Blizzard's Bad Villains

[chrisisvacant]

Which is undeniable. That's not at all what Trassk was saying. What he was saying still stand to be true: despite how much better MoP's story telling is than previous expansions, it's still completely and utterly shit compared to Warcraft III.

Opinions are like assholes. Your opinion is not fact.

[Eats Compost]

Garrosh isn't a static character. Amazing concept.

He also happens to have no bridging between his two states, which is what's so horrendous about it. There's no development. He's one thing, and then he's suddenly something radically different with no exploration into or explanation of how or why. It's not good storytelling at all.

[Flaks]

Opinions are like assholes. Your opinion is not fact.

It's not an opinion. I'll gladly admit if it is. The quality of storytelling in Warcraft III by it's very nature of being an RTS puts it above that of WoW, an MMO where there's little linearity and thus a lot of random and unnecessary branching of story just to push the players into different threads. But Blizzard somehow has managed to go above and beyond that and butchered every single characterization of characters without ANY transitions between Warcraft III and now.

I feel like you just responded to me because you wanted to use that line. If you played Warcraft III you would know what I'm talking about.

[Z3ROR]

Blizzard needed to create some contrast to slam with a huge villain next expansion.

[Voidgazer]

I wasn't defending Blizzard's writing, but the omnicidal villains in general. I kinda like those.

Deathwing

Well, there's not much of actual Deathwing left in Cata. He's just a puppet of N'Zoth by that point. So it's explainable.

The Last of Us or Bioshock: Infinite or any Bioware title

Hope you're not being serious...

[Gamevizier]

The problem with WoW's villians is that they turn "insane" in order to become a villian. and go all like "me smash" "burn them all" "bow to my will or die" sort of crazy before we -the good guys- and other (good) powerful entities hold our hands together and shoot rainbows out of our asses and take the bad guy down.

yay!

--- but who said a villian has to be a deranged monster in order to be a villian? a mad villian bent on world destruction is the shallowest villian possible, worse than that is a deep character turned to a shallow villian.

and even when he becomes a villian, who says every villian should be killable? we have lots of stories in which villians never die (or rarely die). they can run away when we defeat them and vow revenge. they dont have to DIE.

take Illidan, he was locked in a love triangle with his brother and Tyrande. he helps the night elves defeat the demons but he is not without flaws. he tries to create another well of eternity but fails and is imprisoned for thousands of years. he is rescued by his love and helps the night elves AGAIN, in the end he is labeled a monster and again the elves banish him... Kil'Jaeden makes a deal with him : in exchange for his life he will defeat the lich king (who betrayed the demon lords). he fails to do so and flees to the black citadel.

AND THEN HE TURNS INSANE AND WE KILL HIM.

what sort of character development is this? a person who is so clinging to life and does his best to survive does not suddently go insane and nuts. but in order to please us players they did it, they didn't even make Maiev imprison him again...they killed him.

it's a shallow story, people may like the raid but over 5 months they all forget this villian. which makes warcraft 3 players such as myself ask this question :

why are warcraft 3 heroes so memorable? and why is blizzard ruining those characters in WoW?

[Wildmoon]

The problem with WoW's villians is that they turn "insane" in order to become a villian. and go all like "me smash" "burn them all" "bow to my will or die" sort of crazy before we -the good guys- and other (good) powerful entities hold our hands together and shoot rainbows out of our asses and take the bad guy down.

yay!

--- but who said a villian has to be a deranged monster in order to be a villian? a mad villian bent on world destruction is the shallowest villian possible, worse than that is a deep character turned to a shallow villian.

and even when he becomes a villian, who says every villian should be killable? we have lots of stories in which villians never die (or rarely die). they can run away when we defeat them and vow revenge. they dont have to DIE.

take Illidan, he was locked in a love triangle with his brother and Tyrande. he helps the night elves defeat the demons but he is not without flaws. he tries to create another well of eternity but fails and is imprisoned for thousands of years. he is rescued by his love and helps the night elves AGAIN, in the end he is labeled a monster and again the elves banish him... Kil'Jaeden makes a deal with him : in exchange for his life he will defeat the lich king (who betrayed the demon lords). he fails to do so and flees to the black citadel.

AND THEN HE TURNS INSANE AND WE KILL HIM.

what sort of character development is this? a person who is so clinging to life and does his best to survive does not suddently go insane and nuts. but in order to please us players they did it, they didn't even make Maiev imprison him again...they killed him.

it's a shallow story, people may like the raid but over 5 months they all forget this villian. which makes warcraft 3 players such as myself ask this question :

why are warcraft 3 heroes so memorable? and why is blizzard ruining those characters in WoW?

Telling story in RTS game is much eaiser than in MMORPG. You could do a lot more impactful thing in RTS game than MMO. Illidan kinda went insane because he couldn't believe that he lost to Arthas. He was overwhelming him and got overconfident then somehow Arthas sliced through his chest. Illidan may also not be dead.

[PolarVargen]

I think more people would enjoy Garrosh, illidan, deathwing etc if they actually read the warcraft novels. http://www.wowwiki.com/Story_guide

[Gamevizier]

Telling story in RTS game is much eaiser than in MMORPG. You could do a lot more impactful thing in RTS game than MMO. Illidan kinda went insane because he couldn't believe that he lost to Arthas. He was overwhelming him and got overconfident then somehow Arthas sliced through his chest. Illidan may also not be dead.

true to some point. in both WoW and Warcraft 3 we, the player, do not have avatars that impact the lore. lore advances through lore characters and we are there to witness them.

sure WoW's focus has to be on us, the player, but in no way should we be allowed to KILL very important characters...and if we do, we should not do it at such rate. (we killed Illidan, Vashj, Kael'Thas.) heck I still don't get why Kael'Thas turned into such an asshole in BC, his character was totally different in W3. we can say the same for Illidan (though he was not totally a good guy.)

[Deleted]

The story team have a new opportunity with the introduction of scenarios. A story can be told with more personalisation within an instanced quest or set of quests. There can be voice work, in game cinematics and changes to the world (that can be coupled with improving phasing technology) that can allow narrative aspects of the game to have the advantages of a single player experience.

Because of this, I am expecting the quality of the story in WoW to drastically improve in the next expansion as they mature these systems further.