Alliance and Chris Metzen

[Talen]

Yes, Vereesa hates all BElves because of something Lor'themar did... Tell me again how she's not a bigot?

LT blamed the entire Alliance for something someone else who wasn't even a member did. And how many BElfs stood up to oppose his edict?

EJL

[checking facts]

LT blamed the entire Alliance for something someone else who wasn't even a member did. And how many BElfs stood up to oppose his edict?

EJL

garithos sent them all to execution, jaina made an alliance with the high/blood elves ancient enemies that banished them, the night elves, the alliance high command sent a dwarven spy to eversong woods and a bunch of sentinels to invade ghostlands, and the forsaken offered them friendship, protection, a place within one of the worlds largest factions and help to fight against the scourge and to reach kael'thas' promised land.

the blood elves leaving the alliance and joining the horde weren't just a matter of "garithos did it!".

also: any blood elf that opposed the government was throughly brainwashed by priests. we see that happening in silvermoon.

[josykay]

The order in which you described the quests that you say you did "in order" is not "in order" at all. The ones where you aid Garrosh were rep based daily quests introduced in 5.1 and you are, evidently, still completing them in 5.3 while you are also aiding Vol'jin and the trolls in their rebellion. That is not poor writing, it is you being behind on the story quests when patches are implemented.

We retake the Echo Isles for Vol'jin and his trolls during the 5.1 storyline nearly at the beginning during "Find Thrall!", and after doing so we are ordered by Garrosh, to find his bell. Later become witnesses, how Garrosh abuses the bloodelves as cannon fodder. When he finds his Bell, we are orderd to steal it back from Darnassus, causing the already abused elves, especially the Sunreavers even more trouble, so we have to aid them.
At the end of the 5.1 questline we are chosen again, after opposing Garrosh several times, to be witnesses, when he rings the bell, to unleash its power for securing his mad goals. After that we finaly oppose him again, during 5.3 by officially joining the revolutionaries.

[greeeed]

Yes, Vereesa hates all BElves because of something Lor'themar did... Tell me again how she's not a bigot?

But then I guess you'd agree that the BElves would be completely justified in hating the every single person in Alliance for what Garithos did?


Perhaps you missed the part where everything I described happened years before Theramore.

Lor'themar = BElves leader
you mean people don't hate Nazi for Hitler order in WW2?
I am sure they do

some reason why we are killing Nazgrim, good person or not, his leader = Garrosh

edit:
at other though, am I the only one who find it funny that Nazgrim have more characters development than most alliance leaders/characters?
(But true to be told, have better characters development than garrosh)
maybe because one sub writer made his character a lot better than Metzen garrosh characters
Metzen:.....ok lets kill him!
(joke since there is high chance he made him himself)

[Aquamonkey]

Lor'themar = BElves leader
you mean people don't hate Nazi for Hitler order in WW2?
I am sure they do

some reason why we are killing Nazgrim, good person or not, his leader = Garrosh

The leader makes a law, so all BElves are to blame? This is nothing like Hitler and the Nazi. The Nazi under Hitler waged war, performed genocide, and committed war-crimes. The BElf people did nothing. They had no part in Lor'themar exiling the HElves.

We are killing Nazgrim because he is fighting for Garrosh. Nazgrim isn't just chilling out in a lounge chair.

[checking facts]

Lor'themar = BElves leader
you mean people don't hate Nazi for Hitler order in WW2?
I am sure they do

there's a flaw in your analogy.

people hate the nazi for what they did, but do people hate all germans? of course not. the majority of the german population did nothing wrong.

[Holtzmann]

there's a flaw in your analogy.

people hate the nazi for what they did, but do people hate all germans? of course not. the majority of the german population did nothing wrong.

Over 60 years later, Germans still seem to get stereotypical flak for what happened in World War II. And during the war their popularity in the US wasn't exactly sparkly.

[Deleted]

Over 60 years later, Germans still seem to get stereotypical flak for what happened in World War II. And during the war their popularity in the US wasn't exactly sparkly.

It's about 68 years by now and the casual racism and hatred actually has gotten stronger from what I can tell. You can't be racist or political incorrect against anyone in the UK, unless they are German or to a lesser extent French. And since the younger Generations do not actually have any real knowledge or interaction with them they are even more reactionary and aggressive. It goes so far that even half Germans are labele "Hitler boys" and at times chased and beaten up for their heritage just because they are acceptable targets. And yes Germans is pretty much interchangable with Nazis for many people around here.

- - - Updated - - -

Going into the enemy's capital city and slaying their leader does not constitute a forfeiture on their part. That raid is never getting removed. The titles, achievements, mounts and transmog gear are all permanent. As for physical reminders, there have been monuments to the defeat of Arthas and Deathwing raised in the major cities, and I see no reason why they would discontinue the trend for Garrosh.

The world, as a whole, rarely changes to any significant degree after a raid is cleared. This isn't a faction favoritism problem, this is a problem with raids. We never saw the Naaru take the Eye over after we killed Kael'thas. We never saw the pumps taken down in Zangarmarsh. Naxxramas will float in its spot, spewing blight on everything underneath it, forever, regardless of how many times Kel'thuzad bites the big one. And so on, and so forth. That doesn't mean these things never happened in lore.

And if you want to take a chunk out of the hides of Horde players, I suggest you take up pvp. In pve your enemies are all npcs.

The problem is, it's not actually a win for the Alliance but for the Horde rebellion. The Alliance merely assists US in removing Garrosh and putting someone else in power. Their contribution is about on the level of what they were doing during 5.3. We have a mayor quest line, we have a lot of developements, loads of trops being moved around, actual warfare, Chen showing up and so on. They get a few agents and a robo kitten and watch us doing stuff, then we let them play with us for a bit because we've grown bored of doing stuff ourselves.

Even their supposed victory in Pandaria is a joke. Let's sum up Pandaria so far:

1. Theramore is nuked, loads and loads of elite Alliance soldiers, Naval forces and other stuff is wiped out. Huge Horde victory. Jaina chickens out at doing anything in retaliation.

2. Both sides arrive on Pandaria, there's some fights in Jade Forrest but effectively both sides give as good as they get. I'd actually argue that we do more Alliance killing than they do kill Horde. Their quest to kill Horde people ends after taking out initial base there with the insane warlock. We still get to kill the Alliance parachute warriors and take that one hill from them after their equivalent ended long ago.

3. Nothing much happens till 5.2 aside from Anduin actually taking a pro Horde stance towards the Celestials fawning over us like a fangirl. OH and he helped me gank Alliance players at the temple of Chi-ji.

4. 5.1 Is effectively a stalemate, neither side is going anywhere.

5. 5.2 Stalemate again, Lorthermar and Jaina talk things out and both go their ways.

6. 5.3 By now the Alliance has fallen by the side. Their contribution is playing our story line and controlling a robo kitten while we kick mayor ass with Chen who finally dropped the pretense of being neutral. Alliance gets to s*** off Vol'jin.

7. 5.4 Siege of Orgrimmar, the Horde rebells take the city making the Alliance take much of the losses after Voljin can't be bothered to actually live up to his side of the whole bargain, quite likely on purpose. Sylvanas talks about raising fallen Alliance and nobody gives much of a f***. Meanwhile Stormwind harbor and parts of the city are apparently destroyed despite the whole thing being Siege of Orgrimmar for no apparent reason.
At the end of the raid the Alliance is declared victor despite having lost about every single last battle over the last 3-4 years and just walks away to let us rebuild. We get to keep everything we've gotten, Orgrimmar is expanded, Stormwind trashed. If this ammounts to an Alliance victory, what exactly is an Alliance loss?

[Arcanist]

It's about 68 years by now and the casual racism and hatred actually has gotten stronger from what I can tell. You can't be racist or political incorrect against anyone in the UK, unless they are German or to a lesser extent French. And since the younger Generations do not actually have any real knowledge or interaction with them they are even more reactionary and aggressive. It goes so far that even half Germans are labele "Hitler boys" and at times chased and beaten up for their heritage just because they are acceptable targets. And yes Germans is pretty much interchangable with Nazis for many people around here.

- - - Updated - - -


The problem is, it's not actually a win for the Alliance but for the Horde rebellion. The Alliance merely assists US in removing Garrosh and putting someone else in power. Their contribution is about on the level of what they were doing during 5.3. We have a mayor quest line, we have a lot of developements, loads of trops being moved around, actual warfare, Chen showing up and so on. They get a few agents and a robo kitten and watch us doing stuff, then we let them play with us for a bit because we've grown bored of doing stuff ourselves.

Even their supposed victory in Pandaria is a joke. Let's sum up Pandaria so far:

1. Theramore is nuked, loads and loads of elite Alliance soldiers, Naval forces and other stuff is wiped out. Huge Horde victory. Jaina chickens out at doing anything in retaliation.

2. Both sides arrive on Pandaria, there's some fights in Jade Forrest but effectively both sides give as good as they get. I'd actually argue that we do more Alliance killing than they do kill Horde. Their quest to kill Horde people ends after taking out initial base there with the insane warlock. We still get to kill the Alliance parachute warriors and take that one hill from them after their equivalent ended long ago.

3. Nothing much happens till 5.2 aside from Anduin actually taking a pro Horde stance towards the Celestials fawning over us like a fangirl. OH and he helped me gank Alliance players at the temple of Chi-ji.

4. 5.1 Is effectively a stalemate, neither side is going anywhere.

5. 5.2 Stalemate again, Lorthermar and Jaina talk things out and both go their ways.

6. 5.3 By now the Alliance has fallen by the side. Their contribution is playing our story line and controlling a robo kitten while we kick mayor ass with Chen who finally dropped the pretense of being neutral. Alliance gets to s*** off Vol'jin.

7. 5.4 Siege of Orgrimmar, the Horde rebells take the city making the Alliance take much of the losses after Voljin can't be bothered to actually live up to his side of the whole bargain, quite likely on purpose. Sylvanas talks about raising fallen Alliance and nobody gives much of a f***. Meanwhile Stormwind harbor and parts of the city are apparently destroyed despite the whole thing being Siege of Orgrimmar for no apparent reason.
At the end of the raid the Alliance is declared victor despite having lost about every single last battle over the last 3-4 years and just walks away to let us rebuild. We get to keep everything we've gotten, Orgrimmar is expanded, Stormwind trashed. If this ammounts to an Alliance victory, what exactly is an Alliance loss?

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut Alliance gets to kill Garrosh, a Horde l-l-l-l-l-l-eader!!11!!!1!!!1!!! And "invade" Ogrimmar, TEH HORDE CAPITAL!!!11!!!!1!!!!

GEEZ ALLIANCE IS NEVAR HAPPY! /s

So glad I dropped this game along with its garbage story. Having lots more fun elsewhere.

[Alixie]

The fist pumping moment is saving Org, and giving it back to the horde.

[Samsara]

So Chris Metzen said

Don't worry, Alliance! I love ya dearly. There's some epic things yer about to do that will have you smiling and fist-pumping for years.

https://twitter.com/ChrisMetzen/stat...04612213886976

That was in March 2012

What do you guys think?

Load of smoke blown up our buts or is it coming ?

Edit:

problem is, you guys keep telling us the next patch will offer alliance "fist pumping" sessions but tomorrow never comes it seems
Dalaran didn't work for you? (Source)

So I guess Dalaran was that moment

The problem is that Dalaran doesnt really feel very Alliance-y because it involves Jaina only, It is a fist pumping moment but for Jaina, and I loved Dalaran, but I really was expecting something to do with other races, not just humans, I just hope they do not repeat the "A Little Patience" Fiasco of an scenario.

[Deleted]

-SNIP-

Well said.

Perhaps Blizzard 'forgot' to state outright that Alliance's 'triumph' is more of a Pyrrhic victory - all MoP battles 'won' in the manual/lore novels, but almost entire standing army of Alliance has been gradually reduced to as little as being composed entirely of player characters and acting generals.

[Trassk]

The fist pumping moment is saving Org, and giving it back to the horde.

And then placing gnomes on the battlements as we long kick them off, trying to hit the spikes below.

[checking facts]

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-ut Alliance gets to kill Garrosh, a Horde l-l-l-l-l-l-eader!!11!!!1!!!1!!! And "invade" Ogrimmar, TEH HORDE CAPITAL!!!11!!!!1!!!!

GEEZ ALLIANCE IS NEVAR HAPPY! /s

So glad I dropped this game along with its garbage story. Having lots more fun elsewhere.

if you're having so much fun elsewhere, why are you here, discussing your old game?

[Deleted]

if you're having so much fun elsewhere, why are you here, discussing your old game?

.......Because he/she CARED about this franchise and the factions it entailed at one time and witnessing further shift only rekindles worries and memories of dissapointment?

Even before WoW fell down to 7,5 million subs, there was already a [blizzard-confirmed] survey according to which there are MORE people who left WoW for good than there are operating subscriptions. That is one hell worth of a people who have WoW written in their past, some of whom still carry it in their heart.

If you are so quick to boot off those who still care, how do you expect people to start returning to the game they loved once?

[Trassk]

You people really are selfish brats.

Try to, for a moment, put yourself in chris metzens shoes. I know thats a really big stretch asking you lot to try and use empathy, but for those who might just manage it, give it a go.

Here you have the guy, who gave us world of warcraft. All your bitching and moaning about this game and your reason for feeling this overblown sense of faction pride, it comes from what he made, the story he made for us to be pessimistic about, to rage about, to enjoy and hate, he made it, not you.
All you people are, and those clinging to it, and biting the hand that feeds you.

Now, try and imagine it from the creators pov. If he answered your demands, you alliance players, and did what you asked, and made world of warcraft into world of alliance-craft, I'm certain you'd be overjoyed about that and laugh about it. But then, metzen would have to answer horde players who now feel betrayed by his writing and choices. And so, he would then have to give it back to the horde, and thus making you alliance into the same whining kids yet again.

As a creator of a product that has this kind of reaction from those invested in it, metzen has to try and balance the story as much as he can. And sometimes its hard to balance it, because the weight of the story makes it feel more focused in one side then the other. Wrath was focused a lot more on the alliance, but I bet you alliance didn't think of it like that, because you were content with it being that way.

Instead of throwing the same old shit about how you want the game to be about you and your needs, how about you suggest something that would balance the story. We had that kind of focus back in WC3 in its RTS format, as the alliance and horde had there own stories happening that were separate from each other.

My suggestion would be, make the next expansion, where alliance and horde have as little to do with each other as possible, and focus on there own story.

[checking facts]

.......Because he/she CARED about this franchise and the factions it entailed at one time and witnessing further shift only rekindles worries and memories of dissapointment?

Even before WoW fell down to 7,5 million subs, there was already a [blizzard-confirmed] survey according to which there are MORE people who left WoW for good than there are operating subscriptions. That is one hell worth of a people who have WoW written in their past, some of whom still carry it in their heart.

If you are so quick to boot off those who still care, how do you expect people to start returning to the game they loved once?

it's not about booting people that still care. it's about being sincere. people that quit the game and are playing something else and say they're having so much fun while still QQing about their old game are like a guy that got rejected by his crush. "it's good that she rejected me, I'm having way more fun as a single guy getting all the ladies. the bitch isn't even that good. she's ugly and her armpits smell!".

I'm usually a rather patient individual, but this sort of denial behavior is not something I have much patience for. if he was having so much more fun playing something else, he'd be playing something else, not complaining about his old game on the internet.

[Trassk]

it's not about booting people that still care. it's about being sincere. people that quit the game and are playing something else and say they're having so much fun while still QQing about their old game are like a guy that got rejected by his crush. "it's good that she rejected me, I'm having way more fun as a single guy getting all the ladies. the bitch isn't even that good. she's ugly and her armpits smell!".

I'm usually a rather patient individual, but this sort of denial behavior is not something I have much patience for. if he was having so much more fun playing something else, he'd be playing something else, not complaining about his old game on the internet.

Is it worth telling someone else how shit they think something is, at the expense of someone else being able to enjoy it?

[Deleted]

Instead of throwing the same old shit about how you want the game to be about you and your needs, how about you suggest something that would balance the story. We had that kind of focus back in WC3 in its RTS format, as the alliance and horde had there own stories happening that were separate from each other.

My suggestion would be, make the next expansion, where alliance and horde have as little to do with each other as possible, and focus on there own story.

I agree with your points, but an argument of the "you didn't make this product/you wouldn't be capable of making this product"-nature and appeals to empathy are a poor additions to the rational value of a counter argument one is trying to make. As an everday customer you are benefiting from untold range of industries while you are qualified only to perform in the select few you were preparing for - does this mean you CANNOT criticize/turn down the product you are not satisfied with? Obviously not.

[checking facts]

My suggestion would be, make the next expansion, where alliance and horde have as little to do with each other as possible, and focus on there own story.

personally, I'd love to see the whole concept of red vs blue evaporate. new faction: the united races of azeroth (color: purple). no more orcs trying to behead humans, no more humans trying to behead orcs. let's all try to behead something bigger like pitlords or something!

but alas, blizzard loves red vs blue