Heroic Jin'rokh assistance - 10man

[Akkarin]

Good morning,

Our guild had a bit of a late start to raiding this tier, lost a few people over summer, and we've spent a bit of time gearing up new people.
We've finally made our way into heroics, and are working on Jin'rokh heroic at the moment.

Our raid setup is either 2 tanks,3 healers, 5dps, OR 2 healers, and 6 DPS.

Guardian Druid
Prot Warrior
Fire Mage
Shadow Priest
Survival Hunter - 2 of them
Windwalker Monk
Destruction warlock
Resto Shaman
Disc Priest
Holy Paladin

We appear to be handling the Ionization debuff well. We have the hunters deterrence to avoid it, the warlock, monk, mage and shadowpriest all handle their own ionization debuffs with their own cooldowns.
Our healers move out of the puddle and dispel themselves without any issues either.

Our tanks are positioning the boss so that they can stand in the puddles (while not affected by static wound), to up their DPS.

On our tries with 2 healers (the resto shaman and the disc priest), we have the guardian druid and the shadow priest(symbiosis) doing tranquility's during the first storm, and then we save healing tide, rallying cry, demo banner, zen meditation for the second storm.

The problem we encounter is that we rarely make it through the first storm without anyone dead. I think we've had 100+ attempts on him in total and I'd guess that 10% of those tries we've had a full team alive at the end of the first storm.
And on the tries where we do have the whole team alive after the first storm, we end up losing 70% of the raid during the second storm.

We must be getting hit by too many lightning diffusions, right?

Well, we've been scouring through worldoflogs of other guilds, and most of the time, when we compare the damage we take from lightning diffusion with other guilds, we are either at the same level, or even less hits than other guilds that manage to kill it with apparent ease.

We're a bit frustrated, we don't quite know where we are going wrong. If anyone feels bored or feels like helping us our by looking through our logs so see if there are any glaring mistakes, or hints / tips / tricks they would be most appreciated.

Here are our latest logs from last night http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=69465

Thanks, and sure hope someone can help.

[Deleted]

Without looking at logs.. Why not use the stronger healing cd's in the first storm? Like HTT, and use the lesser ones in the 2nd one. That way you survive the first one easier and if someone dies on the 2nd one, it's not as bad as losing it in the first one, since the boss should almost be dead by then.

Avoiding the storms is one thing, you also need to have enough healing throughput alone to survive storms. Also everyone should use personal cds.

Another thing you could think about is do the Ionization of the mage and spriest the normal way by dispelling them, so they can use their dispersion and greater invis / iceblock during the storm.

[Deleted]

Good morning,

Our guild had a bit of a late start to raiding this tier, lost a few people over summer, and we've spent a bit of time gearing up new people.
We've finally made our way into heroics, and are working on Jin'rokh heroic at the moment.

Our raid setup is either 2 tanks,3 healers, 5dps, OR 2 healers, and 6 DPS.

Guardian Druid
Prot Warrior
Fire Mage
Shadow Priest
Survival Hunter - 2 of them
Windwalker Monk
Destruction warlock
Resto Shaman
Disc Priest
Holy Paladin

We appear to be handling the Ionization debuff well. We have the hunters deterrence to avoid it, the warlock, monk, mage and shadowpriest all handle their own ionization debuffs with their own cooldowns.
Our healers move out of the puddle and dispel themselves without any issues either.

Our tanks are positioning the boss so that they can stand in the puddles (while not affected by static wound), to up their DPS.

On our tries with 2 healers (the resto shaman and the disc priest), we have the guardian druid and the shadow priest(symbiosis) doing tranquility's during the first storm, and then we save healing tide, rallying cry, demo banner, zen meditation for the second storm.

The problem we encounter is that we rarely make it through the first storm without anyone dead. I think we've had 100+ attempts on him in total and I'd guess that 10% of those tries we've had a full team alive at the end of the first storm.
And on the tries where we do have the whole team alive after the first storm, we end up losing 70% of the raid during the second storm.

We must be getting hit by too many lightning diffusions, right?

Well, we've been scouring through worldoflogs of other guilds, and most of the time, when we compare the damage we take from lightning diffusion with other guilds, we are either at the same level, or even less hits than other guilds that manage to kill it with apparent ease.

We're a bit frustrated, we don't quite know where we are going wrong. If anyone feels bored or feels like helping us our by looking through our logs so see if there are any glaring mistakes, or hints / tips / tricks they would be most appreciated.

Here are our latest logs from last night http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=69465

Thanks, and sure hope someone can help.

DPS should not be a problem if everyone stays alive, so I would recommend using 3 healers and assigning a spot for everyone to gather on storm phases. It might be hard to dps the boss at that time but that's what we did on our first kills. That way no one out-ranges healers and stays alive much more likely.

Of course lightning balls have to be dodged anyway.

[Akkarin]

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

DPS should not be a problem if everyone stays alive, so I would recommend using 3 healers and assigning a spot for everyone to gather on storm phases. It might be hard to dps the boss at that time but that's what we did on our first kills. That way no one out-ranges healers and stays alive much more likely.

Of course lightning balls have to be dodged anyway.

Where you say "gather", you mean loosely gathered in an area so that AOE heals can still be somewhat effective, whilst still being able to maintain some movement to avoid balls? (as opposed to stacking up tight)

I've seen multiple videos of people doing this, and it looks so easy, but when it comes down to it, if we're all gathered in one area, we seem to get clusterf#¤ked by the lightning balls.
But clearly running around using as much space as possible to avoid stuff isn't working for us, so I'm open to trying to do that again.

[Deleted]

Looking at your logs makes analysis pretty easy.
Try 1: Shaman, Hunter died from Lightning Diffusion (sparks).
Try 2: Priest, Hunter, Shaman died from Lightning Diffusion.
Try 3: Monk, Hunter, Druid died to sparks. Shaman just died at the start of the storm because of focused lightning.
Try 4: Shaman, two Priests, two Hunters.
Try 5: Shaman, Monk, Hunter, Warrior.

Almost all of the deaths during lightning storms were because people didn't dodge sparks. Sometimes you're unlucky, but 3-5 people dying per storm is not unlucky, they simply aren't dodging well enough.

Three healers won't change much for you. Two sparks in short order will always kill people. The only reason you need healers on Jin'Rokh is because the storm does 50k DPS per person. They can't heal someone eating sparks. Three seconds of no healing and a spark will kill anyone but tanks. Not being hit by sparks is personal responsibility, the healers (or the lack of them) aren't the reason people are dying. DPS and tanks have to use their own defensive and healing cooldowns as it is pretty much impossible for healers to use anything but instants.

Where you say "gather", you mean loosely gathered in an area so that AOE heals can still be somewhat effective, whilst still being able to maintain some movement to avoid balls? (as opposed to stacking up tight)

Exactly. Some people have laggy internet, some have speed buffs, so you can't move as a group.

[Deja Thoris]

It's not ideal but save cooldowns you would normally use for the ionisation for the lighning storm.

This means priest dispersion, pally bubble, deterrence, ice block / greater invis and so on. Make sure the priest spends the 15 sec before the storm spirit shelling them. Correct way is for people to not get hit :P

I'm not going to go into logs too much since you need to learn to execute mechanics. Stacking 9 healers won't save you till you can do that but mention the joys of prayer of mending to your disc priest. They barely use this fire and forget spell (great pinging off on the move :P) altho it should be used pretty much on cooldown.

[Valored]

My guild had a wee bit of trouble on this boss for a few hours. We ran a ten man and we ran 3 healers our first kill. However, after the first hour everyone but two of the healers learned how to survive the first Storm but them. They had a problem of getting hit by the balls, which without looking at logs, just by your explanation tells me that many people aren't dodging balls very well.

To counter this we had our members except for a tank or two that could "dance" and avoid balls stand on the back grate. If you only have to worry about balls coming from at most 3 directions and none from behind you, then it minimizes the amount you have to move. Just put everyone on the grate in the back and when balls are coming at them have them strafe side to side.

During the storms, we'd have people use Healthstones and personal CDs if they had them and only one external CD, either tranq, revival, etc. We haven't had any issues since unless it's been a new person in which case we still get a little giggily when they try to stand in the middle and run in circles to avoid the balls.

Survive the storm phase and if your DPS isn't too low, then you should have no issues downing the boss.

[Kalcheus]

If your healers are able to coordinate the dispels of Ionization fine, you might want to have the Hunters not deterrence it and instead have them dispelled outside of the pool. That way they can deterrence during the lightning storm.

[lvlark]

Without looking at logs.. Why not use the stronger healing cd's in the first storm? Like HTT, and use the lesser ones in the 2nd one. That way you survive the first one easier and if someone dies on the 2nd one, it's not as bad as losing it in the first one, since the boss should almost be dead by then.

Avoiding the storms is one thing, you also need to have enough healing throughput alone to survive storms. Also everyone should use personal cds.

Another thing you could think about is do the Ionization of the mage and spriest the normal way by dispelling them, so they can use their dispersion and greater invis / iceblock during the storm.

Pretty much this. If you can handle the ionization without people using too much of their CD's, do so. Every healer should atleast be able to debuff themselves at the start of the debuff and then a dps at the end.

But mainly, you're forgetting to mention two of your shaman CD's that are amazing for this when coupled. Ascendance + Spiritwalker's Grace. Unless he glyphed Chain Heal to have a cooldown on it he can just spam that, without even looking at who he targets, because apart from the first heal it's smart and every bounce counts towards the Ascendance buff. So he can easily use that on the first and HTT on the second, or the other way around if you so desire.

[lizon]

We 2 healed it with a Disc Priest/Holy Pally combo. We just powered through the transitions cause ppl kept getting hit. We used pre-cast SS and a raid cooldown. On my priest I would cast Pain Suppression on myself and use Binding Heal to keep everyone alive. The pally would pop Devo and use HS/HR spam. Have DPS save their damage reduction cooldowns for transition. Ionization is trivial, don't waste your cooldowns on that. A Single PW:S on the person who is getting dispelled with absorb most of the damage.

[Odina]

Though this is not a DPS race per say the faster you kill it the less chance you have to die! Looking at your logs and it looks liek everyone can use a big bump in DPS.

I will only comment on the prot war as it's what I'm comfortable with

1) Make sure they are speced into dragon roar > shock wave on this fight as there are no adds! They can use a DR+BB macro and use them togethere!
2) Have them spec into safeguard and use it with the other tank so when they are off tanking they can keep veng up! Keepign up venge while in the puddle and off tanking is HUGE!
3) Use Shield block allot more .. .Looking at your longest attempt they only cast shiled block 9 times yet shield barrier 19 times. As they are glyphed for HR they should have that inversed! Shield barrier is great for if you mess up and are about to get taged by a spark but should not be spammed on this fight! You can see he is hurting on dps as his shield slam is not hitting close to as hard as it should due to lakcing the S.block uptime needed for HR glyph.

This is our WOL for comparison http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5...?s=2140&e=2389

Looking at your WOL you are poping Hero at the first puddle if I'm not mistaken so we should see everyone poping all there CD's and second potion at this point... yet I don't see any potion use from your prot war, mangobat or healybat!

Another thing make sure everyone has there camera angle set properly for the sparks! I found zooming in a bit and placing it above my toon was best for sparks as zoom in = no clouds in the way of view , above head = see all around you whats comming!

[Deleted]

Is everyone hanging around the same area? I've found in my attempts at Jin'rokh if everyone is hanging around the same area it becomes a lot harder to dodge the stuff that's coming towards you.

This is how we handle it and it works like a charm for us but there are no doubt other different ways that are totally effective:
- I like to put world markers down to split the healers up during the first lightning storm (always seems to be the most difficult one for us) eg. with one puddle filling 1/4 of the room, there's 3/4 of the room leftover that I'll split evenly between the 2/3 healers so that all the healers aren't hanging around one area while the rest of the raid are at the other side. With this method everyone is always within range of another healer and it's felt pretty effective so far.
- We stress that everyone spreads out as best as they can; the more people in one area, the more concentrated the lightning balls are and thus the more difficult they get to dodge
- We also stress that everyone stand still until they see that they have to move to dodge a lightning ball, then it's just a simple side-step. During our tries people tended to be more likely to die during the lightning storm if they were running around like a headless chicken the entire time and it caused them to panic. Have everyone stand still, be calm, and worry about the balls as they see them coming towards you.

[Slak]

The problem we encounter is that we rarely make it through the first storm without anyone dead. I think we've had 100+ attempts on him in total and I'd guess that 10% of those tries we've had a full team alive at the end of the first storm.
And on the tries where we do have the whole team alive after the first storm, we end up losing 70% of the raid during the second storm.

We must be getting hit by too many lightning diffusions, right?

Ensidia fails is a great add on to tell you why people are failing. 5 seconds before storm we stack on the nearest grate on the side of the room, all in tight and pop a healing cd. The lightning balls and and target a player, since we are all stacked they head to where we are, we then move down the grate to the next circle, wait until the next set of balls comes in, then we run out, with a 2nd healign cd. Forget dps during this phase its all about survival. See this post for a picture:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21026744

keep everyone up through the first storm, most of em on the 2nd and burn if dps is good u will only get two storms.

We 3 healed progression kill and now 2 heal it. RNG of balls can still be a problem but stacking worked for us.

[re1gn1te]

Well your first problem is you have hunters. They've been the number one cause of lack of dps this expansion. No but on a serious note you're comparing damg taken after a wipe on the first / second storm to full kills then I don't see the logic there... Also you shouldn't have your hunters wasting deterrence on the debuff. We also have a disc priest and what we do is have three dps run out right after the healers are back from dispelling themselves and get in a triangle formation and get a mass dispel. That way if your hunters get themselves in trouble in the storm phase they can deterrence and walk through lightning. What we also do is all go hang out on a grate, we've found that it makes it allot more simple to dodge the lightning balls and ranged dps can still dps while at the edge of the grate.

The people saying you should only get two pools are clearly not looking at your log at all. Your DPS is low, I've only checked a few out but all your dps should probably be doing more. I know the mage and both hunters should definitely be doing more. Also you have probably the worst tank combination in terms of DPS output. We have a brewmaster monk that is pretty much like having another dps, sometimes I'm the only dps above him and some fights it's impossible to beat him.

But really it comes down to your players just dodging shit and keeping up their dps.

[Valech]

Not sure if posted already but I believe Demobanner won´t have any effect during Storm. Those bolts on the ground cant be debuffed, thus, no damage will be mitigated.

[Shiinji]

They must be a little to close to the boss. During storm just focus on dodging wen you get comfortable just start atking boss while dancing. I would just 3 heal or 2 1/2 heal it.

[steveh]

Don't feel too bad honestly. Before vastly outgearing this fight and having 5 or 6 more heroics down, this stupid fight still killed a lot of those 5/13H type raiders with the groups I run with (10/13H now). Seriously, we could one shot horridon heroic, council heroic, tortos heroic, etc when farming but we'd spend 4 or 5 wipes on this boss because people didn't pay attention to where they were standing. I echo the tips about splitting up your group and having people be loosely in that area for heals and such. What it really comes down to is people figuring out what works for themselves personally. If standing on the grates to see everything coming at them from the front makes people comfortable, do it. If people like to take a quadrant and roam around it, do it. Even telling dps to not dps during that time is helpful. Just survive, get through 2-3 storms and you'll likely win despite lower dps.

[Hayro1]

The problem we encounter is that we rarely make it through the first storm without anyone dead.

Don't DPS while in the storm if you're doing attempts on it, unless X person can effectively DPS and avoid stuff. I can do both, but just to be safe have everyone avoid the stuff, a dead DPS does no DPS. And split your raid, while spread out loosely, do not stack unless -everyone- is capable of avoiding stuff.

[Akkarin]

Thanks for all the useful ideas guys, we appreciated them a lot.

We managed to get him down finally. The "gather up loosely around the grate" idea seemed to help the most. Healers commented that it was nice to be able to have a specific spot to put AOE heals down (rain, priest-shiney-on-floor-stuff, barrier, etc.) and the DPS were also happier being able to dip in and out of the AOE healing whilst dodging the lightning. Ontop of that, we managed to kill it with 1 dps dead after the first storm. Phew!

[adain878]

Don't DPS while in the storm if you're doing attempts on it, unless X person can effectively DPS and avoid stuff. I can do both, but just to be safe have everyone avoid the stuff, a dead DPS does no DPS. And split your raid, while spread out loosely, do not stack unless -everyone- is capable of avoiding stuff.

From my experience character cluster density doesn't really affect the pillar spawns, they always seem equally spread out in each quadrant. Now that doesn't mean you can't be unlucky but my guild has always used the stand on the grate idea.