Reason Dalaran does not show up is....WAT?!

[mallorea36]

What!? how does Dalaran showing up to bombard Orgrimmar from a long distance has to do with players "feeling that Dalaran defeated Garrosh?" so judging by this logic no lore character has to appear in SoO because players will feel like it was Varian,Vol'jin or Lorthemar who killed Garrosh (lorewise they do anyway.) and there should be no siege weaponry or NPC armies sorrounding Orgrimar because players should feel like they are defeating Garrosh by themselves and they don't do it because Orgimmar is f**** besieged by nearly every powerful faction within Horde/Alliance.

Performance issue? how does a mini version of Dalaran (a low model or a bitmap.) hinder a computer's performance? just say "it makes Alliance feel awesome and that's no a priority."

and lorewise Jaina is pretty much driven to see Garrosh fall. why on earth would she hold back when both sides need their best weapons to take Garrosh down???

It was said in an interview with either TradeChat or Jesse Cox that there were technical limitations to having Dalaran show up.

[Immitis]

Yeah yeah yeah, Blizzard is too busy making the game work so they don't have any time for the Alliance to look cool. They find plenty of time to make the Horde look cool, blowing up mountains and terraforming entire zones just so Horde players feel good about themselves, so this argument doesn't really have the intended effect, it's really just showing that Blizzard devs of all stripes work on the Horde first and then the Alliance get the remainder of time.

my main is alliance, ive played every quest in the game and not once did i ever feel like the alliance wasnt cool.

im sick of alliance like you who have no pride in their faction, you give us all a bad name and make us look like whiny brats who are never satisfied.

the ONLY thing the alliance needs is more active storyline instead of reactive, we dont need "better" storylines we dont need "cooler" storylines we dont need "new badarse" characters, we are cool, we have good storylines, and our characters ARE badarses.

[Togarox]

I still don't understand why the Alliance aren't happy with the story they're receiving.

Seriously. I don't think I'll ever understand.

The only way some players will be happy is if the horde were completely destroyed. But that will never happen so..

OT - Horde vs. Alliance had nothing to do with it. If it had, they would have never mentioned the fact that they had thought about adding Dalaran to the raid in the first place. Not including Dalaran isn't horde favoritism. Adding Dalaran and then using the Goblin missile at Bilgewater Harbor to blow it up is horde favoritism. They also mentioned why they felt that this way. In Cataclysm many players felt that Thrall was the one doing the work and that they were just tagging along. Blizzard didn't want that same feeling to occur in Orgrimmar.

[Aschark]

I still don't understand why the Alliance aren't happy with the story they're receiving.

Seriously. I don't think I'll ever understand.

No one ever will.

[Azax]

What!? how does Dalaran showing up to bombard Orgrimmar from a long distance has to do with players "feeling that Dalaran defeated Garrosh?" so judging by this logic no lore character has to appear in SoO because players will feel like it was Varian,Vol'jin or Lorthemar who killed Garrosh (lorewise they do anyway.) and there should be no siege weaponry or NPC armies sorrounding Orgrimar because players should feel like they are defeating Garrosh by themselves and they don't do it because Orgimmar is f**** besieged by nearly every powerful faction within Horde/Alliance.

Performance issue? how does a mini version of Dalaran (a low model or a bitmap.) hinder a computer's performance? just say "it makes Alliance feel awesome and that's no a priority."

and lorewise Jaina is pretty much driven to see Garrosh fall. why on earth would she hold back when both sides need their best weapons to take Garrosh down???

Agree with all of this, total cop out they wont be using dalaran.... i think it would have been one of the coolest things iv ever seen in wow :/

[Nadiru]

I'm fairly happy with the way things went for us. It was fun defending Anduin and everything. I liked the Isle of THunder storyline (for both Horde and Alliance; <3 Lor'themar). I felt kinda shitty during the Dalaran story - but that's war, and as as person who role plays various warriors, I understand that.

YOU people are the ones who are Alliance biased. Anything the ALliance gets is shot down as "shitty content" and every tiny piece the Horde gets end up being yelled about. Seriously, we can't go one fucking day without you going, "BLIZZARD IS BIASED!" "THIS IS A HORDE GAME!" etc.

Seriously, sit down, shut the fuck up, and THINK about WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PATCH FIVE POINT FUCKING FOUR. No? Let me spell it out for you in big ass letters, because apparently you;re all daft.

WE GET TO SACK ORGRIMMAR.

Seriously? Even THAT'S NOT enough for you? We invade their CAPITAL, destroy their ENTIRE FUCKING MILITARY, and KILL THEIR BLOODY LEADER. Who gives a damn if we leave afterwords - it's a two faction game, we can't have everything.

It's the bloody daft bigots like you who give us Alliance a bad name, all because you want EVERYTHING to be catered to your every whim (I'm looking at you, Mr. "Let's destroy half the Horde's starting zones, because it used to be an Alliance kingdom" - it it wasn't even the current Alliance's kingdom).

/rant.

When Orgrimmar being sacked has an effect on the storyline, I will concede the point. Until such a time as Org being sacked has actual impact on the storyline, it remains a raid, forever divorced from what's going on with the storyline. Now, to your credit I expect that Org being sacked WILL have some impact on the storyline, but we are not even close to there yet, and with Varian supposedly sacking Orgrimmar and then walking out without making any demands on Horde-captured territory under Garrosh (the guy we kill, in case you've forgotten,) things are not looking like the Alliance kicking ass and taking names, it looks like a raid instance that will have no impact on the status quo.

Alliance players bitch about shitty content because the content is not portrayed, or just straight up ignores established lore about the Alliance. In lore the Alliance should have this nigh-unstoppable force of Dwarves because the Dwarves haven't been involved in a major conflict in WoW since...ever, actually! But we're too busy having half-written palace intrigue plots. Night Elves know every leaf and twig of Ashenvale, going there as the Horde ought to be like Orc Vietnam, but instead the Horde march in, captures Astranaar, starts chopping down trees and nobody even bats an eyelash at it. These are defenders of the forest that made Grom Hellscream damn near shit himself in awe over. Half the Alliance races are so unobtrusive in-game they're basically textures, and you have the gall to call them biased and idiots?

[Frozenbeef]

I would have liked to see what dalaran is capable of tbh

[Deleted]

I still don't understand why the Alliance aren't happy with the story they're receiving.

It's not the Alliance. It's a vocal minority of players that use their "faction" as a personal kingdom and ideals, many going against what that faction really is about. And when the story doesn't going like they want ("they" is very subjective, each one gives you a different idea of what should be), cries and rages against the established story.

Calling them "Alliance" is actually insulting to all those that play Alliance characters, like me. But I know that wasn't your point.

[wych]

The only way some players will be happy is if the horde were completely destroyed. But that will never happen so..

OT - Horde vs. Alliance had nothing to do with it. If it had, they would have never mentioned the fact that they had thought about adding Dalaran to the raid in the first place. Not including Dalaran isn't horde favoritism. Adding Dalaran and then using the Goblin missile at Bilgewater Harbor to blow it up is horde favoritism. They also mentioned why they felt that this way. In Cataclysm many players felt that Thrall was the one doing the work and that they were just tagging along. Blizzard didn't want that same feeling to occur in Orgrimmar.

No this is not it.

It's not about winning or losing, it's about an interesting and coherent story told through the game.

Most of the alliance races and leaders have no personality and have done NOTHING since their inclusion into the game.

5.3 is the perfect example, some bullshit robo kitty taking a couple plans off the desk and then a shit ton of exposition via Vol'Jin and that other troll lady.

The alliance story at a lot of points is quite simply poorly thought out, badly portrayed and often implied or left unfished as opposed to being experienced.

If horde players want to take this as some sort of personal attack, then so be it, but if people think there's genuinely a massive difference between people who play horde or alliance in terms of attitude to the world and personality, they're deluded.

[Deleted]

the underlined. We need more Tyrande and Sentinels mercilessly stomping the crap out of everything in their path too. And Shandris for good measure. Alliance ass-kicking more visible in game, cause there's a lot of it in books.

This. The Alliance do have story issues, but the faction war representation is not one of them.

[Redpanda]

I dont know about you guys but I dont want dalaran stealing my glory. The horde 'supposedly' has a problem with the warchief. It will weigh heavy on my heart but it will be player hands that handles it dont want no scumbag npc stealing my thunder GTFO

[Jessicka]

Bit off-topic, but it bothers me that they'd consider using Dalaran as some kind of flying death ship. It's supposed to be a place of magical learning, and has a large civilian population and a lot of completely immartial businesses. >.<

Tell that to Aethas.

[Hitei]

WE GET TO SACK ORGRIMMAR.

Seriously? Even THAT'S NOT enough for you? We invade their CAPITAL, destroy their ENTIRE FUCKING MILITARY, and KILL THEIR BLOODY LEADER. Who gives a damn if we leave afterwords - it's a two faction game, we can't have everything. /rant.

I really, really don't understand why people keep saying this.

Here, let me help you a bit.

We invade their CAPITAL

No. We HELP the HORDE retake THEIR CAPITAL.

destroy their ENTIRE FUCKING MILITARY

No. We HELP the HORDE destroy THEIR ENEMIES.

and KILL THEIR BLOODY LEADER.

No. We DETHRONE the leader the Horde is REBELLING AGAINST.


That is why people complain about it. We aren't "sacking" Orgrimmar. We aren't killing the Horde leader, we are helping the Horde win their own civil war and regain their footing.

This is like if VanCleef and the Defias took over stormwind, and the Horde came into Stormwind, ignored all the regular citizens, shops, buildings, etc. Killed the Defias and VanCleef for us, and then left. Do you see the difference between that and actually sacking a city and killing the Horde leader? We are no more "winning" against the Horde than we did when we cleared the apothecaries out of Undercity. We aren't looting shops, we aren't forcing the OTHER Horde races (Looking at you Forsaken) to pay for all the horrible crap they've done. We are showing up to help the Horde retake their own city, and then leaving after giving them back power.

[Deleted]

I don't know, but the "serious performance issues" was enough for me.

[Totle]

Why would the Alliance send in its soldiers to die if they can just sit in their floating city and bombard Ogrimmar.

There's no risk of life, no chance for heroics, and after we lay waste to the city, we can send in a team to make sure Garrosh is dead. And if he isn't... we can just call in an air strike or more orbital bombardments.

Explain how this would incorporate player involvement/feel heroic in any sense?

[KWC3587]

Cheap excuse since we know that either Thrall or Varian are going to step in once we have Garrosh all but dead, strike the deathblow and then turn to us and go: "LOL, kill steal for the win!" With the official lore giving them credit for the kill. Pretty much they didn't want to dedicate the resources to doing it so they didn't. There, that wasn't complicated at all.

[Hitei]

Why would the Alliance send in its soldiers to die if they can just sit in their floating city and bombard Ogrimmar.

There's no risk of life, no chance for heroics, and after we lay waste to the city, we can send in a team to make sure Garrosh is dead. And if he isn't... we can just call in an air strike or more orbital bombardments.

Explain how this would incorporate player involvement/feel heroic in any sense?

The bigger question is why Jaina didn't just stop being a pansy and wipe the city out with the tidal wave to begin with.

[Deleted]

I'm fairly happy with the way things went for us. It was fun defending Anduin and everything. I liked the Isle of THunder storyline (for both Horde and Alliance; <3 Lor'themar). I felt kinda shitty during the Dalaran story - but that's war, and as as person who role plays various warriors, I understand that.

YOU people are the ones who are Alliance biased. Anything the ALliance gets is shot down as "shitty content" and every tiny piece the Horde gets end up being yelled about. Seriously, we can't go one fucking day without you going, "BLIZZARD IS BIASED!" "THIS IS A HORDE GAME!" etc.

Seriously, sit down, shut the fuck up, and THINK about WHAT WE'RE DOING IN PATCH FIVE POINT FUCKING FOUR. No? Let me spell it out for you in big ass letters, because apparently you;re all daft.

WE GET TO SACK ORGRIMMAR.

Seriously? Even THAT'S NOT enough for you? We invade their CAPITAL, destroy their ENTIRE FUCKING MILITARY, and KILL THEIR BLOODY LEADER. Who gives a damn if we leave afterwords - it's a two faction game, we can't have everything.

It's the bloody daft bigots like you who give us Alliance a bad name, all because you want EVERYTHING to be catered to your every whim (I'm looking at you, Mr. "Let's destroy half the Horde's starting zones, because it used to be an Alliance kingdom" - it it wasn't even the current Alliance's kingdom).

/rant.

For me (as somehow who plays both factions but mostly Horde) what would be enough is if there is a logical ending to the SoO. I'm not talking about us tearing the city down, I'm talking about Alliance occupation of Orgrimmar up until 6.0, Varian picking the next Warchief, the Alliance demanding withdrawals of Horde forces in Ashenvale and southern Lordaeron and then actually having this represented in game at some point. That'd be great.

And then in Xpac 5, I want it to be acknowledged that the Horde have just suffered a major blow, and for it to be the Alliance who are leading the fight against evil, with Alliance based lore characters (Turalyon, Alleria, Illidan) making a comeback. This still provides plenty of good story for the Horde as the New Warchief will have to deal with piecing together his shattered faction and must work with the Alliance.

[Deleted]

I really, really don't understand why people keep saying this.

Here, let me help you a bit.



No. We HELP the HORDE retake THEIR CAPITAL.



No. We HELP the HORDE destroy THEIR ENEMIES.



No. We DETHRONE the leader the Horde is REBELLING AGAINST.


That is why people complain about it. We aren't "sacking" Orgrimmar. We aren't killing the Horde leader, we are helping the Horde win their own civil war and regain their footing.

This is like if VanCleef and the Defias took over stormwind, and the Horde came into Stormwind, ignored all the regular citizens, shops, buildings, etc. Killed the Defias and VanCleef for us, and then left. Do you see the difference between that and actually sacking a city and killing the Horde leader? We are no more "winning" against the Horde than we did when we cleared the apothecaries out of Undercity. We aren't looting shops, we aren't forcing the OTHER Horde races (Looking at you Forsaken) to pay for all the horrible crap they've done. We are showing up to help the Horde retake their own city, and then leaving after giving them back power.

So, your point is based on semantics? The Alliance does invade the Horde's capital, it does destroy its military forces and it does dethrone its leader. It's a joint operation with the Rebels because both parts are interested on doing it so.

- - - Updated - - -

The bigger question is why Jaina didn't just stop being a pansy and wipe the city out with the tidal wave to begin with.

It wouldn't stop the guy with the Old God's power and it kill more Theramore civilians.

[Kalx]

Come to think of, if we really are the ones who give Garrosh the killing blow, it will be the first time in a long long time that we'll do it ourselves. Since TBC, other characters were the reason of a "final boss" dying.

Maiev vs Illidan, Anveena and Kalec vs Kil'jaeden, Tirion Fordring and the spirits from Frostmourne vs Arthas, Thrall vs Deathwing...

The only "final boss" we "killed" was Kel'thuzad in vanilla, and we didn't even kill it for real, considering he came back in wrath