Would it upset you if LFR went away? Why or why not?

[Deleted]

Iwould be ok with LFR going away because raiding for me is social experience and not the anti-social solo player experience that it has degraded to with LFR.

[capstan]

My server's raiding scene died almost instantly after LFR was launched. I loved normal mode raids because they were not too hard or too easy and killing the last boss really felt like something. In LFR I feel that I am there just for the loot and not the experience.

[Magpai]

I dont play WoW anymore, but with Flex Raiding, id love to see LFR go away.

You'd rather see LFR go away entirely rather than jsut choose not to play it.

AND YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY WOW.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

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Iwould be ok with LFR going away because raiding for me is social experience and not the anti-social solo player experience that it has degraded to with LFR.

So why not just decline to do LFR?

[Glaziola]

Would it upset you if 'Remove LFR' threads went away? Why or why not?

So much win lmao.

[Venant]

LFR makes a joke of this game and the lore characters in the raids.

You can argue that the idea of 25 random dudes killing major lore characters makes a mockery of the lore. Maybe someday they will make a WW2 themed MMORPG, then you can get together with your guild and go farm heroic Hitler on Tuesday, he drops a legendary mustache!

[Osmeric]

go farm heroic Hitler on Tuesday, he drops a legendary mustache!

This made me cackle.

[Deleted]

LFR has had a negative effect on the game, but so did lfg, this game feels more like an xl spread sheet now clicking boxes, selecting a pull down, clicking a rep then jumping into an instance.

But LFR is not going away, I accept that, but LFR iis not raiding. Raiding is dangerous, overcoming a boss by following tactics defeating the foe and gaining a reward for doing so. This is not what happens in LFR! To many people are afk'ers, don't follow tactics because they can't be bothered to learn them or know it doesn't matter, they expect someone to heal them through it, or just don't care so they fail and die and wait for everyone else to finish it, that's if they don't just go afk in the first place. LFR should require the team and everyone doing acceptable dps for the ilvl requirement of the raid. 30-40kdps is not acceptable.

These people should be punished, if your are afk or have less than a 75% activity rate, then you get no loot for that boss and have to run that boss again for a loot chance. If you die to fire, or fail over and over again to traps, or hurt people with friendly fire type abilities then you get no loot. If you don't meet a certain threshold of dps, or healing (over heal would have to count in some way or count activity) you get no loot, this includes people that que as a healer then dps. It should tell you why you got no loot and a hint what to do to improve like visit proving grounds.

There are already lots of ways built into the game to track what your doing and how you are contributing and if you don't then it's simple you get no loot and have to do that boss again if you want it, or at least a penalty at the loot chance for minor things like standing in fire to much. This would stop people coming for a free ride, make them learn encounters and stop being freeloaders, that is not raiding is about but because of the anon people don't care. Surely you would enjoy it more if it was harder and everyone had to contribute, it' only the afk freeloaders that don't want a better experience.

Raiding is a team effort, everyone contributes, and over come a challenge then are rewarded, LFR doesn't provide that, it has no challenge, you can do what you want, afk and still be rewarded, and it's encouraging bad game play and bad gaming ethics that's bleeding into other parts of the game.

I know my ideas have holes but they are off the top of my head, but I'm sure it could be put into practice, for example Durumu maze, you take say 75% less damage first couple of ticks, then 50% then 25% then you take the full whack and die and no loot for you for failing. Maybe they could slow it down a bit for LFR but you shouldn't be rewarded for failing when it's so easy. This was just an example, cleverer people than me could make this work and it needs to happen to make LFR a comfortable enjoyable challenge without freeloaders and failers been rewarded same as those that actually try and want a challenging raid experience which your not getting, they could tune it up so much more if people tried. They may as well make all the bosses have 5mil hp and be tank and spank so you can see the place because that's all it is at the minute.

[Wyrt]

The only positive is people would stop bitching about LFR.

[Deleted]

Nope, I wouldn't give a crap.

Remove LFR, make raids puggable, just like in wotlk and all is fine.

[khazlol]

Nope, I wouldn't give a crap.

Remove LFR, make raids puggable, just like in wotlk and all is fine.

but isn't this exactly what they are doing?

edit: making raids pugable that is

[Deleted]

It would upset me.

I avoid lfr as much as possible.
I think it is extremely difficult to fine-tune (e.g. completely idiot-proof to too much coordination needed) and some of the players you meet you hope to never see again).

On the other hand you meet other players that are interesting, learn a strat or two, analyze why they do so much dps or heal so well or the way they tank. And when you are not in a position to raid (e.g. not being able to join a x-days a week raiding guild because you simply cannot afford the time) lfr is a godsend, it helps until you hopefully find a raiding guild with compatible Schedule.

But, if the deal was either lfr or a 10-ID + a 25-ID as before I would choose the double ID any day.
If the deal was either lfr or all raids cross-realm including latest tier I would choose universall cross-realm any day.

[Kulestu]

Anyone that said Yes doesn't understand the ripple effect that it's had on the game.

[Deleted]

but isn't this exactly what they are doing?

Not really.

1. Rewards from LFR aren't as good as those from normals, which would be pug-able.
2. Drops from LFR are rarer than from pug raids, as they don't take into account facts like you being the only one who would actually still need a particular item and being the only one to roll on it. Instead the drops are based on a completely random chance.
3. The difficulty in normals is higher than in LFR. You wouldn't afford to play like a moron and still not die from standing in the fire. There is actually a feeling of accomplishment if you down that boss by playing good.
4. Pug-able raids wouldn't be cross realm, adding to the sense of community

So no, LFR is very much different than a pug raid.

[Deleted]

Not really.

1. Rewards from LFR aren't as good as those from normals, which would be pug-able.
2. Drops from LFR are rarer than from pug raids, as they don't take into account facts like you being the only one who would actually still need a particular item and being the only one to roll on it. Instead the drops are based on a completely random chance.
3. The difficulty in normals is higher than in LFR. You wouldn't afford to play like a moron and still not die from standing in the fire. There is actually a feeling of accomplishment if you down that boss by playing good.
4. Pug-able raids wouldn't be cross realm, adding to the sense of community

So no, LFR is very much different than a pug raid.

Thats why they should put in practice what I mentioned in my first post, it would be a much better experience, it would be a lot harder, 1 shot mechanics no nerfed versions, but with everyone contributing and less afk freeloaders, or baddies that die or can't do more than 40kdps it would be easier and worth doing, a much better experience for all and you would feel like you earned the loot.

All they need to do is punish those that don't contribute or fail in some way until they learn and start pulling their weight or they simply don't get any loot or better yet repeat offenders auto kicked and a long cooldown, they will soon start to read tactics and follow the rules and contribute, and if they still fail after fail with 40kdps then sorry they will never get loot and shouldn't even be trying to road lets be honest.

[Thetruth1400]

I'm all for it staying, if it offers no rewards at all besides a little valor. Lets face it, if you're using it to see the content, you don't need the gear. If you're using it to gear up, power up your character, etc, you should have to put in some effort. The current LFR does not offer any effort or challenge. It's just show up, don't be a complete moron, and get rewarded.

It diminishes the content extremely and the subscriber slump is a clear sign that it is, at least in part, a reason for the decline. The Blues themselves have said that people now sub for a month, see the content, then quit until the next patch. It sure used to be different, and one of the only things that changed was the addition of LFR.

[Deleted]

If your only argument is that LFR is the only way you're gonna see content then fine... Make it so LFR gives no loot at all, or maybe better blue gear than what you'd get from a heroic dungeon. If you only want to see content this should be fine with you and the "elitists" can keep their epeen up. If you demand the epic gear to remain in LFR it only proves your self-esteem is reliant on the gear just as much that it is for the "elitists".
This is coming from a pretty casual player btw.

[Deleted]

No because it's an immersion killing abomination and should have never been implented in the first place. the only reason it was implented was Blizzard thinking they could keep bads playing by offering them a laughably easy version of the real deal. well we all know how that worked out. -5 million sub losses

[Slant]

While I like your confidence, I can't say I see any reason to trust your assessment of the situation. What you are seeing on your server is guilds dying and people running LFR. What exactly qualifies to understand the nature of the relationship between these two phenomena?

[...]

THAT, my friend is the difference between our two theories. I am taking into account the assumption that Blizzard have a pretty decent idea of what they are doing and that this is driving their design decisions. Your theory assumes Blizzard don't know what they are doing.

What qualifies me to understand the relationship? The same thing that doesn't make my statement not a theory. I talk to people. Having been raid lead in one of the top 3 guilds on my server for 7 out of 8 years, I have had a lot of contact to people from my server over the years. Especially people in my guild that have left the game since. I have asked them, and they explained to me why they left. I'm not as much making an argument as an observation. And you may ignore me, but that doesn't make the people wrong that I asked why they left.

How's that for "random guy on the internet is right"?

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Ah, the vocal minority of elite players who still believe the game is all about them, and that only they with there heroic raiding guild deserves to be able to see any of the raiding concent because they do it on hard mode.

I would promptly like to direct you to this video highlighting this issue.



(Been waiting to use this video)

Wow, do you like a cookie with that? Seriously impressive. But here's the thing... who is more wrong, the guy pays an entrance free to participate in an event upon which he will receive a reward based on his accomplishments or the guy who pays to go see, oh let's say the Oscars, walks up on stage and says "Hey, I paid the entrance fee, where's my Oscar?"

That entitlement issue kinda backfired on you, buddy. Don't be mad.

Oh, and for the record. The "vocal minority" is in fact a minority, because the people who could argue our case have left the game. That kinda bums our side out, but one thing it does not: make you right simply because you're the majority. Now, given that Blizzard only does what money tells them to do, you'll win and keep your LFR and whatever crazy they may think up exclusively for you, including ridiculous balancing acts (anyone got the recent paladin change because the class was "too difficult to play", pure epic design decision there, our paladin tanks are still laughing about it...).

But don't expect us to be happy about it. Apparently, we're the ones who're in the wrong game and have to look for a proper MMO. Oh wait, you'd lose even more subs that way. Who will you blame next when your own server is dying? The normal mode raiders? Flex mode raiders? Anyone with any skill surpassing yours, because you perceive in all your smugness that he's "looking down on you" by playing the game in a way that satisfies him? I'm astonished at how you people turn things around and look at good players and instantly denounce them as arrogant elitists when many of us have helped more people pick up and play this fucking game than you've probably ever had the decency to say hello to in one of your LFR raids.

You disgust me.

Well, not you specifically Trassk, I just took the liberty to hooking up your post. I was talking more general in my last paragraph. On the other hand, feel free to include yourself in that if you feel like it, I don't mind. You know best how you approach people like me. It's your choice.

[Draknalor186]

If your only argument is that LFR is the only way you're gonna see content then fine... Make it so LFR gives no loot at all, or maybe better blue gear than what you'd get from a heroic dungeon. If you only want to see content this should be fine with you and the "elitists" can keep their epeen up. If you demand the epic gear to remain in LFR it only proves your self-esteem is reliant on the gear just as much that it is for the "elitists".
This is coming from a pretty casual player btw.

i run it for the gear obviously.. the content u can see on youtube or stream if u want, dono why people care how other's get their epix,

i would be sad if LFR was gone because i just care for the gear and too improve my toon, i dont wanna comit too a guild and wipe 3 hours per day/week or many time's on a boss just for "progression" just give me the gear kkthxbye

if the hardcore raider's just raid for the challange, why should it give better gear ? since if they only care about the challange, how doe's what gear drops matters? every difficulty should have the same gear ^^

[Glorious Leader]

Wow, do you like a cookie with that? Seriously impressive. But here's the thing... who is more wrong, the guy pays an entrance free to participate in an event upon which he will receive a reward based on his accomplishments or the guy who pays to go see, oh let's say the Oscars, walks up on stage and says "Hey, I paid the entrance fee, where's my Oscar?"

That entitlement issue kinda backfired on you, buddy. Don't be mad.

Oh Oh can i answer pick me? Is the answer "the guy on forums who insists that content and whole game systems be removed at the expense of everybody else's fun so that he or she can feel special?". You people have far larger entitlement issues. The guy who wants loot for "nothing" just wants the loot. YOU want the whole games design catered to YOU and your merry band of brothers at the expense of everybody else. That's far worse. You want the entire meta game catered to you and you want to subject everybody else to it based on well nothing as far as I can tell.

Oh yea that backfired alright....

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Jesus, what the hell is this game, a job now? Do I get paid vacations and healthcare?

I'm "earning" lower ilvl epics for doing an easy mode raid. You're earning higher ilvl epics for doing a harder mode raid.

So what exactly is the problem? Are you upset because the text on my gear is still purple? That the models are the same? That somehow me running around in LFR tier deflates your self esteem when you run around in Heroic tier?

The problem is you are no longer beholden to those people for your progress. They hate that you can and that people are saying no thanks to dealing with them and going about their own merry way enjoying the game as they please. It robs them from feeling special.

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I think what these kinds of threads show is that LFR is a deep, philosophical threat to certain players. LFR doesn't directly affect them, but the success of LFR directly threatens their world view, that difficulty is what makes a successful game.

In a bass-ackwards way, they have a point. The success of LFR does threaten their philosophy, by showing how flawed and unrealistic it is. And this is another step on the path to game companies catering to people who like easier content, not hardcore minority content.

Precisely. It's hilarious how much their protests expose them. Question is are they consciously aware of this? I'm sure some are but for most it gets couched in other psychological malaise.