[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Jonky]

I have a choice between two boots:

1131 Haste/1115 Mastery + 60 Mastery blue socket bonus (which I won't get)
1199 Haste/1001 Hit + 60 Mastery red socket bonus

I guess the real question here is: Should I just avoid hit/exp on gear when possible and just reforge into it? Or is the extra mastery not worth it?

[Arathirius]

Try a quick reforge calc and see what you can optimize your hit with better. Not sure what your gear is, but I would lean towards saying the haste/hit boots would give you better reforge options. But just put in your stat weights and use reforgelite or AMR to see what you can optimize best with

[Totaltotemic]

I have a choice between two boots:

1131 Haste/1115 Mastery + 60 Mastery blue socket bonus (which I won't get)
1199 Haste/1001 Hit + 60 Mastery red socket bonus

I guess the real question here is: Should I just avoid hit/exp on gear when possible and just reforge into it? Or is the extra mastery not worth it?

The goal is to avoid mastery whenever possible. If that means taking Exp or Hit instead, you do it as long as you're not putting yourself over cap with no way to get back under. The only time hit/exp specifically becomes a problem is if it's on the same piece as mastery because then you wouldn't be able to reforge out of both. I can't think of any off the top of my head but the only pieces that would be "oh god no please don't use that" would be mastery/hit or mastery/expertise gear. Mastery/crit or mastery/haste isn't as good as Crit/haste, Crit/hit, Crit/Exp, haste/hit, or haste/exp, but it's still not as bad as mastery/hit or mastery/exp.

[Jonky]

The goal is to avoid mastery whenever possible. If that means taking Exp or Hit instead, you do it as long as you're not putting yourself over cap with no way to get back under. The only time hit/exp specifically becomes a problem is if it's on the same piece as mastery because then you wouldn't be able to reforge out of both. I can't think of any off the top of my head but the only pieces that would be "oh god no please don't use that" would be mastery/hit or mastery/expertise gear. Mastery/crit or mastery/haste isn't as good as Crit/haste, Crit/hit, Crit/Exp, haste/hit, or haste/exp, but it's still not as bad as mastery/hit or mastery/exp.

Thanks Total, you give a lot of great advice.

What do you think about the difference between 10k and 12k haste? Just get as much as possible while keeping agility gems? Or should I push it all the way to 12k? Maybe even drop a little lower for some more crit? Or am I overthinking this and it doesn't even matter? lol

[Totaltotemic]

Thanks Total, you give a lot of great advice.

What do you think about the difference between 10k and 12k haste? Just get as much as possible while keeping agility gems? Or should I push it all the way to 12k? Maybe even drop a little lower for some more crit? Or am I overthinking this and it doesn't even matter? lol

I tend to err on the high side (12-13k) simply because that 11-12k mark is for single target fights that enable FoF and heroic Siegecrafter and Paragons both pretty much disallow FoF entirely and I healed Thok and Spoils before that is an AoEfest.

10k haste is like an absolute floor, no fight really prevents you from using that much (except perhaps Siegecrafter belts butt hat's a totally unique scenario with a ton of variables) and fights that require RJW can go up to a 20k cap, while non-FoF fights are suitable around 14k. I say 11-12k as a good value for others because it's low enough to not be awful if you have 100+ms or a simply slow reaction time, but it's high enough to meet the absolute minimum. At the end of the day though, the difference between 12k haste/12k crit and 10k haste/14k crit is extremely small, like less than 1%.

I wouldn't say someone is wrong as long as their haste is between 10 and 14k and they're prioritizing crit over mastery with Agi gems matched for sockets. Whether you put 2-3k of your 30k secondary stats into haste or crit isn't a big deal because different fights have different optimal haste levels anyways.

[Deleted]

Hey! Should I use instant Synapse Springs if it's available or wait for trinket procs + tigereye brew?

[Dolzzy]

people have different opinions what to macro it into. I got it macro'd into my jab

[Jonky]

Hey! Should I use instant Synapse Springs if it's available or wait for trinket procs + tigereye brew?

I say macro it into TeB, you'll get more benefit than to just waste it during a period of low damage.

[Totaltotemic]

Randomly using Synapse Strings in the middle of the rotation just because it's off cooldown will almost assuredly cost more DPS than waiting until the next time you'd use TEB. Unless you'd be going 20+ seconds until the next TEB, the cooldown time isn't wasted at all if you just macro it into TEB.

[Treeskee]

I see so many monks using SEF on single target, so I have to ask: Am I clueless or are they?!

[Steikke]

I see so many monks using SEF on single target, so I have to ask: Am I clueless or are they?!

They are clueless.

[Deleted]

Hey all, would like some feedback.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Chyou/simple
I'm currently a WW on 11/14 HC, I've always preffered ascension over Chi brew, and I've always maintained around 11k haste before focusing on crit. (Mainly because I love the more "exciting and stressy" playstyle that comes along with having more energy regen)
I've always gotten competitive results with this set up, and whenever I switch to using chi brew, or going max crit at the cost of lower haste I end up doing the same dps at best, usually lower.
I guess my question is, do I need to stop being lazy and put effort into properly using Chi Brew, or is the difference between them not big enough to justify moving away from your preffered playstyle?

[Totaltotemic]

When you start working on heroic Paragons and Garrosh or if you're doing belts for Siegecrafter, you're really going to need the 2-3% boost from Chi Brew s well as adjusting your stats (2.5% over hit cap really means you should consider wearing even a normal mode piece of gear because you're wasting 900 secondary stats). Pure gear trivializes everything before Siegecrafter, but after that there's very little improvement you can get from item levels and you'll need to change what you're doing.

[Deleted]

Hey all, would like some feedback.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...t/Chyou/simple
I'm currently a WW on 11/14 HC, I've always preffered ascension over Chi brew, and I've always maintained around 11k haste before focusing on crit. (Mainly because I love the more "exciting and stressy" playstyle that comes along with having more energy regen)
I've always gotten competitive results with this set up, and whenever I switch to using chi brew, or going max crit at the cost of lower haste I end up doing the same dps at best, usually lower.
I guess my question is, do I need to stop being lazy and put effort into properly using Chi Brew, or is the difference between them not big enough to justify moving away from your preffered playstyle?

I had this problem too. But once i decided that i really want that 2-3% i changed to chi brew and instantly noticed that it is better and i made more dps.
It felt bad to leave ascension as that 5 chi + regen was just tits.
I recommend u take brew

[Deleted]

When you start working on heroic Paragons and Garrosh or if you're doing belts for Siegecrafter, you're really going to need the 2-3% boost from Chi Brew s well as adjusting your stats (2.5% over hit cap really means you should consider wearing even a normal mode piece of gear because you're wasting 900 secondary stats). Pure gear trivializes everything before Siegecrafter, but after that there's very little improvement you can get from item levels and you'll need to change what you're doing.

Alright, I'll give it a go, my current thinking with the excess hit was that it might be offset by the higher agility on heroic gear, (doesn't help that I've not seen a single heroic one hander drop besides the damn fists -_-)

Anyways, thanks for the input <3

[Moozhe]

Let's talk Fists of Fury changes. I saw there was some chatter on Twitter with Celestalon, and Totaltotemic made a blog post about it. But there doesn't seem to be a consensus.

There are three separate problems -- the fact that it doesn't do enough damage to be worth using if you miss 1 tick for any reason, or if you energy cap or delay RSK. The fact that the meteor effect makes it unusable on many fights. And the fact that rooted channel makes it hard to use on movement fights.

I feel like the damage doesn't need a large buff, a 20% buff would probably be enough to make us want to use it on CD in a RSK > FoF style priority. It's the usability that needs to change. So how do we do that?

Rooting:

I think one of the most common solutions I've seen proposed is a major glyph to remove the stun component but allow casting while moving. The only problem is that we would probably use the glyph all the time which goes against the spirit of glyphs. We wouldn't have to use it on fights that don't have any movement, but those are few and far between. Right now I like the fact that none of our major glyphs are 100% mandatory.

There's one other problem with this solution that I don't think the devs talk about. Fists of Fury is a unique character animation and it doesn't really work with moving and jumping, unlike other animations such as Bladestorm. For this reason, I feel like the devs really, really don't want us to move while using FoF. At the very least it would require reworking the animation so that it looks somewhat natural. Do you think this can be done? Currently the monk leans forward and kneels, a pose that wouldn't work running or mid-air. The rooting is also iconic and thematic. The monk braces his posture and plants his feet firmly in the ground for maximum leverage. He doesn't run around flailing his arms wildly like a lunatic. These types of details actually matter a lot to Blizzard.

So in summary, having a near-mandatory glyph and having a silly looking animation make the whole moving while channeling solution not likely to be implemented soon.

Solution Idea: What if the channel time simply scaled better with haste? I haven't tested how it scales currently, but the default 4 second cast time seems to be reduced to the 3.0-3.5 second range with gear. What if we could get the channel time down to 2 seconds or so? Most of our problems -- energy capping, delaying RSK, having to move for raid mechanics, would be mitigated significantly. It would be interesting because haste could be our best stat in movement fights (even better than Agility for gemming), whereas we might want less haste if there's less movement.

I'll make a follow up post regarding the meteor effect.

[Spicycurry]

I would be fine with a glyph that removed the meteor effect, removed the stun and made it full damage to all dudes in the cone.

edit: they would have to remove the whole no damage from clones deal though.

[Moozhe]

(cont'd.)

Meteor Damage Split:

Blizzard decided that the damage from Fists of Fury should be split, most likely simply because the damage is actually very high for a single ability. I think this was probably for one or both of two reasons, PVE and PVP:

PVE - Overpowered AOE burst damage. If the damage didn't split, you could do massive damage to large groups of enemies. I think the solution to this is simple in theory -- give it an AOE damage cap. All area of effect spells have a global 20 target damage cap, where if you use an AOE on 20 targets you hit all 20 targets for full damage, but if you use an AOE against 40 targets you hit all 40 targets for half damage. In the case of Fists of Fury it would need to have an aggressively lower cap. Something like 3-5 targets. This way we can use Fists of Fury on fights like Paragons of the Klaxxi, and we can also use it for AOE. But it shouldn't be overpowered. If we use it on 20 targets it will do damage as if we used it on 3-5 targets. I think that it would mix our AOE rotation up a bit. Just like RSK, we will want to use it in between SCK/RJW as a chi dump.

PVP - Again, this might be perceived as an overpowered cleave ability if it isn't a meteor. But if that's the case then I really think that just needs to be re-evaluated. Is it really OP? Monks were given Storm, Earth, and Fire for cleave, but in my experience this is not very useful in arena or RBGs. Splash cleave from other players kill them about as fast as you can cast them. So if Fists of Fury were to actually cleave then it would really be our only cleave in PVP. I think it would be like a mini-Bladestorm. Bladestorm does a lot more damage, and prevents loss of control of your character. FoF would have about half the cooldown, deal less damage, and can be interrupted with anything causes loss of control. And it roots us. Perhaps the only change that I think should be made is that if they trinket the initial stun it should not be reapplied. Like Bladestorm, Fists of Fury will be something that players watch for and when they see it they know to back off for a few seconds. I think it would give monks a small niche where we would actually be a decent counter to melee cleave teams.

- - - Updated - - -

I would be fine with a glyph that removed the meteor effect, removed the stun and made it full damage to all dudes in the cone.

Again, that's a mandatory glyph you just described. Not really a solution.

[Spicycurry]

The problem with the haste idea is that it would become too much damage in too little of a time frame for pvp.

[Moozhe]

The problem with the haste idea is that it would become too much damage in too little of a time frame for pvp.

I don't think so. Shaving an extra 0.5 to 1 second off a channel is not really a big change. Also keep in mind PVP gear can't reach the amount of secondary stats you get in PVE gear. For example right now the average full Grievous Windwalker has around 5-6k haste whereas in PVE you can easily reach 2-3x that. Assuming that right now you can probably reach a 3.5 second FoF in PVP gear, even a 200% scaling buff would only reduce it by a further 0.5 seconds or so. Is ~0.5 seconds really breaking?