Terribly disappointed by the game

[Yizu]

Havent played since feb '12 and there are 2 things i really really really miss on the game

- Huttball (Best BG everrrrr)
- Smuggler/Operative healing (I really liked the energy management mechanic, good burst healing followed by low energy low regen youre screwed. IMO more fun i had than any wow healing class atm)

Questing was good but they shouldve kept the cutscenes on class main story lines.

[Beechnut]

All valid points. Sorry you didn't like it. If you don't enjoy it then don't play the game =)

[May90]

The MMO genre as a whole is not for you. That's about as blunt as I can put it. And that is totally fine. RPGs have a lot more depth and variety as they have completely different design goals.

I guess, this kind of wraps it up. It was my mistake to post it on MMO forums in the first place.

[Kelimbror]

I guess, this kind of wraps it up. It was my mistake to post it on MMO forums in the first place.

This wasn't intended as an insult, so please don't take it as such. That's why I said it is totally fine for you to feel that way, but it's just not going to be a fair criticism as it is an apples to oranges scenario. Trust me, we would have all loved for this to be KotOR 3, but it's not.

People expecting heavy RPG in an MMO are always going to be unhappy. I really think you should give a different story a try, but without being a subscriber all of those grindy, MMO standard side quests are going to be mandatory. You aren't alone in feeling that it ruins a lot of fun in the game. I've never managed to level another character simply because of how tedious it felt.

Shame too as the class stories are really well done in my opinion. The closest KotOR story experience you can have is playing the Jedi Knight followed by the Sith Warrior. Maybe just give those a shot and see if you can power through the tedious design of MMOs. It just sounds like all of the tenets of MMO design (grinds, treadmills, etc...things to keep you playing longer) are things that you don't personally like.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not fault of the game.

[May90]

This wasn't intended as an insult, so please don't take it as such. That's why I said it is totally fine for you to feel that way, but it's just not going to be a fair criticism as it is an apples to oranges scenario. Trust me, we would have all loved for this to be KotOR 3, but it's not.

People expecting heavy RPG in an MMO are always going to be unhappy. I really think you should give a different story a try, but without being a subscriber all of those grindy, MMO standard side quests are going to be mandatory. You aren't alone in feeling that it ruins a lot of fun in the game. I've never managed to level another character simply because of how tedious it felt.

Shame too as the class stories are really well done in my opinion. The closest KotOR story experience you can have is playing the Jedi Knight followed by the Sith Warrior. Maybe just give those a shot and see if you can power through the tedious design of MMOs. It just sounds like all of the tenets of MMO design (grinds, treadmills, etc...things to keep you playing longer) are things that you don't personally like.

There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not fault of the game.

No, I understand what you meant. It's just that, really, opinion on the game, even more, it's perception depends heavily on a background of a player.

If I tell WoW player with 6 year of heavy raiding that SWTOR has a lot of quests like "Kill 10 bad guys", he will probably say, "Tell me something I don't know". This fact won't mean that the quest system is flawed for him, as he has lived deeply in this system for many years and, even if initially didn't like this system, he just got used to it eventually.
If I tell about this system someone who has never played anything other than heavily story-based single RPGs, such as Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age and so on, his reaction will probably be entirely different, "What?! Come on. Did they go completely crazy? What is the point of playing this game then?".
If I tell about it to someone who has never played computer games whatsoever, he would say, "Err... Okay, I guess. What else does this game have?".
Finally, if I tell about it to Sean Plott, he will come up with some joke that makes this system look funny and great at the same time, no matter what the fuzz is about.

I created this thread on MMO forums, which means that people here spend a lot of time on different MMOs, and some, probably, don't play single games at all (I know such people). So the standards I got used to playing single RPGs since 1993 or so will be different for people here. And "Kill 10 bad guys" quests seem completely normal to these people, while, say, unpredictable flow of character's story does not matter that much. I don't say that your, guys, standards are worse or better than mine, they are just different. So there is no point speaking of how better would this game be were it closer to KotOR, as people here are not used to such comparison and would compare the game better to WoW, Rift, DDO, etc.

I agree with you, by the way, that the class stories are good (those that I watched on Youtube and even Trooper I'm playing). Now, if the game all the time was so much fun as these short conversations and cutscenes, this game would be amazing. I think, if they removed all the grind elements from the game, it would be very good, maybe even compared to KotOR 2 to some extent.

---

Anyway, I really miss these "Oh, shit!" moments that I encountered in all other Bioware games so far. When I found out that my character in KotOR was Revan... When in Dragon Age I watched Ostagar being destroyed and Loghain betraying the king and moving the army away... And, the strongest one, when I found out who the Collectors in Mass Effect 2 actually were... These were the moments for which solely these games were worth playing! And I have yet to encounter anything any close to this in SWTOR. Hell, not only in SWTOR, but in any non-Bioware game as well! All these Fallout, Elder's Scrolls, even Deus Ex series are so low story-wise as compared to Bioware RPG... That's why I'm so terribly disappointed. I awaited one more story-based RPG masterpiece and found only a WoW clone.

Speaking of which, I still haven't played Neverwinter Nights. Due to the lack of KotOR-like RPGs on the market right now, maybe I should spend a few months on these series...

[Kelimbror]

I agree with you, by the way, that the class stories are good (those that I watched on Youtube and even Trooper I'm playing). Now, if the game all the time was so much fun as these short conversations and cutscenes, this game would be amazing. I think, if they removed all the grind elements from the game, it would be very good, maybe even compared to KotOR 2 to some extent.

Actually a lot of people have echoed this sentiment. I think a lot of people would actually pay for the ability to level characters and skip all of the side quests. Unfortunately MMOs can't really be designed that way. The only logistical way around it would be to sell 1000% Story Mission XP Boosts or something ridiculous.

Anyway, I really miss these "Oh, shit!" moments that I encountered in all other Bioware games so far.

There are some moments like that, but primarily the climax of the Agent story. It's just not as weighty because you spend so much time doing other things.

Good thing is that the game is free. You can hop on every month or so and knock out a couple of levels and some class story. And don't lie, you know swinging a saber around or going nuts with a rifle every now and then makes you feel awesome because it's Star Wars.

[thewallofsleep]

I don't disagree with your points but you're about a year and a half late here. The major problems with this game have been highly publicized since it launched and they've had plenty of time to address these issues. Its a bummer that you aren't enjoying the game (I didn't like it either), but you really should have know what you were getting into.

[WarpedAcorn]

Speaking of which, I still haven't played Neverwinter Nights. Due to the lack of KotOR-like RPGs on the market right now, maybe I should spend a few months on these series...

I really enjoyed Neverwinter Nights 2, but didn't quite enjoy the first NWN due to the small group and lack of personality. I felt like NWN 2's cast had a lot more character. The story was also super generic, but was also strangely intriguing and well done. It had a little bit of everything, even Keep management (which is something I personally LOVE). Even the Expansion was well done, and I had a lot of fun with it.


That being said, MMORPG's simply CAN NOT have the story you are looking for specifically because of the MMO part. In single player games, you are the protagonist and single greatest entity in the universe. In MMO's, every player has to be on an even footing. So right off the bat you can't have someone who is supremely awesome or becomes the Emperor. They just can't tell a story like that due to the genre of MMORPG's.

Now, on the flip side, you can get in with an RP group and actually make up your own living stories and interact with their's. That's always an option. But MMORPG's are kinda like playing in the Living Greyhawk world vs. a standard D&D game with your friends. Living Greyhawk, due to players representing different areas based on their real geographical location, have to operate under unified rules. No one can be the reincarnation of Vecna or whatnot. Everything is mundane to preserve a balance of the story and the lore of the world.

Having said that, SWTOR still has some pretty good "OH SHIT" moments. None of those really happen with the Trooper since the story gets very stale after Chapter 1. The most interesting thing from a lore perspective is that all the stories do tie in to one another. If you want to enjoy a good story, try another one of the classes. If the gameplay mechanics are frustratingly annoying to you, definitely steer clear and maybe just watch some YouTubes or read a synopsis.

[RoninaThorstone]

I guess, this kind of wraps it up. It was my mistake to post it on MMO forums in the first place.

Your mistake, indeed!

[May90]

I really enjoyed Neverwinter Nights 2, but didn't quite enjoy the first NWN due to the small group and lack of personality. I felt like NWN 2's cast had a lot more character. The story was also super generic, but was also strangely intriguing and well done. It had a little bit of everything, even Keep management (which is something I personally LOVE). Even the Expansion was well done, and I had a lot of fun with it.

Interesting. I think I'll check the game out then. From videos on Youtube, this game looks very much like KotOR, only in Fantasy world.

It's very sad that there are few games with such incredible stories. Actually, I don't know a single non-Bioware game with such an excellent story, characters, conversations that I would want to replay over and over. Well, Deus Ex: HR was quite amazing, and Kingdoms of Amalur isn't bad too (by the way, the best combat system I've ever seen in RPG), but something is missing in them, something that makes you really care for the characters and protagonist. I've never finished Baldur's Gate and haven't tried Planescape Torment: these games were just unbelievably amazing in their time, but I simply couldn't get over such outdated graphics and just enjoy the games.
Maybe, if I played them back when they were released, it would be different now. I guess, if I'd missed KotOR back in 2004, today it would be hard for me to play that game too.

I hoped that SWTOR would be the next such game which I would replay multiple times, trying different choices, different planet order, different love interests... But, unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be the case. And, since they will probably never release KotOR 3 now (simply because they continued the lore in such a way that only SWTOR 2 can be released later), I will have to replay KotOR 1 and 2 from time to time and try to forget that there was something released after that. Just the same way I like Warcraft 3 and simply imagine that WoW has never happened.

But, too much ranting from me... The gaming world has changed, so no need to continue the "Oh the times, oh the customs" mode.

That being said, MMORPG's simply CAN NOT have the story you are looking for specifically because of the MMO part. In single player games, you are the protagonist and single greatest entity in the universe. In MMO's, every player has to be on an even footing. So right off the bat you can't have someone who is supremely awesome or becomes the Emperor. They just can't tell a story like that due to the genre of MMORPG's.

I don't see how this may prevent the game from having a story on the same level as in single player games. You don't need to make a protagonist "Just one more Chuck Norris" to make an exciting story.
Though, they still make it. Playing Trooper, I feel like I am nearly as powerful as the Emperor. I come to a planet, and everyone is aware of my reputation and claims that I'm the only one who can save the Galaxy... And this is not even a Jedi class.

[Pantelija]

You liked getting 0 content updates for 6/9 months? I think you are alone in that.

A day too late to reply, but what the hell are you talking about?

They were pushing out content at alarming rate not Blizzarding way out (content patches last for 6 months and higher), alot of people resented Bioware because they were pushing content patches instead of focusing to solve existing problems within the game which caused people to quit it in the first place.

[Kelimbror]

They were pushing out content at alarming rate

Umm..what? What SWTOR were you playing? I was playing the one that went without new content for half a year coupled with tons of problems and system filler patches that didn't actually solve all of the problems which ultimately resulted in me unsubbing to what would still be my MMO of choice.

That period of disgrace made me disenchanted with the game overall and it was irrepairable damage as they won't see the same amount of money from me and the first 3-6 months I subbed for years now.

[RoninaThorstone]

A day too late to reply, but what the hell are you talking about?

They were pushing out content at alarming rate not Blizzarding way out (content patches last for 6 months and higher), alot of people resented Bioware because they were pushing content patches instead of focusing to solve existing problems within the game which caused people to quit it in the first place.

??? do you not remember the content lull after patch 1.2? It lasted the entire summer. We got a 2 hour easter egg hunt and then finally, at the start of the fall we got a new battleground.

[WarpedAcorn]

I don't see how this may prevent the game from having a story on the same level as in single player games. You don't need to make a protagonist "Just one more Chuck Norris" to make an exciting story.

This is true, and I would still argue that SWTOR's storylines are better than the majority of games on the market right now. But the fact is that you can't have players that powerful in an MMORPG because there needs to be a reason for them to band together to fight things. There is a reason Revan (the player in KOTOR) is a boss that requires multiple players to take on in SWTOR. Revan is the guy that is lightyears ahead of the players and no one can beat him on their own. You need a team to face him. In MMORPG's, you aren't one of the most powerful beings in the universe, but you are an uberman. Single player games typically put you as being the guy a tier or 2 above ubermen.

I still say try out the Jedi Knight or Imperial Agent storyline (Sith Warrior is my dark horse favorite though). Jedi Knight, as previously mentioned, is a KOTOR 3 storyline. But you might get a kick out of seeing things from the Imperial side, so Sith Warrior is another good option. Sith Warrior had the most satisfying ending for me, and a decent couple of twists. Jedi Knight was mostly predictable, but had a couple of nice surprises as well. Honestly, outside of Trooper, Bounty Hunter, and Smuggler, I enjoyed all the stories immensely.

[Pantelija]

Umm..what? What SWTOR were you playing? I was playing the one that went without new content for half a year coupled with tons of problems and system filler patches that didn't actually solve all of the problems which ultimately resulted in me unsubbing to what would still be my MMO of choice.

1.2 was released on April 12 and is considered big content patch, 1.1 rise of the rakhgouls was on January 13 and you had small patches between them that added some things to the game

So unless you were playing SWTOR in different reality/universe from rest of us where 6 months stands for different time period stop pulling numbers out of your behind.

Content patches were not a problem for/to SWTOR downfall.

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??? do you not remember the content lull after patch 1.2? It lasted the entire summer. We got a 2 hour easter egg hunt and then finally, at the start of the fall we got a new battleground.

This may sound as a shock to you but majority of people left the game BEFORE the June/July 2012 not after they endured "9 months of no content patch deprivation"

[RoninaThorstone]

1.2 was released on April 12 and is considered big content patch, 1.1 rise of the rakhgouls was on January 13 and you had small patches between them that added some things to the game

So unless you were playing SWTOR in different reality/universe from rest of us where 6 months stands for different time period stop pulling numbers out of your behind.

Content patches were not a problem for/to SWTOR downfall.

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This may sound as a shock to you but majority of people left the game BEFORE the June/July 2012 not after they endured "9 months of no content patch deprivation"

Did you not read what I was responding to in the first place? The person was talking about how they preferred swtor while it was a subscription game. It was a subscription game for longer than patch 1.2. Just because you quit around then and weren't there for the 15 dollars a month for NOTHING in return for half a year doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Your post is completely irrelevant.

[Kelimbror]

1.2 was released on April 12 and is considered big content patch, 1.1 rise of the rakhgouls was on January 13 and you had small patches between them that added some things to the game

...you're trying to argue that the first two patches (which were still 3 months apart) are proof of rapid content additions? I guess you are forgetting about the time between 1.2 and the next content patch 1.4, which were almost 6 months apart....which is what Bard was just telling you about.

So unless you were playing SWTOR in different reality/universe from rest of us where 6 months stands for different time period stop pulling numbers out of your behind.

Oh you're so cute. Check the time between 1.2 (content patch) and 1.4 (content patch) like I already said. Being insulting doesn't magically make you right.

[Pantelija]

Did you not read what I was responding to in the first place? The person was talking about how they preferred swtor while it was a subscription game. It was a subscription game for longer than patch 1.2. Just because you quit around then and weren't there for the 15 dollars a month for NOTHING in return for half a year doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Your post is completely irrelevant.

Are you pulling my leg ? Discussion was that game went to shit because someone claimed that there were no content patches for 6 to 9 months.

I really hope you arent arguing for the sake of argument...

- - - Updated - - -

...you're trying to argue that the first two patches (which were still 3 months apart) are proof of rapid content additions? I guess you are forgetting about the time between 1.2 and the next content patch 1.4, which were almost 6 months apart....which is what Bard was just telling you about.


Oh you're so cute. Check the time between 1.2 (content patch) and 1.4 (content patch) like I already said. Being insulting doesn't magically make you right.

This may sound as a shock to you but majority of people left the game BEFORE the June/July 2012 not after they endured "9 months of no content patch deprivation"

Are you seriously implying or even claiming that SWTOR population and game in general went to hell because of content void between 1.2 and 1.4 ?

[RoninaThorstone]

Are you pulling my leg ? Discussion was that game went to shit because someone claimed that there were no content patches for 6 to 9 months.

I really hope you arent arguing for the sake of argument...

Um... Are you serious? Go back and read. you know what? I don't trust you enough to go read.

I had actually liked SWTOR before it went FTP

You liked getting 0 content updates for 6/9 months? I think you are alone in that.

A day too late to reply, but what the hell are you talking about?

They were pushing out content at alarming rate not Blizzarding way out (content patches last for 6 months and higher), alot of people resented Bioware because they were pushing content patches instead of focusing to solve existing problems within the game which caused people to quit it in the first place.

No where in that is there anyone saying "the game went to shit" or that the games "shittiness" has to do with content cadence.

[Forsedar]

Closing thread. This has gone too far. I don't know why I left it for so long.