Will ESO being sub based affect WoW?

[Granyala]

Hardware programmers are alas a dying breed in VG development. They figure that 'puters are powerful, so no need to bother with such stuff.

Well 'puters are. But not everyone has a new 'puter at his disposal that can compensate for BS on the Dev-End.
I wished they had put that ridiculous Budget sacrificed to the moronic and unnecessary voice-acting into better use and developed a neatly running engine + other unique stuff.

VO was great for class quests. The rest was just annoying as hell, esp the "native language" dialogues where after 3 NPCs you recognized the sound files already. I was actually happy when I found a quest i the mailboxes and could just read the text, since I'm much faster at processing information that way.

[Deleted]

This mmo will fail like all before it, it looks clunky and every way just not fun to play.

[Nobleshield]

IMHO, SWTOR suffered first and foremost from the lack of balls of Bioware (and prolly EA too). They could have made something like a revolutionary space MMO, but they chose simply to clone WoW.

Definitely this. SWTOR would have been infinitely better if it had a combat system similar to say GW2 (Yes I know GW2 wasn't out at that time) than being a WoW clone. Instead they took the easy route that so many other games have tried (and failed at) by looking at the king of the hill (i.e. WoW) and trying to outdo it.

If you ask me these games publishers need a wakeup call: You can't beat WoW at it's own game. It's impossible nowadays. You need to bring something to the table OTHER than the typical WoW style game. This is where I think Wildstar is making a grave mistake: They are actually TRYING to be WoW 2013 (or 2014 as the case may be). They are aiming directly at being a modern/sci-fi version of WoW from everything I've read, with the delusion that what WoW is lacking is the glory days of Vanilla and TBC, and raiding being an exclusive thing again. Sure they seem to have some interesting concepts like their housing, and if they can pull it off solid endgame content for all levels beyond just raiding, but their original dev posts read like a group of the most rabid Vanilla/TBC fanboys got together to develop a game that will restore the golden age of WoW and show all the ignorant masses that people really want super hard raids that only the best of the best can do. I think it's going to go the same way that RIFT did. RIFT was (still is) a great game but at launch my first instinct was "I already pay for WoW, why would I pay for a better-looking WoW?"

TESO I don't know what to say, as some of their decisions feel outright retarded: The faction/race divide in particular strikes me as the most worthless idea I've ever seen, since you're completely unable to play with the other factions for most of the game and having what, three races per faction isn't exactly appealing. It seems like they shoved some crappy lore in place to add PVP to a game that should have just been open completely with PVP gladiator arenas like in the console games; they dropped the ball bigtime as TESO would have been the perfect sandbox MMO where most everything is player-decided (almost like a fantasy version of EVE Online, but not quite that far) and would be THE perfect MMO for GW2/EQNext style dynamic questing and changing areas. Coupled with the fact that you segregate people on their platform (however that might not be something they can address, it just really sucks that I need to get a console to play with others using the console because I can't interact with them from the PC version) is going to make this a big flop I think although I'm sure it will see launch success.

[Tomana]

Well 'puters are. But not everyone has a new 'puter at his disposal that can compensate for BS on the Dev-End.
I wished they had put that ridiculous Budget sacrificed to the moronic and unnecessary voice-acting into better use and developed a neatly running engine + other unique stuff.

Totally agree. They concentrated on leveling experience and not end-game. Baaaad idea

[Granyala]

They are actually TRYING to be WoW 2013 (or 2014 as the case may be). They are aiming directly at being a modern/sci-fi version of WoW from everything I've read, with the delusion that what WoW is lacking is the glory days of Vanilla and TBC, and raiding being an exclusive thing again.

Are you serious?

If so, then Wildstar will fail... HARD and FAST, as soon as the rose tinted glasses of all these "vanilla-TBC nostalgists" are pulled off.
It'll probably retain it's niche of loyal hardcore fans, but big popularity is out of the picture.

[Tomana]

Definitely this. SWTOR would have been infinitely better if it had a combat system similar to say GW2 (Yes I know GW2 wasn't out at that time) than being a WoW clone. Instead they took the easy route that so many other games have tried (and failed at) by looking at the king of the hill (i.e. WoW) and trying to outdo it.

Actually I was thinking of something more EvE-ish (but more accessible of course), but something resembling GW2 could work as well

If you ask me these games publishers need a wakeup call: You can't beat WoW at it's own game. It's impossible nowadays. You need to bring something to the table OTHER than the typical WoW style game. This is where I think Wildstar is making a grave mistake: They are actually TRYING to be WoW 2013 (or 2014 as the case may be).

It's not even that. They're trying to be WoW Vanilla in 2013 (or 2014). Which is not surprising considering who is developing it.

They are aiming directly at being a modern/sci-fi version of WoW from everything I've read, with the delusion that what WoW is lacking is the glory days of Vanilla and TBC, and raiding being an exclusive thing again. Sure they seem to have some interesting concepts like their housing, and if they can pull it off solid endgame content for all levels beyond just raiding, but their original dev posts read like a group of the most rabid Vanilla/TBC fanboys got together to develop a game that will restore the golden age of WoW and show all the ignorant masses that people really want super hard raids that only the best of the best can do.

They do not read like a group of the most rabid Vanilla/TBC fanboys, they ARE those fanboys. Because they designed the original WoW, and they're still stuck in that time like an insect in amber.
And they behave like a boy who broke free from the parents' authority (Blizzard) and now thinks they can do anything they want. IRL, it ends up with getting drunk and crashing the car. In the VG world... well, we shall see.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you serious?

Ofc he is, just read the dev's interviews. They're whining about MMOs being dumbed down and that an MMO should focus on journey... the kind of stuff which is not surprising to read on MMO-champion forums, but from a lead dev, it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

[BenBos]

1.5 million at launch

Under 500k after 6 months.

Going free to play within 12 months.

btw: these will be the official figures, the real number after 6 months will be under 250k subs.

After free to play the PR talk will be about 300% fake profit growth and 200% more players.


As usual.

[Deleted]

That is silly question. How could it affect wow being subscription based? Wow is subscription based as well, so this game being same does not bring any pressure to Blizzard. But if it were not subscription based, then Blizzard would have pressure.

[Gohzerlock]

I think ESO thinks they have a huge untapped market in console mmos, if the game looked better and didn't have elder scrolls combat I might even think they could pull it off. I think the flat 15$/month is a pretty substantial demand, WOW seems to get away with it because it's a legacy mmo. League of legends tried and fell kinda flat but i'd guess that the feeling is that things will be easier and there will be less hurdles on the new generation consoles.

tldr They should have done a low cost for the game and a free month then went the way of an annual season pass with micro transactions here and there. It seems kinda ridiculous to charge full price for a game you'll have to start paying right off the bat to play on a console, but things could work very different on consoles compared to a PC market.

Also, this game should be better. Skyrim was bug ridden, so I guess I should expect the same with this.. but skyrim at least looked a lot better.

[Granyala]

Ofc he is, just read the dev's interviews. They're whining about MMOs being dumbed down and that an MMO should focus on journey... the kind of stuff which is not surprising to read on MMO-champion forums, but from a lead dev, it makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up.

Well I'd agree with the fact that MMO communities are a tiny bit too fixated on endgame content at the expense of everything else (admit it, leveling in WoW is a horrible experience. As a caster, Dungeon-mobs die so fast you don't even get more than an instant spell off. <_<).

As I said: I'm sure Wildstar will find its niche of happy fans. Every game does.
But people thinking that it'll appeal to the masses in 2013 are in for a rude awakening.

[Awe]

1.5 million at launch

Under 500k after 6 months.

Going free to play within 12 months.

btw: these will be the official figures, the real number after 6 months will be under 250k subs.

After free to play the PR talk will be about 300% fake profit growth and 200% more players.


As usual.

Oh, see let me guess ahead here Mr. BlizzardBos. The only company on the MMO market which does not sugercoat PR releases ("MoP enormous success!") posting real numbers ("Those sub loses are only China!") and fake profit growth ("More money from WoW this year! [despite the fact that it comes from surge of box sales])" is Blizzard and its fanboys? OK. I get the message. As usual.

[Airwaves]

1.5 million at launch

Under 500k after 6 months.

Going free to play within 12 months.

btw: these will be the official figures, the real number after 6 months will be under 250k subs.

After free to play the PR talk will be about 300% fake profit growth and 200% more players.


As usual.

Nice numbers!... That you just pulled out your ass lol.

[Fayth]

Nice numbers!... That you just pulled out your ass lol.

You do not say?

Anyways might sub for one month and see how it works out. If it does not please me, like SWTOR and GW 2 did not, I just unsub.
And yes I will play WoW at the same time!

[Granyala]

Nice numbers!... That you just pulled out your ass lol.

Ooh I don't know... going with past experiences, I don't think his predictions are too unrealistic.

[Solidito]

the combat is like skyrim/oblivion/morrowind

how did you "stomach" those if you hate the exact same combat in TESO lol
make some sense people, christ

Well i said i'm going to play eso for the lore, so after me saying that i'm pretty sure your simple mind can work out why i played the other elder scroll games.

And to note, i said worst combat in an 'mmo', it's the same as skyrim etc but they're not mmos.

[shibolena]

WoW sucks according to people who know what there talking about. So does blizzard as a company. It's been a long time, and they will continue to lose subs(onto the new exp). years ago, ESO wouldn't have stood a chance. Now though, the time is ripe. Anyone could kill wow, and I think ESO will be the game(wildstar sucks.) Being sub-based is why and important. Also appealing to consoles as people have said. People who play wow only do so because there have been no alterantives with a sub model. Free to play is done. Eveyone's sick of it. And ESO has the gameplay, lore, and story that WoW had when it launched. That's very important. Oh, and star wars "lore" sucks ass. The expanded universe has always been one of the most embarssing things ever put to print.

And if ESO can't call WoW, it is a "failure". A failure of the marketing, the game itself, who knows. But WoW is dead. Like I said, the people still playing it(like me) are just waiting for something better to come along and prove it's better via its sub numbers, which like I said, with how bad people who know what there talking about say WoW sucks with myst, should be easy they can do it in there sleep. WoW will drop to 2 million, while ESO will climb to 3 million and maybe beyond if there good enough.

[Deleted]

WoW will drop to 2 million, while ESO will climb to 3 million and maybe beyond if there good enough.

Lol. WoW won't go below even 5 million subscribers for at least another expansion.

[Granyala]

waiting for something better to come along and prove it's better via its sub numbers

WoW's extreme subs were a fluke, a freak accident.
A happy coincidence perpetuated by multiple things outside of Blizzards control.
It will not be repeated. It CANNOT be repeated.

Seeing a game as a failure, because of some weird and artificial metric is absurd.
EvE-Online has what 60.000 active players?
Go ask them about how much a "failure" their game is.

[Pann]

Lol. WoW won't go below even 5 million subscribers for at least another expansion.

Without knowing how long we have until the next expansion that is not something I would be confident of.

[Toppy]

Honestly, the only thing thats going to kill TES:O is TES:O.

I'm in the beta. Its the worse MMO I've ever played. Worst beta I've ever played (I've been in quite a few). There so very much wrong with TES:O on so many levels that I can't see it doing well. Even the lore is being crapped on, and that should be the selling point.