Let's talk realistic: THE NEXT EXPANSION (subs loss, predictions, what fans like)

[hordak]

I dont care what theme they make either Azshara or Burning legion are fine. I would like to see more instanced 5man content in the game, which you can do with rl friends on skype. If they turned old vanilla/TBC/Wrath raids into 5mans on a 3days or a week cooldown it would be great, I dont care for excuse. Early cataclysm was great in that aspect. I would resub in an instance.

[Teriz]

A few spells being thematically similar is no reason to scrap a class because you could potentially revamp another class to be the same. If you're advocating the inclusion of Tinkers in spite of engineering (which is something I agree with), you can obviously see that similarities don't mean redundancy, and you ought to be able to see that a spec built thematically and mechanically around time-control is different from a class that has a couple time control spells in a kit that is otherwise built around completely different themes. Shamans work with the elements to essentially gain their permission to use earth magic; the Black Dragonflight has an affinity with and the ability to shape earth.

Well there's a difference between Tinkers vs Engineering, and Dragonsworn vs. Mages/Shaman/Druids. Engineering is a profession, not a class, and classes don't clash with professions, while classes DO clash with other classes.

Lorewise, there's probably a big difference between Earth Shaman and the Black Dragonflight. However, gameplay-wise, what would the difference be? Shaman can shape earth, project earth, and use earth to heal and protect themselves. In that context, what would a Black Dragonflight spec do differently beyond pissing off Shaman players who have been begging for an Earth-based tanking spec for years? Shaman have been shown to have the capability to do almost everything possible with Earth magic. A spec using the same element immediately limits future Shaman development, even a possible tanking spec for the class that arguably deserves it more.

Afterall, you can't have 2 tanking specs from 2 different classes that both use earth magic to tank. That would be redundant.

Dragonsworn aren't Mages or Shamans like Priests aren't Paladins, they're mortals granted powers by the flights to aid the dragons with the maintenance of their respective domain. After the events of Cataclysm, Blizzard's said they want to shift the responsibility of protecting the ley-lines, the time-ways, the dream etc. to mortal races, which gives Dragonsworn room and reason to exist.
Sure Blizzard could approach Dragonsworn by giving existing classes with overlap extra specs and explaining it in the lore as existing heroes donning the mantle of responsibility (which I think would be really lacklustre), or they could not have them as playable at all and introduce them as NPC factions like the recent Timewalkers, but there's definitely room for them if they wanted to add them in spite of having some similar powers to existing classes.

The source of their abilities in pretty irrelevant. I'm talking about pure gameplay mechanics here. Sure a Blue Dragonsworn gets his powers from a Dragon, but they're still casting frost magic. We have multiple classes with frost magic right now in the game. What are they going to do differently than Death Knights, Mages, and Shaman? Are they going to have a Dragon breath down frost breath on targets? Why not just give that ability to Mages?

[Talen]

Well that's kind of the point; They aren't class abilities. Are we really going to compare an item that you have to craft, can only use once, is excessively weak at max level, and has an absurd CD to a proposed class ability that will have none of those limitations?

Yes. Because you want to tie all this into the theme of tech. The problem here is that the tech-theme you want is open to every single player in the game through the profession.

Is that a major obstacle? No.

Bronze is time based. Mages have potent time spells already. Im sure many mages want to see that expanded. Red uses fire magic. We have 3 fire based spell casters already. So that's 4 of the 5 Dragonflights, and according to lore, the Black Dragonflights don't take Dragonsworn. Such a class would cause way too much class overlap.

This translates as "I don't want a Dragon based class". Many classes share thematically similar spells. Mages and shamans for example with Fireball/Lava Burst. Overlap exist - and will also do so for a Tinker class. But the existence of an overlap doesn't negate the theme.

And what about Runemasters. Theres a class with no WC3 representative (at least, none I recall) but it was one of the classes considered for inclusion in LK. What does that mean for your theory that only WC3 hero classes are likely? I also don't recall any Monks in WC3.

A tinker class isn't inevitable.

EJL

[Sukhoi]

Yes. Because you want to tie all this into the theme of tech. The problem here is that the tech-theme you want is open to every single player in the game through the profession.

Is that a major obstacle? No.



This translates as "I don't want a Dragon based class". Many classes share thematically similar spells. Mages and shamans for example with Fireball/Lava Burst. Overlap exist - and will also do so for a Tinker class. But the existence of an overlap doesn't negate the theme.

And what about Runemasters. Theres a class with no WC3 representative (at least, none I recall) but it was one of the classes considered for inclusion in LK. What does that mean for your theory that only WC3 hero classes are likely? I also don't recall any Monks in WC3.

A tinker class isn't inevitable.

EJL

The necromancer they considered wasnt a wc3 class either. Teriz youre an idiot to think tinkers are inevitable.

[Eazy]

I'd personally like to see the next expac taking the fight TO the demons, Kil'jaeden being the final boss. At like 1% to go, Sargeras rears his head and screams "Enough!" and kills off KJ and shatters our raid group to pieces. The entire crusade of horde/alliance armies gets crushed in an ingame cinematic.

The next expac has us holding our ground in Azeroth as we lose zone by zone, until the final battles take place at Stormwind and Orgrimmar, alliance and horde respectively. Our victory there would put an end to the combined might of the Naga by sea and the demons by land. Having the story unfold this way forces us all to taste defeat and get zealous for defending our withering homeland.

Well, we weren't defeated yet, it could be a nice experience I think.

OP= lets start talking realistic, starts making things up

Uhm... No.

The necromancer they considered wasnt a wc3 class either. Teriz youre an idiot to think tinkers are inevitable.

I agree with that Tinkers won't be a new class, though please, there's no need to flame others.

[Dormie]

lol. next expansion. Im guessing...World of Warcraft: Super Happy Pillow Time.

Death has been removed, gear grows on the trees, everyone has 12 CCs and can hit for over 3 million. You have the option to clear every raid with 9 other NPCs so that you can have instant queues.

I'm sure it's gonna be a hit.

[Armourboy]

Just an opinion, but I think they pretty much are going to be forced to do a Burning Legion expansion or at least have some seriously heavy hitters as end bosses in this next expac if they even hope to stabilize the game. Maybe its just me, but if someone walked up to me and said " Have you seen the new WoW expansion? The South Seas!" I would be like, eh erm no.

Note: Troll Kings and Old Gods are generally not what are considered heavy hitters ( Think of Arthas, Kil'Jaeden and Illidan as examples)

[Teriz]

Yes. Because you want to tie all this into the theme of tech. The problem here is that the tech-theme you want is open to every single player in the game through the profession.

Is that a major obstacle? No.

It's not an obstacle because professions and classes serve different purposes in the game. And the tech theme isn't open to every player. Yeah, you can build some trinkets and mounts, but I can't tank or heal a raid using technology. I can't use robots and lasers to help top DPS meters.

Again, your argument is like saying we don't need healers because we have First Aid and Alchemy.

This translates as "I don't want a Dragon based class". Many classes share thematically similar spells. Mages and shamans for example with Fireball/Lava Burst. Overlap exist - and will also do so for a Tinker class. But the existence of an overlap doesn't negate the theme.

No, it translates into "I don't want a Dragon based class because it would be a redundant mess." Yeah, Shaman and Mages share thematically similar spells (though lava is different from fire), but their entire specs aren't similar. The Red Dragonflight is fire based. Mages and Warlocks have that covered via Fire and Destruction. The Blue Dragonflight is Frost based. Mages and Death Knights also have that covered. Black Dragonflight is Earth based. Shaman have that covered. Etc., etc.

The only argument you have in response is that their source is different. Who cares? Essentially, a Dragonsworn class is just a Mage with different source of lore. Mechanically, there's little to no way you could make it different enough from the existing classes, because so many other classes do exactly what this class would do.

I never thought I would see a class idea worse for the game than Demon Hunters, but the Dragonsworn idea just may take the top prize.

And what about Runemasters. Theres a class with no WC3 representative (at least, none I recall) but it was one of the classes considered for inclusion in LK.

LoL! you actually believe that story? You really believe that Blizzard had three classes on the table, 1 of which no one ever heard of before, the other having most of their ground covered by Warlocks, and the last one just happened to be the class that was not only a WC3 hero, but also had a heavy connection to one of the greatest Warcraft antagonist ever?

Yeah, tough decision.

What does that mean for your theory that only WC3 hero classes are likely? I also don't recall any Monks in WC3.

Monks are based off of the Pandaren Brewmaster WC3 hero. That's pretty obvious to everyone.

Considering that the last two expansion classes were both heavily based off of the WC3 classes with no abilities in WoW until their implementation, it makes complete sense. Even down to the armor that was available when they were implemented. After Vanilla, there just happened to be a hole in Plate, Leather, and Mail armors that just happened to perfectly fit the remaining WC3 heroes that weren't absorbed by the original 9 WoW classes. There just happened to be heroes left that fit perfectly into the class set up without overlapping with existing classes.

Coincidence? Not likely.

A tinker class isn't inevitable.

Only if you ignore all the evidence.

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The necromancer they considered wasnt a wc3 class either. Teriz youre an idiot to think tinkers are inevitable.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...romancer.shtml

[Fyersing]

If I remember, the Cataclysm destroyed their homeland. That's why they're all over the f**king place now.

Their homeland, Zandalar, was not destroyed. It was rocked to its core by tidal waves, and subsequently flooding, and is being slowly swallowed by the sea. Yet, even now hundreds or even thousands of trolls remain there under the leadership of King Rastakhan -- they, the trolls, simply recognize that eventually their island home will be completely engulfed by the sea and that seeking shelter elsewhere before that happens is the most prudent action.

Hence, Isle of Thunder. There is plenty to do in the South Seas.

[Razecog]

Only if you ignore all the evidence.

What evidence?

[Deathstroke]

Based one everything I can piece together, and the blunt clue from the Whispering Woods event (google it), I am calling 100% Emerald Dream. Will bookmark this thread for Blizzcon.

And that would make a bunch of Vanilla players very, very happy, including myself. It was a long time comin'.

EDIT: Pure speculation on my part, but I predict the end of the Dream expansion allowing the player to open a gate to the Legion homeworld of Argus. Of course this ends terribly with the Legion pouring through the 7 (6?) Emerald Dream portals into Azeroth, possibly with the help of an Old God.

[Sukhoi]

It's not an obstacle because professions and classes serve different purposes in the game. And the tech theme isn't open to every player. Yeah, you can build some trinkets and mounts, but I can't tank or heal a raid using technology. I can't use robots and lasers to help top DPS meters.

Again, your argument is like saying we don't need healers because we have First Aid and Alchemy.



No, it translates into "I don't want a Dragon based class because it would be a redundant mess." Yeah, Shaman and Mages share thematically similar spells (though lava is different from fire), but their entire specs aren't similar. The Red Dragonflight is fire based. Mages and Warlocks have that covered via Fire and Destruction. The Blue Dragonflight is Frost based. Mages and Death Knights also have that covered. Black Dragonflight is Earth based. Shaman have that covered. Etc., etc.

The only argument you have in response is that their source is different. Who cares? Essentially, a Dragonsworn class is just a Mage with different source of lore. Mechanically, there's little to no way you could make it different enough from the existing classes, because so many other classes do exactly what this class would do.

I never thought I would see a class idea worse for the game than Demon Hunters, but the Dragonsworn idea just may take the top prize.



LoL! you actually believe that story? You really believe that Blizzard had three classes on the table, 1 of which no one ever heard of before, the other having most of their ground covered by Warlocks, and the last one just happened to be the class that was not only a WC3 hero, but also had a heavy connection to one of the greatest Warcraft antagonist ever?

Yeah, tough decision.



Monks are based off of the Pandaren Brewmaster WC3 hero. That's pretty obvious to everyone.

Considering that the last two expansion classes were both heavily based off of the WC3 classes with no abilities in WoW until their implementation, it makes complete sense. Even down to the armor that was available when they were implemented. After Vanilla, there just happened to be a hole in Plate, Leather, and Mail armors that just happened to perfectly fit the remaining WC3 heroes that weren't absorbed by the original 9 WoW classes. There just happened to be heroes left that fit perfectly into the class set up without overlapping with existing classes.

Coincidence? Not likely.



Only if you ignore all the evidence.

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http://classic.battle.net/war3/undea...romancer.shtml

Remember when you said blizzard made classes out of heroes? Not units? Funny how you go against your own argument.

[Teriz]

What evidence?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-class-in-WoW

I would also like to add the Goblin influence on the Horde within the game's lore. We're seeing quite a few mechanical and tech based bosses popping up throughout the game. Siege master Blackfuse and the Iron Juggernaut in SoO are just the latest examples.

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Remember when you said blizzard made classes out of heroes? Not units? Funny how you go against your own argument.

WC3 heroes are units.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Warcraft_III_hero_units

Just saying.

[Therougetitan]

LoL! you actually believe that story? You really believe that Blizzard had three classes on the table, 1 of which no one ever heard of before, the other having most of their ground covered by Warlocks, and the last one just happened to be the class that was not only a WC3 hero, but also had a heavy connection to one of the greatest Warcraft antagonist ever?

Yeah, tough decision.

It's a true story, what's so hard to believe it? They wouldn't lie about it, there's no point.

It's not like they picked them over death knights, of course they were the clear answer with the theme of the expansion. It doesn't change they still consider many options however. Even for races mentioned in the WoW magazine they check all races before picking even if they are ludicrous, like Gronn. They know they aren't picking it, but they make sure to consider it even if it's only briefly considered.

Runemasters were also from the RPG books and were a core class. The books, were considered canonical at the time, it was a couple years later they were retconned.

[Arewn]

I wouldn't say that low. Most the sub losses are in Asia so i would go with it sitting at 5mil.

You can bring up that most of the sub losses are in Asia, but you can also bring up that most of the subs are in Asia. I don't know how the current numbers stand, but not long ago(couple years) Asia was the region with the highest numbers.
We also don't know what 'most' means (in 'most sub losses from Asia'), it could be 40% in Asia, 30% in Eu, 30% in NA for all we know.

[Superchief]

Let's talk realistic: The next gen MMOs Blizzard will have to compete with using yet another fluffy filler expansion similar to Cataclysm and MoP: XIV Realm Reborn-Final Fantasy, Wildstar, Elder Scrolls Online, Firefall. Final Fantasy releases next month (I doubt patch 5.4 will keep millions of players from trying XIV, with the reputation of MoP so far) so Blizzard is getting assaulted almost immediately and it doesn't relent until the last one (ESO) releases around November. If this was still Wotlk I wouldn't be talking, but lets face it Cata and MoP are terrible because someone is making terrible decisions in there, and for all we know they're still there. These aren't even close to a WoW clone, Blizzard is going to have to perform miracles to keep anyone from North America playing and they have to do it in the next few months or it's over. The casuals leave for better games in times of complete boredom like this, and everyone else notices the ghost towns and then they leave as well, it's a chain reaction.

It's easy to fantasize how a Burning Legion expansion might be fun, but realize who is working on it. It definitely won't be the same developers that made Wotlk and BC. It'll the be developers that made Cata and MoP. Hows that taste? Just being realistic. Do you guys really think these devs will release new character models? I don't, I think when they say it's an ongoing project they're talking about junk models they had to make for key lore characters like Thrall, Jaina, Garrosh, Sylvanas. Will we see those models implemented for players? Hell no. Even if they did that's still not enough fluff to keep a million players interested in the game. Watch em put character models on the Blizzard Store anyways, calling it now. Players will definitely assume the worst if they release an expansion called The South Seas because of the impression Pandaria has made already (Walt Disney? Children?).

I'm just not seeing anything that will redeem the game at this point. WoW's at half mast literally compared to Wotlk. Half of the players gone. It's the lowest it's been since BC and that's a pretty big deal considering that was five years ago. You can't just "wait it out" to see if it will recover from damage like this, you plan to wait five years to see if Blizzard will make the game better? Didn't think so. Burning Legion or Emerald Dream would be interesting and grab subscribers temporarily, but to compete with all the new WoW Killers they will have to revolutionize the game and add new features to the MMO genre within 4-5 months. They can't continue what they're doing by adding more fluff and filler, and letting these new generation MMOs suck the life out of them. Wildstar already admitted they are aiming their content towards jaded WoW players because that's the largest player base - the people that quit playing. XIV is so advanced it looks like a movie. ESO is filling the dungeons and dragons gap that WoW refuses to fulfill for players since Wotlk.

[Teriz]

The Vanilla model revamp will handle the sub losses.

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It's a true story, what's so hard to believe it? They wouldn't lie about it, there's no point.

Actually there is a point; So that people wouldn't figure out the expansion class selection system.

It's not a lie as much as a misdirection. Runemasters and Necros were incorporated into the DK class. However, The DK class was always planned to be a WoW class.

Just like Monks were, because there was always going to be a Pandaren expansion.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

World of Warcraft: Eye of the Storm

*Level Cap Raised to 95
**Talents are updated to be every 10 levels starting at 15.

*Guild Level Cap Raised to 30
**Guild-Airship unlocked at level 30

*New Continent - Great Sea
**Split into 4 Island Zones and 3 Underwater Zones.
**Players will not have to go Underwater if they do not want to.
**Zones include Broken Islands, Ruins of Zandalar, Tel'Abim, Kul'tiras, and Kezan.

*Blood Elf and Dwarf become Neutral Races
**New Zone, Lordaeron Northwoods ("High" Elf 13-20 zone)

*New Race - Naga
**Death Knight, Hunter, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior
**Faster swim speed & No breath bar racial
**Can shift into Highborne form (required for mounting). Shifts back to Naga when entering combat or touching water.

*Grand Master Riding & Aquatic Mounts
**Aquatic Mounts include on-water and underwater varients.
**On-Water has faster movement & no fatigue bar, Underwater has underwater breathing.
**On-Water can be used to travel between Northrend, Pandaria, EK, Kalimdor, and the Great Sea by traveling to the edge of their map.

*Dynamic Events
**Naga invasions along costal zones in Kalimdor, EK, Northrend, and Pandaria; and the islands of the Great Sea
**Defeating invasion forces will reward tokens that can be turned in for rep, jp, honor, or cosmetic rewards.
**Serve as a replacement for dailies in MoP

*Player Housing
**Based off the farm from MoP
**Can be located in any zone on Azeroth (sorry, no Outland).
**Phased, so you'll have to invite anyone you want to see your home to a group.
**Can contain items for your professions.

*New Player Models
**All vanilla races will be updated in 6.0, BC races will be updated in a later patch.

Yes Teriz, I didn't add a class. I doubt Blizz, even if they did well on the Monk, would want to risk going from one brand new class into another. They'll have a class-less expansion just to smooth any late-appearing issues with the Monk. They'd then add Demon Hunter in Expansion VI.

[Talen]

It's not an obstacle because professions and classes serve different purposes in the game.

Suppose we have Steam Warriors can tank with Mecha. Whats that new Mount called again?
Or we have Gunmen who uses rifles and grenades. Who else can do that?
Or we could give Tinkers some nifty class abilities...Teleport for example. Shrink rays. Remote control and forcefields. Sound familiar.

Everyone ingame has access to the tech theme.

Yeah, Shaman and Mages share thematically similar spells (though lava is different from fire)

See, this is what I call nitpciking. You are looking for and magnifying even slight differences in order to make the overlap appear less than it is.

The overlap exists. Different classes can have similar spells and stll have a different feel and theme. You don't even want to consider how a Dragonsworn class can be implemented in game purely because you don't want to give up the argument "Tinkers are inevitable".

They aren't. They may very well be the next class, but inevitable they ain't.

LoL! you actually believe that story? You really believe that Blizzard had three classes on the table,

I believe they had more and those were the three that eventually ended uo being fleshed out to one degree or another.

As it is, it was mentioned by Blizzard in an interview.

As it is, the supposition that they developed only one idea for the class and that it staretd with Dk and ended with Dk is - to put it mildly - ludicrous. They develop various ideas and concepts and take forward the one one that fits best and shows most potential.

Blizzard have confirmed they have worked on the Ogre and Naga as player races, for example. We don't see them in game.

At least - not yet.

Monks are based off of the Pandaren Brewmaster WC3 hero. That's pretty obvious to everyone.

They did what they did with DKs...they rolled several class concepts into one. Some of those concepts had no presence in WC3 and some did.

Coincidence? Not likely.

Gear choice and looting tables can be worked around as an issue should it be necessary. There aren't really any strong archetypes left for mail. Not even tinkers.

EJL

[Thunderi]

My prediction is Saregas and the Burning Legion.........