"If you can't afford to tip then you can't afford to eat out"

[NYC17]

Except it being the norm is not a reason why i should tip for service i dont find worthy of tipping.
The server IS going to make money off me in the sense that he is on the fucking job - he is going to make LESS money off me because i dont tip.

And frankly i really dont give a shit about service that much. I need a waiter to come to the table and take my order - then he delivers it to the chefs who actually make the food and then the waiter brings it - if multiple courses then to pick up empty plates too. Occasionally I will need something more than what I ordered to begin with at which point i just make a waiter notice me by a raised hand when they walk by. And thats pretty much the only thing i need a waiter for.

Im not sure what exactly you are doing for me that i should tip.

It being the norm is not a reason you feel you should tip. Again, do what you want. Tip or don't. Whining about not receiving the same level of service when you don't participate in the norm that perpetuates a certain level of service is pretty useless.

[Gudder]

In my land tips are not expected to be given unless you pay for the lady of the night. Even she does not expect the tip however if you like to do the real naughties then a tip is must. It is silly to tip for the foods though. Very silly

[NYC17]

How about: never received a refill, food was delivered cold/late, didn't get a check for 20 minutes, had to flag another server down for silverware, stuff like that.

IMO, that qualifies as being neglected. I've seen it happen quite a few times, and there is no reason for it other than money. Since it's clearly established by our industry insider that tips are the motivation for service, obviously a bigger check commands better service.

*Multiple industry "insiders". If you're going to be a snark, do so accurately.

[Tinykong]

*Multiple industry "insiders". If you're going to be a snark, do so accurately.

I don't spend as much time in here as you have, so maybe I missed it, but the only person presenting themselves as such was you.

"Years."

[NYC17]

I don't spend as much time in here as you have, so maybe I missed it, but the only person presenting themselves as such was you.

There have been multiple people in this thread who have discussed their experience, but since you don't same to read much of anything beyond your own bullshit, it's understandable how you may have missed it.

Also, is "spending time" on a message board an actual thing? I was under the impression you could post at will, especially when it takes very little effort provide a counterargument to someone as uninformed as yourself.

[Catta]

It being the norm is not a reason you feel you should tip. Again, do what you want. Tip or don't. Whining about not receiving the same level of service when you don't participate in the norm that perpetuates a certain level of service is pretty useless.

Im not whining. Im asking why i should tip. The answer seems to be "because its the norm" which is a piss poor reason because its optional and should be decided upon actual service or "we will provide you bad service or tamper with your food" which is extortion.
But what you are really saying is "I dont give a fuck - I make more money this way hence why i wouldnt want a minimum wage because gasp i could end up with less so instead i will fool, extort or guilt trip people into providing me a significant salary for doing a menial task"

[NYC17]

Im not whining. Im asking why i should tip. The answer seems to be "because its the norm" which is a piss poor reason because its optional and should be decided upon actual service or "we will provide you bad service or tamper with your food" which is extortion.
But what you are really saying is "I dont give a fuck - I make more money this way hence why i wouldnt want a minimum wage because gasp i could end up with less so instead i will fool, extort or guilt trip people into providing me a significant salary for doing a menial task"

I don't make money serving because I stopped doing that job in 2009. I'm giving you the realities of the industry in the U.S. Deal with it, or don't. Your thoughts on it aren't really that interesting.

[Catta]

I don't make money serving because I stopped doing that job in 2009. I'm giving you the realities of the industry in the U.S. Deal with it, or don't. Your thoughts on it aren't really that interesting.

You having stopped evidently doesnt stop you from making the case. I find it thought provoking that you do nothing to repudiate what i just said.

[NYC17]

You having stopped evidently doesnt stop you from making the case. I find it thought provoking that you do nothing to repudiate what i just said.

It's been repudiated by multiple people, to you specifically on various pages throughout this thread. It's become a circular argument, due to the fact that you don't accept the realities of the industry in the U.S. You're entitled to not accept it, but it doesn't mean anything beyond you aren't trying to have a discussion as much as you are trying to reinforce your own predetermined stance.

I wish I could say that I find it interesting that you're so concerned with tipping since you stated it doesn't factor in to your life, but it's just weird.

[Tinykong]

There have been multiple people in this thread who have discussed their experience, but since you don't same to read much of anything beyond your own bullshit, it's understandable how you may have missed it.

Also, is "spending time" on a message board an actual thing? I was under the impression you could post at will, especially when it takes very little effort provide a counterargument to someone as uninformed as yourself.

Considering you have almost 20 posts per day...

Yeah, I'd say you spend a lot of time here. You're the biggest attention whore on these forums, so it comes as no surprise.

[NYC17]

Considering you have almost 20 posts per day...

Yeah, I'd say you spend a lot of time here. You're the biggest attention whore on these forums, so it comes as no surprise.

Since most of my posts the past few days consisted of the back and forth with you, are you sure you really want to go down this road? It takes such little effort to counter your bullshit, I'd hardly even call it "time spent".

[Tinykong]

Since most of my posts the past few days consisted of the back and forth with you, are you sure you really want to go down this road? It takes such little effort to counter your bullshit, I'd hardly even call it "time spent"

You've pointed out that you "stopped" serving in 2009 half a dozen times. Either you have the memory of a dog, or your an attention whore who likes to toot his own horn.

Horn tooting sounds reasonable, given:

Years.

[Monkeybrains]

Considering you have almost 20 posts per day...

Yeah, I'd say you spend a lot of time here. You're the biggest attention whore on these forums, so it comes as no surprise.

Says the guy who has posted 58 times today on various forums in a span of just 6.5 hours? And has over 6.3k posts to his name?

Pot...meet Kettle. Irony at its best!

[Tinykong]

Says the guy who has posted 58 times today on various forums in a span of just 6.5 hours? And has over 6.3k posts to his name?

Pot...meet Kettle. Irony at its best!

And has been a member of these forums for almost 4 years? Yeah, you got me.

Your fan boys are here NYC17, time to post a few zingers so they can gush over you.

[NYC17]

You've pointed out that you "stopped" serving in 2009 half a dozen times. Either you have the memory of a dog, or your an attention whore who likes to toot his own horn.

Horn tooting sounds reasonable, given:

And this means what to you?

- - - Updated - - -

And has been a member of these forums for almost 4 years? Yeah, you got me.

Your fan boys are here NYC17, time to post a few zingers so they can gush over you.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Haha. Man it's like you have no self awareness whatsoever.

[Tinykong]

And this means what to you?

That you like telling everyone how you don't wait tables.

[NYC17]

That you like telling everyone how you don't wait tables.

Oh, I absolutely hated waiting tables, but it was good money and the schedule worked perfectly with my college classes. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore for so many reasons. Do you think you're making a point here?

[anyaka21]

One thing worth noting...changing work conditions to the point it makes an employee want to quit or negatively alters their work environment is also illegal. It's called tangible employment action. It's illegal to suddenly start giving an employee the "bad" shifts just because you dislike them. Also, what's with the assumption that apparently everyone who works for a boss who breaks the law is working at a business going bankrupt? I mean, at that point, why did you even have that job in the first place? This goes back to an earlier post I made where one of your options to increase your quality of life is working at a better location. I'm sorry, but I don't feel sorry for you if you knowingly choose to work at a business that is slow and likely to go bankrupt. There's a reason you're not getting any or low tips.

yes and no. Changing someone's shifts isn't unheard of in the restaurant biz. I see it all the time, on busy nights, they put strong people in spots where the restaurant has the largest crowds. If you have a weak server you schedule them on non-busy shifts and in easy sections in the hope that they get better. If someone is a bad enough server that they can't handle fri-sun, by giving them the easy shifts in easy sections, it's not illegal, it's practical. They are not changing work conditions. It's not like they were hired to server and they scheduled them to be a host or in the dishroom.

[Tinykong]

Oh, I absolutely hated waiting tables, but it was good money and the schedule worked perfectly with my college classes. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore for so many reasons. Do you think you're making a point here?

Nope, I just like engaging you in another opportunity for you to attention whore, watching you reliably do it, and then see all the usual roadies come out of the wood work to give you bro-claps as you school everyone with your fallacies and wannabe intellectualisms.

It certainly makes the time go by quicker.

[anyaka21]

Excellent comparison.

You not wearing that shirt has zero impact to the fact that States' salary system is completely effed up. I'd rather pay that extra 20% of the food's price knowing that the workers get an OK salary. However, I will not go out of my way tipping for every single act just because the owner is cheap cunt who won't pay her workers an adequate sum.

That's simply immoral and pathetic; the tipping system tries to hit on people's consciences making them think that "Oh, if I don't now leave a tip then that poor fella's salary is lower."

It's completely unethical to try and lay down such a trap because the fucked up country does not have proper Unions for different professions.

no offense, but that is essentially what tipping is. If you do it the other way, where the 20% goes into the overall price, do you think that it will all go towards server pay? No, it's going to line the pocketbooks of the owners and managers.