Would it upset you if LFR went away? Why or why not?

[Glorious Leader]

So the constant refining of the mechanics, interfaces etc don't count? What about the loads of new gear to keep your look changing? What about the new zones to explore, new quests, lore, npcs, ideas like the farm and pet battles, etc etc etc.



I started playing WoW because I wanted to play WoW. If it suddenly turns into a 1st person shooter. for example, I will quit. Doing raids and dungeons is an integral part of the game. Take them out and it's likely that the game will die.

No, no, no and the new gear is all pretty shitty looking this expansion. Hasn't been that appealing for awhile actually. Fundamentally all that stuff is the same and nothing has really changed. Doing raids and dungeons is integral except when the developers abandon dungeons and it's no longer integral. Saying the game will die if raid content is removed when historically by and large PEOPLE DID NOT RAID is pretty odd. The developers just actually have the balls to do something fresh with the game instead of yet another raid patch coming in a month...

[cFortyfive]

No victim game. Just the simple fact that raid guilds were cliques and they still are today. Giving those few players all the power basically went to their heads and while you and your merry band of fellows were good chaps I would submit to you that that experience was in fact atypical. It was so atypical in fact that Blizzard got rid of the attunement system. In fact it was so aytipcal that people FLOCKED to 10 man raiding in wotlk to avoid dealing with the already established cliques of assholes running raiding guilds.

Considering most of the people playign the game in TBC didn't take part in the social interaction and were OSTRACIZED by and large either because they couldn't handle the difficulty or could'nt commit the time saying the social experience in wow was better in tbc is laughable. It was filled with exclusionary cliques that lived to gear their friends up at the expense of everbody else in the raid and served to also inflate their already massive egos but maintaining a ridiculous hierarchy but specifically in guilds and in the game in general. The BEST THING the developers ever did was rob these people of power by giving players the option to play by themselves. These systems don't stop you from being social, I met the best group of players I ever played with in Wotlk. They do however require that you open your horizons and be more accepting of other players instead of just holing up in your raid cliques. Ironically the systems today actually require that YOU be gregarious and outgoing and yes SOCIAL and not just some anti social twit in a guild of other anti social twits..

Laughable at best. Each of the thousands of guilds raiding is actually a tight knit circle of cliques. Now that doesn't sound hilarious at all. Not even considering how many people we had coming in from nowhere to an upper scale guild.

[Glorious Leader]

Thanks for proving my point again.

It's hard to prove that which cannot be sustained. I must be some kind of super man.

[Slant]

No victim game. Just the simple fact that raid guilds were cliques and they still are today. Giving those few players all the power basically went to their heads and while you and your merry band of fellows were good chaps I would submit to you that that experience was in fact atypical. It was so atypical in fact that Blizzard got rid of the attunement system. In fact it was so aytipcal that people FLOCKED to 10 man raiding in wotlk to avoid dealing with the already established cliques of assholes running raiding guilds.

You no longer get geared by "rushing a few faceroll instances" the developers heard your call for "progression". They tried for a slightly more vanilla feel in mists although with more catch up than what was offered in vanilla (which was basically none). The player base ran screaming away from it. What makes you think offering none will work any better? or attract more players? It won't. THe game became a success by being progressively more and more casual friendly and player friendly overall. When they started to regress by addressing painfully stupid and regressive notions about "hard" content and "instant catch up" being to good is when players started leaving.

Couple of things, I want to say about this... your personal experience I totally get. But I don't think it's as representative as me saying I was in a great guild that helped people through old content to gear them up. So who of us is wrong? We should just leave it. When you say "the power went to their head", I say "they felt a responsibility to keep the raid going in an organised manner", which sometimes means an individual has to take a compromise for the sake of the group. That is what team play is about.

And about the "catchup" mechanics... um, they don't help. If you're talking heroics, LFR is not even an option for catchup. We still have to gear up new recruits through the main raid. We can't use anyone equipped in LFR gear for heroic progress on Lei Shen, so we still clear the instance every week taking the trials out on farm day while veteran raiders sit out and wait for their turn at progression. How is that for the great catchup mechanics in MoP? I'm not even going into how long it actually takes for you to catch up with the legendary questline. If anyone rolled a new char, I promise you, he won't be done with the quest line until the new expansion is out. It took me almost half a year to catch up to the raid when I started 3 months late into the expansion again.

Back in TBC, I could get a guy keyed up from zero to BT in one weekend. But then, I was the guy doing the social thing in our guild. And when nobody was there to organise shit, I did, instead of complaining about it.

[Akka]

It's hard to prove that which cannot be sustained. I must be some kind of super man.

Okay, let me be more specific :

No victim game. Just the simple fact that raid guilds were cliques and they still are today.
[...]
Considering most of the people playign the game in TBC didn't take part in the social interaction and were OSTRACIZED by and large

And in TBC they more or less all existed to exclude others and even members of their own raids to gear up their own friends. Actually they weren't just cliques, they were cliques within cliques. Far less bullshit in the game when players gained the ability to say fuck you to all of that...

Thanks for proving my point :

What I found common was that people who were always complaining about such things, were usually the ones actually causing social problems, but were blind to their shortcomings and considered that it was the rest of the world who was wrong.

[...]

Reflect much better my own experience of TBC than all the suspicious drivel from people who describe it as a living hell and play the victim game.
Again, it tends to reinforce my impression that people celebrating the faceless, anti-social state of the game today, while claiming that it was worse when you actually had social interaction, tend to be the ones who are anti-social, and who enjoy today's situation because they are the ones benefitting from having no more need to actually socialize.

[Glorious Leader]

Laughable at best. Each of the thousands of guilds raiding is actually a tight knit circle of cliques. Now that doesn't sound hilarious.

And in TBC they more or less all existed to exclude others and even members of their own raids to gear up their own friends. Actually they weren't just cliques, they were cliques within cliques. Far less bullshit in the game when players gained the ability to say fuck you to all of that...

[Synstir]

I would be upset because with disappearing lfr for me, a lot of content (and end game) would also disappear.
For me it would mean that after hitting cap level and getting the dungeon gear, I would have nothing to do.

I never know when I will be online, so I can't commit to any schedule for raiding or what else the game offers.
LFR provides me with an end-game.

[Frozenbeef]

yes, if it was gone the alternative progression would be either 5mans or bgs/arena for the rest of my days.

[cFortyfive]

And in TBC they more or less all existed to exclude others and even members of their own raids to gear up their own friends. Actually they weren't just cliques, they were cliques within cliques. Far less bullshit in the game when players gained the ability to say fuck you to all of that...

Rofl yeah of course the game got way more social when they decided that you could just say fuck it I rather press one button to gear than actually communicating with other humans. Right. Well still laughing.

[Glorious Leader]

Thanks for proving my point :

Except for those who did hit 60 and were simple not invited to the party. They didn't take part in the social interaction because the guilds and more importantly their leadership PURPOSELY excluded people for whatever criteria. not good enough, not attuned, not geared enough, ultimately just not commited enough to suck their balls.

[Dontrike]

It wouldn't matter to me either way, but it would suck for many others if it wasn't around.

[Deleted]

With flex raids coming in, it would be the best action to try to improve social interaction. imho lfr is one of the reasons of wow's decline.

[Glorious Leader]

Rofl yeah of course the game got way more social when they decided that you could just say fuck it I press one button to gear than actually communication with other humans. Right.

Actually YOU decided not to communicate with other people. The game didn't decide that for you. The system in place now actually REQUIRE you to be social if your goal is to be social and not just some anti social nerd in a guild with other nerds who lord over others.

[Slant]

And in TBC they more or less all existed to exclude others and even members of their own raids to gear up their own friends. Actually they weren't just cliques, they were cliques within cliques. Far less bullshit in the game when players gained the ability to say fuck you to all of that...

Personal experience again... I've always been opposed to cliques, but I loved the competetive rivalry between guilds. If that is what you mean about cliques, then you win. Or lose, because that hasn't changed as long as guilds where there to compete with. And cliques (or social groups in social groups) are normal in any social environment, simply because you can't talk to 100 people at once all the time. It's normal for people to hang out with people they like and in a semi civil guild it is totally possible to play together with people you may not like as much. That doesn't make TBC anti social. Unless of course, you throw a temper tantrum each time someone asks you to do something for the team that means you have to sit on the bench or similar. But then that doesn't make the game anti social, either, that just makes you a bad team player. And I'm not so sure I'd like LFR to continue because we need to support people not able to play in a team.

[Akka]

Except for those who did hit 60 and were simple not invited to the party. They didn't take part in the social interaction because the guilds and more importantly their leadership PURPOSELY excluded people for whatever criteria. not good enough, not attuned, not geared enough, ultimately just not commited enough to suck their balls.

Let me repeat it again as you seem to not get it =>

What I found common was that people who were always complaining about such things, were usually the ones actually causing social problems, but were blind to their shortcomings and considered that it was the rest of the world who was wrong.

[GKLeatherCraft]

LFR needs to be abolished. Pugs need to be viable again.

That is all. The casual carebears will be here soon to tell you LFR is the greatest thing ever.

Pugs are still viable, they give better gear, Pugs run all the time on my server, so don't get all mad in your panties because your realm sucks.

OT: I wouldn't be "upset" I like to run LFR for the experience of doing the raid, I play from 10pm to like 2am so there isn't any guilds I've found that raid at those times lol

[cFortyfive]

Actually YOU decided not to communicate with other people. The game didn't decide that for you. The system in place now actually REQUIRE you to be social if your goal is to be social and not just some anti social nerd in a guild with other nerds who lord over others.

It did by deciding that no other action needs to take place than pressing one button. But yeah of course every guild just consists of anti social nerds. Again hilarious.

[ChaosWolf]

Yes, because it would mean I couldn't see raid content at my convenience anymore and Blizzard was catering to a bunch of whiny crybabies who base their self-esteem on not letting others see 'their' content.

But seeing as that will never happen and I'll enjoy their QQ for years to come, it's not something to be concerned about.

Aww, beat me to it.

[Glorious Leader]

Couple of things, I want to say about this... your personal experience I totally get. But I don't think it's as representative as me saying I was in a great guild that helped people through old content to gear them up. So who of us is wrong? We should just leave it. When you say "the power went to their head", I say "they felt a responsibility to keep the raid going in an organised manner", which sometimes means an individual has to take a compromise for the sake of the group. That is what team play is about.

And about the "catchup" mechanics... um, they don't help. If you're talking heroics, LFR is not even an option for catchup. We still have to gear up new recruits through the main raid. We can't use anyone equipped in LFR gear for heroic progress on Lei Shen, so we still clear the instance every week taking the trials out on farm day while veteran raiders sit out and wait for their turn at progression. How is that for the great catchup mechanics in MoP? I'm not even going into how long it actually takes for you to catch up with the legendary questline. If anyone rolled a new char, I promise you, he won't be done with the quest line until the new expansion is out. It took me almost half a year to catch up to the raid when I started 3 months late into the expansion again.

Back in TBC, I could get a guy keyed up from zero to BT in one weekend. But then, I was the guy doing the social thing in our guild. And when nobody was there to organise shit, I did, instead of complaining about it.

Right. Okay my assholes are your captains of raiding. Well I don't see the harm in Blizzard offering outlets that don't require you to suck up to those assholes and kiss their tuchas. The only harm as far as I can tell is that it requires you to be social now and work with people instead of simple saying oh get rid of him or her fuck em we have all the power.

I agree catch up mechanics in mists are fcking terrible. I had 4 secrets left today and i've been on that fucking quest for a month. That was after switching mains. Didn't get a single fucking one today. Catch up is terrible this expansion. Was much better in the past.

[zephid]

They should just remove LFR.