the table because you can't think of a way in which they can be added.
EJL
Last edited by Talen; 2013-07-29 at 05:29 AM.
Yes yes, entirely possible we'll be fighting the Legion again. Maybe playable Demon Hunters. Personally I'd prefer the next expansion didn't have a new class though - we just got a new one.
Long term? Nothing. Game is old. By now most people who were going to play it have, and a lot have played it long enough to burn themselves out or just get sick of it. No game lasts forever.
Because it's the only area of the map not coloured in yet. So people assume it has to be an expansion.
Truth is, we've already been almost everywhere in Warcraft lore, and we've already fought almost everyone in Warcraft lore. Bottom of the barrel scraping unless they come up with something new. Which is something nobody on the forums could predict, of course.
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Even if we do fight the Legion again, that doesn't mean going back to Outland. The portals there are closed just like Azeroth's. In fact they have been since TFT.
Also, Outland doesn't need a revamp. Maybe some of the quests could be streamlined.
It fails on one key point. It lacks support.
The Anti-DH coalition as a whole is in the minority. And within itself it's split into multiple smaller camps.
There is no way in the current era of sub freefall that Blizz would skip the majority-desired class in favor of a niche in the minority.
FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)
id love to actually see a "pvp-centric x-pan" done right.
Neither is there any concrete data to say that Tinkers are the next class. A new class has to have been in WC3, and so on and so on. Please, stop rejecting other ideas with arguments that work just as well on your ideas. Your tinker idea sounds fun, yes, but it's not holy. And all you have is a vague theory that it might someday become a class. Just like Demon Hunter, Dragonsworn, and whatever other class.
Overlaps with classes is different than overlaps with professions. Just about every class overlaps with a profession in some way.
Its the only unexplored theme left from WC3, and WC3 is the birthplace of all WoW classes.Tech based is not the only theme left unexplored or unused in this game.
Well just to end this here; Only Druids can be the Dragonsworn of Ysera, so no healing spec there. Blue Dragonsworn tend to be powerful Mages. So that takes care of that. Orcs can't be Red Dragonsworn because Red dragons hate Orcs. Finally, Dragonsworn serve their individual Dragonflight over factions. So if Varian tells a Dragonsworn to join him in Pandaria, the Dragonsworn is likely to just walk away unless his Dragonflight orders him to go. So yeah, lorewise, that's quite a mess.So is the idea of spec swapping. And really - you can't think of possible stories/lore whereby a Dragonsworn style character may have access to mutliple schools?
I can. He just does because he is Dragonsworn.
Really reaching. Unique abilities? Seriously? Really? You say a class that hasn't been developed yet doesn't have any unique abilities and so it can't be implemented? WoW....this idea of a Dragon themed class has thrown you off your game. No unit or hero from WC3? Well....that'd be OK because we don't have to fill your own personal assumption that new classes must fill that criteria. Its useful to have as it creates back story and ties to previous games but hardly essential. The closeness to Mage specs? So we should just rule out Warlocks and other casters ever again?
Well every class has filled that WC3 criteria, and so far this entire Dragonsworn concept just sounds like a Mage. Sorry, it just does.
Again, because all classes came from WC3.The you haven't done the Twilight Highlands Wedding quests. And so what iof you haven't seen one? Why does everything have to come down to what was in previous games? Does Blizzard not have the option of adding something new?
They have Life Drain, the entire first tier of their talent tree, Health Stones, Siphon Life, and numerous other healing abilities.Last I checked, Warlocks had a Demon theme and used Shadow and Fire magic.
I have yet to hear a better alternative. Mage and Warlock rehashes or outlandish class concepts with little connection to the Warcraft universe just don't cut it.None of which makes the tinker inevitable.
Out of those options? No.So...you are going to state that there is no chance, not even the smallest possibility, that Blizzard might even consider adding a different class other than Tinkers? That there is no choice, and they have no option but to follow your rules and add the tinker. They won't even have the option of adding in WC3 hero unit such as the Warden or Sea Witch, or exploring new possibilities such as the Bard?
Again, at this juncture in WoW, the Tinker class simply makes the most sense.
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All the evidence points in that direction friend.
Demon Hunters don't work because their abilities are in the game and absorbed by other classes.
Dragonsworn is just a fancy version of Mages that have ties to Dragons.
Neither concept is as likely as the Tinker concept.
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Some proof would be appreciated.
Last edited by Teriz; 2013-07-29 at 07:45 AM.
Already took a poll. Demon hunter torched every class except death knight, but still beat it. You remember it. I know how you like to conveniently forget things, but mmoc is just a small sample. If trends continue, which they would because when people think wc3, they pretty much think demon hunter, its easily the most wanted class. Not fucking tinker lol
Blizzard is going to have to work some extreme magic if they add the Demon Hunter. Warlock has been siphoning a lot of abilities or hinted workings of a demon hunter forever now, let alone other skills from Warcraft 3. The single most apparent one is Metamorphosis, which is a Warlock ability (But a Warcraft 3 Demon Hunter ability). It'd feel weird on how they could change it to fit.