Alliance players have a right to be angry with MoP

[Tomana]

Except everything we've been told (in-game and by Metzen) so far indicates the former.

And you're right, but I would call it a truce more than a lasting peace.

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I have to disagree. There's been no real indication that the Alliance wants war with the Orcs for the sake of war with the Orcs. Even a guy like Admiral Proudmoore wanted war because he was convinced that they were a threat, not because he just hated Orcs.

Alliance (well, again, humans) does not want war, it just wants to control the whole Azeroth. And if some "barbarians" like Orcs or Taurens get in between, well they deserve to die (see: war). Actually, it reminds me of another nation in real-life history.

[Eats Compost]

Alliance (well, again, humans) does not want war, it just wants to control the whole Azeroth. And if some "barbarians" like Orcs or Taurens get in between, well they deserve to die (see: war). Actually, it reminds me of another nation in real-life history.

I disagree. The Alliance is never really seen attempting to reap the spoils of war; when they expand (much like the Horde when Garrosh isn't involved) it's for the purpose of fighting a particular enemy, which is either a neutral foe or the opposite faction.

Neither one wants to control the world (again, outside of Garrosh's business) but both want to secure it; that is, remove the hostile forces from it, for their own safety. After all, you can't sit back and twiddle your thumbs while thinking "I sure hope that the Twilight's Hammer/Scourge/[Faction with a doomsday device] doesn't attack me today". No, you've got to get out there are do something about it. There's very little wholesale war profiteering going on in the Warcraft universe, save for a few examples like the Goblins doing Goblin things. Even then, the point remains that there's no indication that the wars are waged for profit or personal gain.

There's very little Rome going on here. Just high fantasy.

[Scummer]

And you're right, but I would call it a truce more than a lasting peace.

Well that's just Warcraft. It is peace none the less.

[Deleted]

I don't want the Horde to blow up in a fiery blaze of anguish and despair while Varian cackles maniacally on top of a pile of Horde baby skulls. I just want a little blaze of fiery anguish :3

Honestly, I just want to have a fairer treatment. I want the same amount of thought and detail to go into both factions quests and stories. When one faction gets character development, I want the other to also get some of equal quality.

I mean, was it really so hard to just let Alliance players do a short prequel where Varian sends you to speak with Vol'jin about the rebellion, then, coincidentally, the Kor'kron attack Sen'jin and the same quest as the Horde's begins for Alliance players? It still would have made perfect sense! Why was it that one faction got a better thought out and detailed quest over the other?

[wombinator04]

Next expac SW will get mana bomed, Then all Alliance starting zones are mana bombed also. Then Blizzard adds Chris Metzen in the game impaling the remaining Alliance that arnt dead yet.

[Yriel]

I did play it on my Troll Warrior, and I thought it was an awesome quest. If you look at every quest the same way you do, then Battle for the Undercity was also just a bunch of kill quests and escort quests. Booooring.

But it wasn't, was it? It was cool because you felt like you were part of something, because lots of other things were happening all around you. Just like with these quests, looking at them 'as a quest' yeah, it's a potentially boring quests, just like every other we've seen in the game thousands of times, but it's everything together that made it a good experience, that made it fun.

It wasn't just you and 10 bears or that damn mechanical chicken the moves slower than walking speed.

Heck, I'm sure that even you can't deny the thought and detail that went into the Horde's quests while the Alliance's 'Mehcanical cat save troll lol' was an afterthought.

Well, the difference is, in the battle for undercity i actually fought alongside Thrall and Sylvanas. They were not just some background scenery like the heroes were here, locked in an endless fight with a Kor'kron where no one ever does damage. And undercity was an actual fight. You could die there, it could even fail altogether. Here the Mortars that are "attacking" Sen'jin are doing nothing. Thrall or Vol'jin will never get a single point of damage. You could log out after killing 2 mortars and log in the next day and nothing would have changed. Try that with the battle for undercity.
For me it was just three boring quests and thats it. If you think that it was an epic experience, more power to you.
I didn't even care to play them on more then one character and i have played the 5.1 quests on 5 chars hordeside and 2 chars allianceside.

But actually i think it's just an argument alliance players like to use to show Horde bias while (at least for me), the quests for both sides were just boring and uninspired.

[josykay]

On top of that, she can continue playing Lich Queen because she has plot armor that makes the Argent Crusade and the Ebon Blade derp around and keep their fingers in their nostrils for no good reason while she throws plaguebarrels at innocent and less-innocent people.

Blizzard should stop that "Undead Massmurderers and Necromancers as morally watchmen about the vile Forsaken"-Nonsense anyway. It nothing but ridiculous from the very beginning. The Deathknights are fare more dangerous than the usual Forsaken, and all commited horrible crimes, even after they got their free will back.
Deathknights should have never been introduced as a playable class (atleast outside the Forsaken, where they could have served as a Horde counterpart for Paladins with quite similar engine abilitys bearing other names, like the mirror mechanic of Chosens of Chaos and Knights of the Blazing Sun of Warhammer online).

But now we got them as a playable class... So i still think, Blizzard should drop the idea of "Watchmen" and give them a plot for them own, including own development like falling deeper and deeper into corruption, struggle with the Argent Crusade, since they still are damn wicked, evil, brutal, cruel creatures...

[Annarion]

I don't know if you guys played Warcraft before WoW, but it's basically been about the Horde the entire time. The story telling in 1+2 was done mostly from an Alliance PoV, but we've been following the adventures of Jesus-Thrall since WC3. Everything the Alliance has done has been in reaction. Orcs get free? Chase 'em to Kalimdor. Orcs cut down the forest? Team up with the Humans. Orcs kill Centaurs and Naga? Form the Horde. Everyone reacts to Thrall's actions. He is the main character. If Metzen was writing Wheel of Time, Thrall is Rand. Yes other characters are important and get screen time, but Thrall is the main character.

[Jamie081]

I'd actually prefer it if they just left the Alliance alone. Every time they try and improve it they mess it up even more.

[Deleted]

Do you agree Cataclysm was a "Horde expansion" because of Thrall's frequent presence?.

Yes I do, I consider Cataclysm to be the only Horde expansion.

[Zulkhan]

Sounds like fate to me. Otherwise it would've gone the other way around. Either way my point still stands. Alliance is still very able to decimate Ogrimmar, and Jaina is one of Alliance's assets.

But Jaina is not capable of doing anything of that magnitude without the Focusing Iris, and Kalecgos gave the Focusing Iris to the Kirin Tor for protection and preservation, not for be used like a weapon (like Garrosh did). Recklessly abusing the faith of the former Dragon Aspect and using a power that not belong to them for destroy their enemy isn't something that can be called an "Alliance's asset".

Anyway the best thing of this is that even they would do something crazy like that, all that they would achieve is a shameful mass-murder (unless the civilians wouldn't be evacuated at that time, but we don't know for sure) because the majority of Garrosh's "ultimate army" is underground, in the Underhold.

I forgot about the Vindicators. I mean, they're draenei, when have they done anything? XD
The Knights of the Silver Hand are dissolved. There is no actual order left in the Alliance, really. I'm hoping maaaaybe Turalyon reforms it if he returns.

In fact, that order exists, since the paladins in the Alliance are defined "Knigths of the Silver Hand" by the paladin trainer himself when they complete one of their quests. Yeah, is not the Silver Hand of Lordaeron, the original one that born there and there has been destroyed, but since they are Alliance paladins following similar ideals in name of their faction and their people, I don't think is crazy define them as an order with the same name, especially if we consider that the paladin trainer call them in that way.
All that Turalyon could do is just give an official representation to them, but the paladins are there, in the Alliance, and they can indeed be considered an order.

I'm not saying Arthas isn't a motivation for the Alliance, but the argument is regularly made that Lordaeron is owned by its rightful citizens since Forsaken are the undead Lordaeron citizens. The majority of Arthas' betrayal was against the Forsaken and Quel'dorei. You can't have it both ways to say the Alliance bears no claim to Lordaeron yet Arthas was an Alliance focused storyline.

Arthas was a very specific point of interest for both Horde and Alliance. He was not an Alliance-specific storyline. Likewise, Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern were not "Horde raids" because the final bosses were involved in WoW-era Horde faction ties.

I understand your way of reasoning, but is not valid in my opinion. Forsaken and Sin'dorei had an interest about him, but apart this they had little involvement with him; something more the Forsaken, but indeed the Blood Elves had no kind of involvement with Arthas, and this made sense lorewise in the end if we consider that Sylvanas had to blackmail Lor'themar for convincing him to sail to Northrend: they had no interest in vengeance, unlike Sylvanas, simply because they didn't have the luxury to think about it with all the disasters they faced, they have been all focused on Dalaran and the Quel'danar storyline (both shared by the rising Silver Covenant faction). Then, ofcourse, the rest of the Horde had no involvement or tie with the Lich King, since Ner'zhul was good and dead in WotLK.

On the other hand, as Alliance you do some quests in Dragonblight that shows some very important moments of WC3, like when Arthas lied to his men about the burned ships, you even go in the very cave where Arthas found Frostmourne and abandoned both his hammer and Muradin. In Storm Peaks you find Muradin himself, which is a freaking important character in Arthas's story, and he comes with you in Icecrown Citadel (unlike Sylvanas). Even the Culling of Stratholme is a very important Alliance moment, is the "WoW version" of the WC3 campaign, and Horde players are absolutely "aliens" in it.

Nope, Arthas is blatantly more Alliance-focused, you cannot compare Tempest Keep and Kael'thas, where Kael'thas and his blood elves NEVER had a fucking relationship with the Horde (those who had were the blood elves in Azeroth under Lor'themar) while Arthas and his entire story of damnation has been build up within (and against) the Alliance, with Thrall's Horde just escaping in Kalimdor, both by Arthas and the Scourge.

[ImpalerEU]

I'd rather see my faction have zero story-lines than see scumbags, the opposing faction, simpletons and bots raid my faction's main city in LFR.

[Tarx]

I'm still waiting as alliance the time to kill this little blonde prince

[josykay]

I'm still waiting as alliance the time to kill this little blonde prince

Oh, I like Anduin. I would rather like to kill that Anime character "scarface-supersaiyan-wolfgod-highking" King Chin. I liked is former self, when he was sitting in his cell in the Marshes of Dustwallow much more... When he was just a normal human instead of an Anime character.

[OrcsRLame]

I don't know if you guys played Warcraft before WoW, but it's basically been about the Horde the entire time. The story telling in 1+2 was done mostly from an Alliance PoV, but we've been following the adventures of Jesus-Thrall since WC3. Everything the Alliance has done has been in reaction. Orcs get free? Chase 'em to Kalimdor. Orcs cut down the forest? Team up with the Humans. Orcs kill Centaurs and Naga? Form the Horde. Everyone reacts to Thrall's actions. He is the main character. If Metzen was writing Wheel of Time, Thrall is Rand. Yes other characters are important and get screen time, but Thrall is the main character.

Only two of those things actually happened.

The Alliance came to Kalimdor because Medivh told Jaina to do so. Both her and Thrall were just heeding his warning. It was Grom that initiated first contact with the Night Elves, (under Thrall's orders to set up a base camp) but the Night Elves didn't team up against the Orcs with the Humans. The Night Elves immediately took a "kill everything that's not one us" stance, including Humans in that. Then the Orcs and Humans teamed up against the Scourge, Burning Legion and Night Elves, once again due to Medivh telling them to do so, and then eventually Medivh got Malfurion, Tyrande, Jaina and Thrall all in the same spot and told them to work together, which they did, and thus the Battle of Mount Hyjal happened.

Medivh was the driving force behind most of the events in Reign of Chaos. The only major action Thrall took on his own was forming the Horde after going to Kalimdor. He did one major thing by himself and that's it. These were the campaigns and main characters in Warcraft 3.

Humans - Arthas
Undead - Arthas
Orcs - Thrall
Night Elves - Tyrande
Night Elves - Maiev
Humans - Kael'Thas
Undead - Arthas

Arthas was the main character for 3/7ths of Warcraft 3. Note I define main character as the hero you first get when you start a campaign, but there were of course other important heroes in the various campaigns such as Malfurion and Tyrande in Maiev's campaign. Either way, Thrall probably got the least screen time of all the main heroes in the Warcraft 3 campaigns, which is probably why they made The Founding of Durotar, because otherwise Thrall wouldn't have gotten any screen time in Frozen Throne.

Note, I don't even like Thrall that much, but I'm also not blind to the facts.

[josykay]

Medivh was the driving force behind most of the events in Reign of Chaos. The only major action Thrall took on his own was forming the Horde after going to Kalimdor. He did one major thing by himself and that's it. These were the campaigns and main characters in Warcraft 3.

I see once more, that it is a real shame, that Blizzard decided to cancel the "Lord of the Clans" adventure game, which pretty much telled the story of Thrall after his escape from Durnholde, meeting with the Frostwolfs, Orgrimm Doomhammer, liberated the Orcs and united them... It would just have been a damn epic tale, far better than those stupid novels...

[Florena]

I see once more, that it is a real shame, that Blizzard decided to cancel the "Lord of the Clans" adventure game, which pretty much telled the story of Thrall after his escape from Durnholde, meeting with the Frostwolfs, Orgrimm Doomhammer, liberated the Orcs and united them... It would just have been a damn epic tale, far better than those stupid novels...

I think Lord of the Clans is actually one of the better Warcraft novels.

[Flutterguy]

5.1 was great. After that it tailed off into nothing for the Alliance. 5.2 was not nearly as explosive as it could have been and judging from what we know about 5.4 ultimately meaningless for the core story. There's nothing significant about Jaina obtaining power from the fallen Thunder King. It plays no role in 5.4. The encounter between her and Lorthemar doesn't seem to mean too much either when it comes down to it. 5.2 became filler and nothing more. 5.3 was lukewarm for Alliance and fairly well done for Horde.

I'm not expecting much from 5.4 for the Alliance. Varian won't play a significant role anymore than most of the other leaders. It will fall on the usual suspects.

[Deleted]

Maybe next expansion event starts when Garrosh finally is trying to empower himself with old god-powers and releases Ysaarjh which leads to the Dark below.

[Florena]

5.1 was great. After that it tailed off into nothing for the Alliance. 5.2 was not nearly as explosive as it could have been and judging from what we know about 5.4 ultimately meaningless for the core story. There's nothing significant about Jaina obtaining power from the fallen Thunder King. It plays no role in 5.4. The encounter between her and Lorthemar doesn't seem to mean too much either when it comes down to it. 5.2 became filler and nothing more. 5.3 was lukewarm for Alliance and fairly well done for Horde.

I'm not expecting much from 5.4 for the Alliance. Varian won't play a significant role anymore than most of the other leaders. It will fall on the usual suspects.

5.4 is hinging on the SoO cinematics, especially the ending one.

Speaking of which do we know if SoO has cinematics like the dragon soul ones leading up to the Madness fight? If so I assume they're nyi.