Alliance players have a right to be angry with MoP

[Deleted]

SNIP

Regarding SoO, for me it would have been quite enough if the build-up to this event actually included reasons for Alliance's subsequent withdrawal from all frontlines.

Like. . . .:

>Farseers warning the High King that attempting to raze both Hordes would weaken the overall strenght of Azeroth-bound races to the point that any upcoming cosmic horror would certainly stand triumphant over the lifeless ball of rock that was once a sprawling planet full of life;

>Commanders becoming aware that Alliance has overestimated its fortitude and heavy losses would make occupation/sacking attempt into a pyrrhic victory;

>Some other long-term planning session within the high command that ended with such a solution; etc

But nooooooooo.... there is so far no reason given and I am worried if it will be given at all.

At the worst possible case Blizzard will have Alliance forces holding the victorious rebels at gunpoint - releasing them only to let them know that they could as well have destroyed them, but they chose not to. I had to stomach BS of this kind with a tale of why the Deathwing has mostly spared StormWind - and I would hate to see the faction I picked as my new allegiance to be cursed with similar BS as well.

[Tyrathius]

This is where we differ. I don't see any reason for them to appear now, the Alliance is just fine without them and will already have the upper hand after the Siege.

They may not be necessary from a strength perspective, but they would add some diversity to humanity. Back in the older games there were seven different human kingdoms, each with their own distinctive cultures. Now all but Stormwind are gone (well, technically Gilneas and Dalaran are still around, but Gilneas is Worgenified and Dalaran was retconned to be mostly elves in order to make the Horde's presence there in WotLK more justified). Giving us Kul Tiras or Stromgarde would help this, and perhaps give humanity a hat besides "the normal guys".

Even the floating city of Dalaran has quite a bit of rock underneath it. And a bridge still has supports. Bridges cannot hold up an entire district.

Most of that rock is the sewers.

And the park crater could be filled in anyway.

This I was not aware of.

Perhaps I should specify, it's the Rogue-specific Wrathion questline.

Who would trade with them at this point? If there is one point I agree with, it is that the Alliance owe the Horde NOTHING. Not everything can be pinned on Garrosh and passed off as even just cause he's dead, and I doubt most of the Alliance would be willing to allow the Horde to regain it's strength by trading needed resources to them.

If the Alliance is willing to leave Orgrimmar unconditionally (which is stupid in itself, but it looks like it's what's gonna happen), then they'll probably be willing to trade. Especially if it means the Horde will stop attacking them.

I don't recall the last time we saw Alleria, but if it's when I believe, it was long before the Orcs were cleared of their blood curse. She absolutely might only wish to join the Alliance, but it is also possible she wishes to make peace with her sisters. Sylvanas may be a terrible monstrosity, but she is still moved by the sight of her sister's locket. If there is a SINGLE person in the entire world (of warcraft) that can turn Sylvanas away from her path, it's Alleria.

I think having them at odds would make for a more interesting story. Especially given that Blizz has thus far ignored the potential conflict between Sylvanas and Vareesa.

At any rate, taking fan favorite Alliance characters like Turalyon and Alleria and making them neutral, or worse, Horde, is not going to earn Blizz any points with the Alliance playerbase.

Which I've mentioned needs to be done one way or another. That's the one major problem I have with the Alliance; Too human centric.

Agreed. I would actually take this a step further and say it's too Varian, Anduin and Jaina-centric, since outside of those three humanity has not had any meaningful story progression since Wrath.

I'm pretty sure the gnomes have already started taking back Gnomer. No, it's not quite complete yet, I understand that. (And I wholly accept the idea of the removal of the Gnomer instance, please save me from the horror of needing to run that again.) But I would gladly give Gnomer in return for an Echo Isles capital. I'm not a fan of the way Goblins were implemented in general, so I'd rather it not be Bilgewater Harbor.

They're trying. People want them to actually succeed.

Most people claimed the entirety of Cataclysm was Horde-centric because they followed Thrall around. Thrall was not a part of the Horde during this time; He was with the Earthen Ring, similarly to the way Tirion lead the Argent Crusade. Yes, Thrall made more appearances than Tirion did, but it is the same concept.

It's a similar concept but not exactly the same. For one, Tirion was a character created specifically to be neutral (yes, he was part of the Alliance, but only so he could be kicked out for helping an orc) while Thrall was a Horde character for years before turning neutral in Cata. Two, Thrall still acted in the Horde's favor during his stint as a neutral, while Tirion went out of his way to stay neutral even when it didn't make sense. Three, Thrall went back to the Horde after Cata, while Tirion was still neutral last we saw him.

I think Blizz should just dispense with neutral characters entirely though, except for factions who truly are neutral (such as the Golden Lotus or Klaxxi). I don't like questing for Horde characters and I don't think most Horde players like questing for Alliance characters.

And I was comparing questing for Anduin to the Alliance assisting the Darkspear, not Thrall. The Horde do several quests for Anduin; The Alliance do a single weekly quest for the Darkspear. (and gather supplies if they feel like it, but that is not important to the storyline.)

Depends on how you look at it, I suppose. Horde had a few quests with Anduin, while 5.3 was based entirely around the Horde even if you play Alliance. 5.4 isn't looking much better, with the Alliance not being mentioned in the trailer and Thrall being the one who confronts Garrosh.

[Koreche]

To all idiots complaining that they should kill the horde...
Germany still exists
Japan still exists
Why? its inhumane to completely kill everybody and completely destroy a government/country/traditions/religion because the head of said country and a few others went mad with power. People can still be innocent in a country your at war with. Learn to realize this already happened in Real Life, saying its BS that they don't kill everyone in the horde because they can makes you look stupid.

reminds me of that "other side on azeroth" the main reason people didn't believe it was some crap like "You really think there is a whole other side of azeroth and nobody ever noticed it?" like America didn't happen... and basically if you didn't live on a continent a thousand years ago, you didn't know it existed... Some terrible arguments made by wow players nowadays.

[Deleted]

To all idiots complaining that they should kill the horde...
Germany still exists
Japan still exists
Why? its inhumane to completely kill everybody and completely destroy a government/country/traditions/religion because the head of said country and a few others went mad with power. People can still be innocent in a country your at war with. Learn to realize this already happened in Real Life, saying its BS that they don't kill everyone in the horde because they can makes you look stupid.

reminds me of that "other side on azeroth" the main reason people didn't believe it was some crap like "You really think there is a whole other side of azeroth and nobody ever noticed it?" like America didn't happen... and basically if you didn't live on a continent a thousand years ago, you didn't know it existed... Some terrible arguments made by wow players nowadays.

To all the idiots interpreting "why we don't get to sack ORG?' posts as a genuine wish for an in-game implementation:

All of these are posts meant to exemplify what perceived outcome is given off by the impression of "weak, faractured Horde VS strong, unified Alliance" that people like Kosak try to push through, while no explaination for Alliance's actions is given - NOT what such players want to see.

One Aquamonkey is enough of a troublemaker, no need to copy his behaviour.

[Deleted]

To all idiots complaining that they should kill the horde...
Germany still exists
Japan still exists
Why? its inhumane to completely kill everybody and completely destroy a government/country/traditions/religion because the head of said country and a few others went mad with power. People can still be innocent in a country your at war with. Learn to realize this already happened in Real Life, saying its BS that they don't kill everyone in the horde because they can makes you look stupid.

reminds me of that "other side on azeroth" the main reason people didn't believe it was some crap like "You really think there is a whole other side of azeroth and nobody ever noticed it?" like America didn't happen... and basically if you didn't live on a continent a thousand years ago, you didn't know it existed... Some terrible arguments made by wow players nowadays.

Using German and Japan post-WWII as example is in this case impropiate as well.
The Americans and Russians didn't just leave Japan and Germany at their own after the war.They had a lot of influence in the repairements. Japan still has constitional laws that they can't have forces that can be used to attack, like plain carriers. Russia dictated the economic and political course of East-Germany for years and allied forces were stationed in West-Germany for years as peacekeepers as well.

[Deleted]

Using German and Japan post-WWII as example is in this case impropiate as well.
The Americans and Russians didn't just leave Japan and Germany at their own after the war.They had a lot of influence in the repairements. Japan still has constitional laws that they can't have forces that can be used to attack, like plain carriers. Russia dictated the economic and political course of East-Germany for years and allied forces were stationed in West-Germany for years as peacekeepers as well.

...Not to mention that the decision to -WoW buzzword speaking- 'let them off the hook' wasn't a brainfart that occured following the storming of last bastion - but a long-term framework that took a series of vast multinational conferences to be raised while the Hitlerites were still holding a considerable chunk of the continet.

So far I have yet to see an Alliance commander raising a hand on how to address the 'Horde question'. Perhaps we will get to see it being suddenly unraveled. Perhaps we will see it carried out in a manner that will leave this community in a far worse turmoil than the one it already is in.

[Styx1992]

Because Garrosh has gone insane with power, we should just sit back and watch people die ....
last time we did that, the horde lost against the f****** lich king

[Granyala]

>Farseers warning the High King that attempting to raze both Hordes would weaken the overall strenght of Azeroth-bound races to the point that any upcoming cosmic horror would certainly stand triumphant over the lifeless ball of rock that was once a sprawling planet full of life;

>Commanders becoming aware that Alliance has overestimated its fortitude and heavy losses would make occupation/sacking attempt into a pyrrhic victory;

Sorry but these things are PAINFULLY obvious. Do you really need Blizzard to spell it out for you?

The mere notion that the Alliance would be able to subdue or conquer the Horde is absurd. If they'd want to take and keep Orgrimmar, they would suddenly have ALL Horde factions united against them. It would end in a very long and very, very messy conflict.
Neither side has any appetite for that at the moment, so removing Garrosh and leaving Orgrimmar as a sign of good will, is the best option in order to create a climate where diplomacy can once again bear fruits.

Besides: ALL sides involved know that it's just a matter of time until the legion returns. ALL sides know that there are other forces on Azeroth, that would jump at the chance of taking profit of a prolonged all out Alliance vs Horde war.

[Deleted]

The way I see it panning out is a repeat of the lor'themar/jaina thing on isle of thunder. When the dust settles radical alliance elements will threaten the Horde, Horde will counter threaten to resist until both sides are broken.

Pandaren lecture and encourage both sides to walk away and end the cycle of hatred.

Above all the question of why we fight will be answered.

[Asphyxiate9]

Really? We stopped Garrosh in 5.1, We took an entire city (Dalaran) in 5.2, in 5.3 the Horde blew apart while the Alliance came together even stronger than before, and now we are marching into Orgrimmar to slay their leader.

I feel like we have the better end of the stick if anything...

[Deleted]

Really? We stopped Garrosh in 5.1, We took an entire city (Dalaran) in 5.2, in 5.3 the Horde blew apart while the Alliance came together even stronger than before, and now we are marching into Orgrimmar to slay their leader.

I feel like we have the better end of the stick if anything...

You don't get it, do you?
The Dalaran scenario was in the 5.1 questline. The Alliance story basicly stopped right there at 5.1.
Isle of Thunder at 5.2 was basicly a mirrored questline with different NPCs in. There was little faction specific content there, seeing it was aginst the Thunderking forces.

The Horde was already starting to blow apart in 5.1. There is no interaction with Alliance command concerning that, because there hasn't been an interaction with Alliance command since 5.1.
5.3 is playing robotcat and being Vol'jin's slaveboy.

5.4 has yet to be seen. But it doesn't really feel like much sieging if there are major Horde involvement, like Thrall being at the final fight (again) against Garrosh.

[Enosh]

To all idiots complaining that they should kill the horde...
Germany still exists
Japan still exists
Why? its inhumane to completely kill everybody and completely destroy a government/country/traditions/religion because the head of said country and a few others went mad with power. People can still be innocent in a country your at war with. Learn to realize this already happened in Real Life, saying its BS that they don't kill everyone in the horde because they can makes you look stupid.

yes after hitler killed himself the allies walked in and put himmler in charge, left germany all of europe and walked back home

oh wait no they didn't, they completely dismantled the existing power structure, screened everyone that stayed in positions of authority or the military, imposed hefty reparations, had to give up all territory gains they got in the war and underwent years of denazification and occupation

[tornado shanks]

Both sides are equally as terrible. I stopped caring for Alliance long ago, and Thrall's "saving the world" shit bored me to death in Cata. Not to mention the assassination of Garrosh's character... in a book.

I'm happily playing other MMOs now, wishing Blizzard would just abolish factions.

Yet you still post on WoW forums. You are hopelessly addicted to this game, and are in denial. You will resub; I stake my life on it.

[Drilnos]

yes after hitler killed himself the allies walked in and put himmler in charge, left germany all of europe and walked back home

oh wait no they didn't, they completely dismantled the existing power structure, screened everyone that stayed in positions of authority or the military, imposed hefty reparations, had to give up all territory gains they got in the war and underwent years of denazification and occupation

I don't even know where to begin with this. At the end of SoO all the "nazis" are dead, the player faction formerly known as Horde doesn't even have a power structure, and if anyone's left in charge it's the guy with the eyepatch from Valkyrie. Hefty reparations and humiliating concessions are, furthermore, the exact things that created the political climate that gave birth to National Socialism in the first place.

But there's a bigger problem with this line of reasoning. It's called Godwin's Law.

[Sealbinder]

As an Alliance player I am enjoying this expansion and the story. In addition are you really angry with a video game story line? You are investing that much emotion into a game that you are feeling actual anger? I have to ask about priorities. They will do a story, some will like it, some will not, life will go on. Your life and my life are not affected in anyway, since in the end, it is a game.

[Arcanist]

As an Alliance player I am enjoying this expansion and the story. In addition are you really angry with a video game story line? You are investing that much emotion into a game that you are feeling actual anger? I have to ask about priorities. They will do a story, some will like it, some will not, life will go on. Your life and my life are not affected in anyway, since in the end, it is a game.

If I'm paying a monthly subscription fee in addition to services fees, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent story.

[Sealbinder]

If I'm paying a monthly subscription fee in addition to services fees, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent story.

As someone who has enjoyed the story I think I am getting one. I am sorry that you have not enjoyed it, but we are now bickering about subjective feelings regarding something. I liked it. You did not. This is subjective. However once again you are using general terms saying that those who play Alliance "should" be upset, when that is not the case. The case is that you and some other heavily invested faction supporters are upset, I however just can't empathize with being upset that things did not go with how you wanted, especially in a video game. A game is a game, no matter how much you pay for it.

[Deleted]

Sorry but these things are PAINFULLY obvious. Do you really need Blizzard to spell it out for you?

The mere notion that the Alliance would be able to subdue or conquer the Horde is absurd. If they'd want to take and keep Orgrimmar, they would suddenly have ALL Horde factions united against them. It would end in a very long and very, very messy conflict.
Neither side has any appetite for that at the moment, so removing Garrosh and leaving Orgrimmar as a sign of good will, is the best option in order to create a climate where diplomacy can once again bear fruits.

Besides: ALL sides involved know that it's just a matter of time until the legion returns. ALL sides know that there are other forces on Azeroth, that would jump at the chance of taking profit of a prolonged all out Alliance vs Horde war.

We will see about how 'obvious' it really becomes for the playerbase when the SoO rolls around.
But hey - this forum community contains a [hopefully] small vocal minority of Hordies who seem to thrive off 'dem delicious butthurt Ally crybaby tears' - perhaps having even more infuriated Alliance players around is what you yearn for?
All this self-importance just waiting to be gathered from telling disgruntled customers to either faction change or unsub.... must be irresistible!

[bionics]

Come to think of it though, if the roles were reversed and this patch were called Siege of Stormwind -- I would be pumped for it no matter if I were Horde or Alliance for the chance to kill Varian.

[Deleted]

So... What you're saying is we can't expect the Alliance players to understand anything?

That explains a lot.

Sweetie, not everyone has decided to shell out additional buck for a whole library of WoW lore books and other reference materials that make it oh-so-obvious.

Not that long ago people were whining to heavens and beyond that there is no drawback to allowing Garrosh his triumph, despite "Blank Scroll" story being pasted on the main page - that is why I used the word "playerbase".

But if you insist on attributing feeble mindedness to Alliance at the drop of the hat, then I think we can conclude this conversation.