Why do the Alliance look after the Draenei, Worgen and Gnomes?

[Deleted]

gnomes are the best technicians on Azeroth.

draenai have strong connection to Light, elements, and alien tech. I think they might actually be the strongest Alliance race.

worgen are pretty much vanguards and shock troops of the Alliance armies, but sadly, you won't see this in game.

[Grubjuice]

the Draenei who fled to Outland to escape their Eredar Cousins who followed them there is admittedly a bit like Taiwan and Mainland China.

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Keep in mind that many of the HUMAN characters are also refugees from Lordaeron or other human kingdoms that have fallen-- Stormwind is only one of many that once existed. Why do the Stormwind humans "put up" with them?

very interesting point that is often forgotten!

there are a ton of human refugees littered all around Westfall (though many of those were displaced during the cataclysm, not the Third War)

[TheWindWalker]

Another thing that isn't really being mentioned much here is that you're using the word "Alliance" a bit too much like "Horde."

The Alliance is not the primary caretaker of Gilnean citizens. That's the Night Elves. Their own sovereign government with their own rules and culture. Why do the Night Elves take care of them? Play their intro and level through Night Elf territory. Gilneans are their shock troops now.

Gnomes were taken in by the Dwarves before Cataclysm. Now they're essentially completely independent as a faction and otherwise are highly desired for their technological knowledge and expertise.

Draenei have been self-sufficient since they landed on Azeroth. As far as I remember, they didn't even need the Night Elves for a single accomplishment before presenting themselves to the Alliance as allies. Not just refugees.

[Pachycrocuta]

As has been mentioned, it's Blizzard's non-desire to make any sort of lore advancement for these races. Hell, they even said that the reason they made Pandaren available to both sides was so they could focus on a single race and not have to worry about making compelling story for both races, even though they haven't done that since they added in Blood Elf and Draenei way back in 2006 during the Burning Crusade beta.

That's really the only answer as to why they are still refugees. They couldn't make the gnomes retake Gnomeregan because that would have given the Alliance an extra capitol city, and we can't have imbalance when it comes to Alliance having more than the Horde. And, the gnome capitol is a level 30-something dungeon, and I guess they didn't want to remove a dungeon, even though it has been hated since 2004. Apparently the draenei have fixed the Exodar, but they don't want to fix it in game, because how would that add to the gameplay??? Plus, if they did that, they would have to fix Silvermoon to reduce the whining and tears. And then you have the worgen. Yet another race tossed off on the xenophobic racist night elves and forgotten since their inclusion, their story ending (for the Alliance side) when they get on the boat to Darnassus.

[Grubjuice]

Draenei have been self-sufficient since they landed on Azeroth. As far as I remember, they didn't even need the Night Elves for a single accomplishment before presenting themselves to the Alliance as allies. Not just refugees.

I concur with this characterization

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That's really the only answer as to why they are still refugees. They couldn't make the gnomes retake Gnomeregan because that would have given the Alliance an extra capitol city, and we can't have imbalance when it comes to Alliance having more than the Horde.

they could have easily made Echo Islands a Troll capital, Gnomeragan a Gnome capital, and redesigned the gnomeregan leveling instance to just be a last hold of the leper-gnomes within the capital just as Stockaed is an instance INSIDE stormwind and RFC is an instance INSIDE orgrimmar.

[Cooper]

seriously though that point in Jessickas argument is the weakest not hardly relevant to the main question she is asking which is why they don't REBUILD, and the fact your argument focused on that point shows you focused on the least important part of the OP's premise

No, the main question she is asking is:

What I want to ask is why the Alliance bother looking after these refugees races?

And her premise is built entirely on the idea that they are worthless (just because they aren't in possession of their original homelands) and the Alliance shouldn't be bothering with them. That is why the argument is inherently racist.

Besides, they HAVE rebuilt. The Worgen resettled in Darnassus, the Gnomes in Ironforge and then New Tinkertown, and the Draenei don't have to resettle because they have the Exodar and Azuremyst Isle, which work fine as homes.

[Miatog]

The Gnomes were part of the Alliance when it was first formed back in the Second War. They missed out on the Third cause, well, everyone was still mostly in a 'look after your own' mentality that had severed Azeroth up till that point. They had to deal with stuff going on in the capital and we all know how that turned out. So they belong there without a single doubt.

The Draenei and Worgen though...they were both brought in through the Night Elves. The Worgen is the Night Elves cleaning up a mess they view as their own. (So nice of them to come to the aid of strangers when they wouldn't help the Tauren in their darkest hour... Another topic I'm sorry, moving on.) The Draenei were brought in cause the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They've been 'standing' against the Burning Legion longer than the Night Elves have, so after some family mix ups were cleared the Night Elves brought the Draenei into the Alliance to help fight the demons.

So with this in mind, the real question, why are the Night Elves part of the Alliance? Considering that they culture is far closer to that of the Orcs and Tauren they're a better fit for the Horde. Well the reason the Night Elves are in the Alliance, is because Grom got played back in Ashenvale and killed Cenarius. Now it's my personal opinion that Cenarius would forgive Grom given Grom's actions after that and Grom's regret for killing the demigod, but the Night Elves are, understandably, holding a grudge.

So what this all means, is that half the races in the Alliance, are there, ultimately, because of Grom.

[Grubjuice]

No, the main question she is asking is:



And her premise is built entirely on the idea that they are worthless (just because they aren't in possession of their original homelands) and the Alliance shouldn't be bothering with them. That is why the argument is inherently racist.

Besides, they HAVE rebuilt. The Worgen resettled in Darnassus, the Gnomes in Ironforge and then New Tinkertown, and the Draenei don't have to resettle because they have the Exodar and Azuremyst Isle, which work fine as homes.

unfortunately you seem to be missing of the context of the conversation that prompted this thread.

when jessicka is asking "What I want to ask is why the Alliance bother looking after these refugees races?" what she is actually asking is "Why aren't the alliance races trying harder to encourage the Gnomes and Gilneans to leave Darnassus and Stormwind respectively and rebuild new homelands the way the Goblins and Trolls have."

I admit that Jessicka worded her OP poorly, and did not explain the context of the other thread she was coming from.

[Cooper]

Yeah, the Night Elves sure love what the Horde has been doing to Ashenvale since Vanilla.

The idea that the Night Elves, pretty much the first advanced civilization to develop on Azeroth, fit into the "tribal" civilization of the Horde, is pure wishful thinking, even before getting into the geo-politics of everything.

[Pachycrocuta]

unfortunately you seem to be missing of the context of the conversation that prompted this thread.

when jessicka is asking "What I want to ask is why the Alliance bother looking after these refugees races?" what she is actually asking is "Why aren't the alliance races trying harder to encourage the Gnomes and Gilneans to leave Darnassus and Stormwind respectively and rebuild new homelands the way the Goblins and Trolls have."

I admit that Jessicka worded her OP poorly, and did not explain the context of the other thread she was coming from.

How the hell do you know exactly what the OP was trying to say? Are you the OP? You are just guessing at what she meant.

[Grubjuice]

well the Night Elves had no particulat reason to like the Orcs or the Humans,
the Night elves agreed to work with the Orcs and the Humans to stop Archimonde

but since the orcs where still pushing into ashenvale even after the destuction of Archimonde and the world tree they decided the Orcs were the greater threat than the humans (who were down in Dustwallow Marsh/Theramore, no where near their ancestral territory) so the Night Elves decided that since isolation was no longer an option they should join the alliance to help them buffer against the Orcs

But i don't think the Night Elves *wanted* to join a faction. They simply had no choice.

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How the hell do you know exactly what the OP was trying to say? Are you the OP? You are just guessing at what she meant.

i was part of the conversation in the other thread

[Deleted]

So, why do the Night Elves, Dwarves and Humans put up with it? The Gnomes have done little more than retake the surface of Gnomeregan and done nothing with it to advance from there. Indeed they seem to struggle to keep what they have. The Worgen are confined to a tree at the northern edge of Darnassus doing precisely nothing whatsoever, while the Draenei are still living out of the hull of a crashed spaceship. They can't look after themselves, so what exactly are they offering as part of an Alliance in return for the protection they're being given?

You got it all wrong. The gnomes moved from a refugee position to actually have a land to call home and bases all over the world (and Outland). The Worgen are fighting to get Gilneas back and established cities in Felwood and Blasted Lands. The Draenei never were refugees, don't know what gave you that idea, they pretty much conquered Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles and established their nation there, with the repaired Exodar as its center.

[Grubjuice]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...h-Elves/page16

this is the page where Jessicka started this conversation

[Cooper]

unfortunately you seem to be missing of the context of the conversation that prompted this thread.

when jessicka is asking "What I want to ask is why the Alliance bother looking after these refugees races?" what she is actually asking is "Why aren't the alliance races trying harder to encourage the Gnomes and Gilneans to leave Darnassus and Stormwind respectively and rebuild new homelands the way the Goblins and Trolls have."

I admit that Jessicka worded her OP poorly, and did not explain the context of the other thread she was coming from.

You cannot rationally equate those two questions. They are entirely different. It's not a question of poor wording, or context, they are completely separate thoughts entirely. One is "Why doesn't the Alliance help them retake their homes?" The other one, the one the OP actually asked, is "Why are these races even allowed in the Alliance at all?"

[Grubjuice]

You got it all wrong. The gnomes moved from a refugee position to actually have a land to call home and bases all over the world (and Outland).

those are Steamwheedle Cartle habitations, The Gnomes and Goblins built them together and they are neutral (not alliance).

The Worgen are fighting to get Gilneas back and established cities in Felwood and Blasted Lands. The Draenei never were refugees, don't know what gave you that idea, they pretty much conquered Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles and established their nation there, with the repaired Exodar as its center.

These two points are both true.

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You cannot rationally equate those two questions. They are entirely different. It's not a question of poor wording, or context, they are completely separate thoughts entirely. One is "Why doesn't the Alliance help them retake their homes?" The other one, the one the OP actually asked, is "Why are these races even allowed in the Alliance at all?"

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...h-Elves/page16

seriously read this page

it is ENTIRELY a matter of context.

[Cooper]

those are Steamwheedle Cartle habitations, The Gnomes and Goblins built them together and they are neutral (not alliance).



These two points are both true.

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http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...h-Elves/page16

seriously read this page

it is ENTIRELY a matter of context.

Alright. You keep on white-knighting for her. Who cares about what she actually wrote when you can just project what you want the OP to say anyway?

[Aquamonkey]

Alliance:
Humans, Night Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Draenei, and the savage Worgen make up the illustrious Alliance. Proud and noble, courageous and wise, these races work together to preserve order in Azeroth. The Alliance is driven by honor and tradition. Its rulers are champions of justice, hope, knowledge, and faith.

In a time when chaos and uncertainty reign, the Alliance remains steadfast in its determination to bring light to the darkest corners of the world.
--Darkmoon Faire Cataclysm Promotion: Fortune card

The noble races of the Alliance are bound together by proud traditions of nobility, honor, faith, justice, and sacrifice. The many different Alliance people all contribute their technical, arcane, and spiritual wisdom toward the goal of a peaceful and just world. Take up their banner to represent the high ideals of the Alliance throughout Azeroth and beyond. For the Allliance!
--Pandaren choosing screen

[Grubjuice]

Alright. You keep on white-knighting for her. Who cares about what she actually wrote when you can just project what you want the OP to say anyway?

i am not white knighting for her, i don;t even agree with her,
what i am saying is YOU are wrong

I'm also not sure 'exiles clinging to the Alliance' is a great theme, it's basically the Pandaren, Worgen, Gnomes and Draenei all over again, which is what's absolutely hamstringing their development as factions. For one thing, it's become a bit of a tired cliche. For another, exiles and refugees will simply never have enough clout to really have any justification in real plot developments and that's why only the Night Elves and Dwarves really show any influence in what happens blue side, and why when anything does happen, Varian calls them up to help - there's just no point calling up those other races because they just don't have the infrastructure to do anything useful and they're too busy dealing with their own internal issues to be able to offer anything of real significance anyway without asking where the hell did this come from, aren't they refugees and exiles with a ton of internal issues? Which is precisely why we end up with High Elves of Dalaran helping anyway because they're established, homed and able to offer something useful.

Lorewise the high elves have nothing of value, but their own lives, heck this is what blizzard wrote of them

No they don't need a uniqe model, because their situation is exactly the same as the pandaren. You want high elves and want to avoid recycled content qq, no matter what you do it will happen regardless, blood and high elves are the same people after all. Just endure it and move on.

You want to make high elves into something that they simply aren't, they are refugees, have no real home anymore,are splintered. Should they become playable blizzard shouldn't retcon the entirety of their established lore, instead they should work with it.

But is unnecessary, Pandaren made sure of that.

the draenei and the gnomes are also exiled from their homelands. that's what jessicka meant.
The Goblins have reformed Azshara but they don't have a faction capital there (no banks, no auction houses, no complete set of profession and class trainers)
the Trolls have retaken the Echo Islands but they also don't have a faction capital there (no banks, no auction houses, no complete set of profession and class trainers)
the Trolls are basically in the same position as the Gnomes, they have 'retaken' a part of their home territory, but only enough of it to have a starting zone, not a capital. The Gilneans and Goblins are both refugee nation (although the goblins have built up Azshara really fast, i won't deny that)

the only true faction capitals in the game are:
Orgrimmar
Undercity
Thunder Bluff
Silvermoon

Stormwind
Ironforge
Darnassus
Exodar
Bilgwater harbor is not a capital (Although in the future it could be), the Echo Islands are not a capital.

Yup, this. The Gnomes still haven't retaken Gnomeregan, and the Draenei still occupy a crashed spaceship.

They are considered 'homes' though, the Gnome's "home" is within a section of Ironforge, the Worgen's "home" is a tree in Darnassus. I can only guess that Azshara and the Islands lack those facilities because the Alliance QQ would be incredible, and fully justified.

frankly i would love so see Gnomeregan, Gilneas, Bilgwater Harbor and the Echo Islands all turned into capitals for the four refugee races.

I think the Trolls position vis-a-vis the echo islands is about the same the Gnomes position in the Echo Islands, at best they both have new starting areas but they haven't exactly established capitals in either. the Darkspear are still in Orgrimmar and the Gnomes are still in Ironforge.

More than that, they need it if they're going to be developed further - less true for the Goblins and Darkspear since we see a lot of them already (oddly the Horde refugees, right?) - but for their own faction's advancement and usefulness in the story of the game, the Worgen, Draenei and Gnomes need to sort their shit, rebuild and start contributing instead of hiding behind the Alliance banner for protection. They simply can't do anything, and can't be shown to be doing anything while that's the case; otherwise it's just if you can do this, how come you don't have homes to go to?

The Gnomes have Gnomeregan's surface, but it's still just a heavily militarised staging post, nothing more than that.

Which was taken back by a military operation led by the Gnomish nation and their king, the High Tinker Mekkatorque.

Once again, the High Elves are individuals inside each nation of the Alliance, with no organization or a political leadership. The Silver Covenant is not a High Elf organization, it's just one branch of the military forces of Kirin Tor.

Okay, so they barely have enough of an army or organisation to take back their own home. That's hardly a Kingdom; it's just a faction within Ironforge.

This is context

[polskifootballer]

the draenei can handle themselves i mean by now they have more numbers than in tbc and whos gonna win in a fight some little orcs or a hulking draenei who could crush an orc under his hoof

[Sierra85]

If an alien race landed on azeroth and had space technology etc, why wouldn't the alliance try to sign them up to their alliance? better to have the draenei's on your side than let the horde get a hold of them or let them be neutral